MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #7 *Arrest*

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Of course not. But when they went to the location where it pinged, there was nothing. Just because the media was set up elsewhere doesn't mean someone didn't check the area. When they questioned the restaurant folks early on officers would have been looking around the area where the ping was. But perhaps it was obvious it wasn't located there anymore. That pavement and roadway near the restaurant are vast. Depending on precisely where the ping showed (I am sure they walked to this EXACT location) the phone, there may have been no good areas to hide it, and the vicinity could have been checked quickly. At that point, I think they were probably more focused on finding her though.
I'd guess that if he threw the phone, he threw it in the woods across the street from the Mountain Barn, I doubt he threw it in the parking lot if he was heading south.
Not sure how it would be obvious that early in the game that her phone wasn't along side the road in the woods. I see a major search.
 
Of course that's true. But the timing of the aunt's knowledge of the phone location and field test does point toward a liklihood that the phone was indeed located near the mountain barn at 2:25. IMO.
True, but again,
the trees are not there and that may have thrown your forensics off. Big difference,don't you think?
 
It is very difficult to figure out anything and definetly not for certain without facts and evidence from what they have investigated. There is too little known in this case.
I agree, we are discussing the possibilities, that's all. It's anyones guess.
 
I'd guess that if he threw the phone, he threw it in the woods across the street from the Mountain Barn, I doubt he threw it in the parking lot if he was heading south.
Not sure how it would be obvious that early in the game that her phone wasn't along side the road in the woods. I see a major search.

I don't think he discarded the phone at that location, I think it was merely turned off at that location. Once off, it can't be tracked. So it was "safe" for him to have it after it was turned off. If he's AT ALL tech savvy as many here believe, he would know this to be true.
 
It is very difficult to figure out anything and definetly not for certain without facts and evidence from what they have investigated. There is too little known in this case.

Agree. Has the COD even been released ? I'm wondering if LE has someone they are looking at. jmo
 
Yes, but we have no evidence that her phone was near the Mountain Barn, If you read the link I posted, there is evidence that heavy tree cover most likely will throw a location off. Agree?
I am just discussing the topic. I already have my theory, and as I said, I am open to anything. It doesn't matter if I am right or wrong, I'd like to see the guy caught.
Help me lean towards LE thinking her phone was at the Mountain Barn, and explain why LE never searched that area?
If he wanted to throw off LE, explain why he lit the fire if he was that concerned?
If you think she drove out of town to get a drink, can you think why anyone would do that when the store is right down the road?
Valid questions to help piece the puzzle?

Throwing off LE isn't the main reason he took it, in my mind.
He took it either because he forgot he had it, or because he felt it might have his DNA and is the phone isn't all that flammable, or because he knew that once turned off, it was not an immediate risk for him to have it. But if this last circumstance were true, I think he would have shut it off at the CS. So I lean toward the other two scenarios.

As far as why she might drive to a different store, I know that for me, when I go out to get a coffee, sometimes it's not just about getting the coffee. It's about making an excuse for myself to leave the house and wander a bit. Maybe she just felt like going for a drive, or changing it up, if she had been to that store too many times lately.

On the tree cover, surely a summer test will be more representative, but I am not speaking from a perspective of no experience on this. I do a lot of metal detecting in the deep woods. I use old maps from the 17 & 1800s to locate old house sites that are no longer there. On my phone, I use a similar program to plot the old sites on a map before I go. Then head out, and I use my phone's GPS to locate the pre-plotted locations. This summer I did this for a week with a friend in Vermont. We hiked blindly, sometimes miles into the woods toward the dot I placed on the map. When we reached the spot, there was the old foundation, right where It should have been. These areas were significantly more remote than Princeton. What I am trying to say is that although there may at times be glitches and inaccuracies, I think we need to put a little more faith in the technology aspect of the case. I have very strong reason to believe that the phone was near mountain barn at 2:25pm.
 
Throwing off LE isn't the main reason he took it, in my mind.
He took it either because he forgot he had it, or because he felt it might have his DNA and is the phone isn't all that flammable, or because he knew that once turned off, it was not an immediate risk for him to have it. But if this last circumstance were true, I think he would have shut it off at the CS. So I lean toward the other two scenarios.

As far as why she might drive to a different store, I know that for me, when I go out to get a coffee, sometimes it's not just about getting the coffee. It's about making an excuse for myself to leave the house and wander a bit. Maybe she just felt like going for a drive, or changing it up, if she had been to that store too many times lately.

On the tree cover, surely a summer test will be more representative, but I am not speaking from a perspective of no experience on this. I do a lot of metal detecting in the deep woods. I use old maps from the 17 & 1800s to locate old house sites that are no longer there. On my phone, I use a similar program to plot the old sites on a map before I go. Then head out, and I use my phone's GPS to locate the pre-plotted locations. This summer I did this for a week with a friend in Vermont. We hiked blindly, sometimes miles into the woods toward the dot I placed on the map. When we reached the spot, there was the old foundation, right where It should have been. These areas were significantly more remote than Princeton. What I am trying to say is that although there may at times be glitches and inaccuracies, I think we need to put a little more faith in the technology aspect of the case. I have very strong reason to believe that the phone was near mountain barn at 2:25pm.

Where do you find your old maps at?
 
Agree. Has the COD even been released ? I'm wondering if LE has someone they are looking at. jmo


At the outset of the reporting about Vanessa's murder, strangulation was occasionally mentioned as the COD. I will try to locate any references to COD; in my experience with this case, that has been the only COD mentioned.

I pause, however, because Vanessa's murder and Katrina Vetrano's (in NY) were pretty much back to back. Due to both being murdered while jogging, and both being athletic, brunette, etc., media outlets, reporters and readers alike were understandably switching back and forth between the two stories, often overlapping case details. Since Karina was strangled, it is very possible that any reference to Vanessa's COD was misreported. After spending (way) too much time on WS since Missy Bever's murder last April, I have become familiar with various sources, reporters, and generally, how these types of cases "report." I am now better able to wade through some of the muck, at least, and also recognize how facts transmit just as unsuccessfully as in the "telephone game" I played as a child (and also have taught in the classroom as a lesson about gossip.)

Anyhow, I just want to acknowledge fellow sleuths for sharing ideas, spending copious amounts of time thinking about victims like Vanessa AND lending truly remarkable expertise to these cases. We are anything but armchair detectives. It can be hard to stick out one's neck with theories, but it's important that we do so. WS has to be a safe space for what may seem like "nutty" theories or fruitless efforts to those in our lives without similar interest. In my case, that means everyone, so WS is it for me. Otherwise, I am mocked for my interest and care for those who suffer incredible, unspeakable trauma at the hands of others. My particular interest area relates to women who are not only murdered just for being women, but are also re-victimized post-mortem with the public's blame and objectification.

Anyhow, I have noticed while watching a handful of cases that squabbling in a forum picks up 3-4 months after the murder or disappearance, particularly when new information is not forthcoming. I think we become frustrated in general, so we occasionally take it out on each other. Totally my opinion, anyway, for what it's worth...which lately, in general, feels like...

:notgood:
 
At the outset of the reporting about Vanessa's murder, strangulation was occasionally mentioned as the COD. I will try to locate any references to COD; in my experience with this case, that has been the only COD mentioned.

I pause, however, because Vanessa's murder and Katrina Vetrano's (in NY) were pretty much back to back. Due to both being murdered while jogging, and both being athletic, brunette, etc., media outlets, reporters and readers alike were understandably switching back and forth between the two stories, often overlapping case details. Since Karina was strangled, it is very possible that any reference to Vanessa's COD was misreported. After spending (way) too much time on WS since Missy Bever's murder last April, I have become familiar with various sources, reporters, and generally, how these types of cases "report." I am now better able to wade through some of the muck, at least, and also recognize how facts transmit just as unsuccessfully as in the "telephone game" I played as a child (and also have taught in the classroom as a lesson about gossip.)

Anyhow, I just want to acknowledge fellow sleuths for sharing ideas, spending copious amounts of time thinking about victims like Vanessa AND lending truly remarkable expertise to these cases. We are anything but armchair detectives. It can be hard to stick out one's neck with theories, but it's important that we do so. WS has to be a safe space for what may seem like "nutty" theories or fruitless efforts to those in our lives without similar interest. In my case, that means everyone, so WS is it for me. Otherwise, I am mocked for my interest and care for those who suffer incredible, unspeakable trauma at the hands of others. My particular interest area relates to women who are not only murdered just for being women, but are also re-victimized post-mortem with the public's blame and objectification.

Anyhow, I have noticed while watching a handful of cases that squabbling in a forum picks up 3-4 months after the murder or disappearance, particularly when new information is not forthcoming. I think we become frustrated in general, so we occasionally take it out on each other. Totally my opinion, anyway, for what it's worth...which lately, in general, feels like...

:notgood:

Enjoyed this post, informative and reflective. Thanks
 
If the phone was "near" the Mountain Barn" and LE thought so, maybe someone can answer this.
Why is it that with every news channel in Ma, swarming like bees on honey, so much that people in town started complaining because they wouldn't leave, and broadcasting every move, never once showed one video of LE searching anywhere close to the Mountain Barn? In fact, they never mentioned a search once in that area.
LE left and came back a few days later and MSN were all over them within minutes.
Not one picture of cruisers parked in the parking lot of the Mountain Barn, nor the light department. Think it's fair to say that phone was a top priority, and they would have searched that area with a fine toothed comb? I would have expected to see tens of cops searching not only the MB, but along Rt 31, and footage of that. Not a thing.

I'd be willing to bet on it that if the dumpster was due to be emptied, and it wasn't searched, there would have at least been a cruiser parked in front of it blocking the truck from doing so until it was searched.
Any guess to what was in the evidence bag? I think by the looks of the bag not bulging out, it it's fair to rule out her clothes, or a shoe, what else is left? I know a contact lens was mentioned, What's the chances of finding a clear contact lens a half inch in diameter in a forrest?

I know a contact lens was mentioned, What's the chances of finding a clear contact lens a half inch in diameter in a forrest?

Someone speculated about a possible contact lens. I drop a contact every few weeks that I simply cannot find in my own bedroom. They shrink and shrivel when dry. Unless a contact lens stuck to the body, LE has not located a contact lens in the woods. JMHO Unless the lens belonged to the killer, it affects the case not at all.

I have the feel that LEO in that entire area wants nothing more than to locate this killer and evidence linking him to the murder. They are leaving no stone unturned and tracking every lead. They are using every tool at their disposal. I must believe this, for it was my daughter, I would want them to move heaven and earth to find and prosecute her killer.
 
If the app is accurate within ten feet, and the road is 12 tops to the woods from the center, think LE would have overlooked it for a few feet, and said ah the hell with it, the phone isn't all that important?

think LE would have overlooked it for a few feet, and said ah the hell with it, the phone isn't all that important

I would disagree by saying that in today's IT world, VMs cell phone is of utmost importance b/c of the digital footprint, texts, emails, calls, both incoming and outgoing. I believe the ping from her phone at 2:25 occurred at the Mountain Barn vicinity. Surely LE does not give up so easily during a search for evidence. We do not know where VMs phone is or if LE has it or not.

It was reported that someone witnessed seeing VM on her cellular during the 1 - 3 time frame. Wonder who was the last person she spoke with on her phone?
 
Fwiw, count me in as believing the phone was very close to Mt Barn at 2:25 pm and that the perp, not Vanessa, had it. This is based on my research done when phone was initially mentioned and my experience with similar processes (somewhat limited and in areas not as thick with foliage, however). FM's field test, why not ideal as acknowledged, strengthens my belief.

That said, Rocky, your points about conditions that can throw signals off considerably are valid. I appreciate the input. You could be right here; I just lean toward the theory that he alone had her phone with him at 2:25 pm very close to Mt. Barn.

I love old maps too, FM and DeDee. :)
 
Throwing off LE isn't the main reason he took it, in my mind.
He took it either because he forgot he had it, or because he felt it might have his DNA and is the phone isn't all that flammable, or because he knew that once turned off, it was not an immediate risk for him to have it. But if this last circumstance were true, I think he would have shut it off at the CS. So I lean toward the other two scenarios.

As far as why she might drive to a different store, I know that for me, when I go out to get a coffee, sometimes it's not just about getting the coffee. It's about making an excuse for myself to leave the house and wander a bit. Maybe she just felt like going for a drive, or changing it up, if she had been to that store too many times lately.

On the tree cover, surely a summer test will be more representative, but I am not speaking from a perspective of no experience on this. I do a lot of metal detecting in the deep woods. I use old maps from the 17 & 1800s to locate old house sites that are no longer there. On my phone, I use a similar program to plot the old sites on a map before I go. Then head out, and I use my phone's GPS to locate the pre-plotted locations. This summer I did this for a week with a friend in Vermont. We hiked blindly, sometimes miles into the woods toward the dot I placed on the map. When we reached the spot, there was the old foundation, right where It should have been. These areas were significantly more remote than Princeton. What I am trying to say is that although there may at times be glitches and inaccuracies, I think we need to put a little more faith in the technology aspect of the case. I have very strong reason to believe that the phone was near mountain barn at 2:25pm.
That's fine, It's ok that we can disagree. Forgetting he had it on him means that he had it in his pocket. I know you used the example that if you want to take something away from a baby, you keep it on you. You are assuming that the baby is still free to walk around, and as we know, that doesn't apply here. My thought is that he took her phone, and threw it as far as he could. If he was on top of her, all she would have had to do is go for the phone, if it was in his back pocket, Not saying she would have got it, But, I do know that if he threw it, she wouldn't have. And then there's the thought of the cover up, and my thought is that if he spent time building a fire, he would have made sure that phone was not on him. You mentioned in another post that many here think he was tech savoy. I must have missed those posts because this is the first time I have seen that, but, if he was in your words, then again, why take it knowing he would be a target.
I have to also disagree with burning the phone.If he thought a fire would destroy DNA on her body ,I would think the same applied with the phone ,and I'd be willing to bet he could have succeeded with doing that with the phone much easier.That phone would be charred.
I know what you mean about the ride to the store. The reason I asked, is we agree that LE sat the family down, and because of the details that " LE believes she went to the store for a drink around noon, and we know they took the tapes and more likely than not never told anyone at the Mountainside the results of the review, I'm not so sure I'd dismiss that she did go based on an employees thought only. Even tone of voice can be deceiving. He may swear that nobody did see her, and I know you said there were only two people in front of you, at the counter, so it wasn't that busy at about the same time of day, Think Sundays may be a little more busy?
I believe you have experience with the GPS on your phone. I can also say, that although I wasn't clear how the "FindMyPhone" app worked, I too have a little experience with GPS. As a Pilot, I have studied GPS systems. The FAA has what is called a WAAS System, developed specially for aircraft, and the reason is because the standard GPS system is not reliable. Although you have never had a non accurate signal, and in your experiment your system was accurate updating every minute and a half, WAAS is required to update every 5 seconds or less. It is a complete different system than the one you know, and it relies on ground stations and a separate satellite system all together. The reason, Because GPS is not always reliable, and that system corrects the inaccuracies. You won't find an FAA approved GPS system in a $600.00 Phone, because the GPS alone starts at about $14,000, and if you want a decent stack, plan on spending $35,000. So although I do have faith in technology, the GPS in a phone is not always reliable.
Google "why is the location of my phone wrong." There are 7 pages of tech support just on that subject alone," so I think it's fair to say it's not all that uncommon of a problem.
If you want to use that in building a theory, great, however I think it's premature to state it as fact, as long as there is no tree coverage. JMO.
 
At the outset of the reporting about Vanessa's murder, strangulation was occasionally mentioned as the COD. I will try to locate any references to COD; in my experience with this case, that has been the only COD mentioned.

I pause, however, because Vanessa's murder and Katrina Vetrano's (in NY) were pretty much back to back. Due to both being murdered while jogging, and both being athletic, brunette, etc., media outlets, reporters and readers alike were understandably switching back and forth between the two stories, often overlapping case details. Since Karina was strangled, it is very possible that any reference to Vanessa's COD was misreported. After spending (way) too much time on WS since Missy Bever's murder last April, I have become familiar with various sources, reporters, and generally, how these types of cases "report." I am now better able to wade through some of the muck, at least, and also recognize how facts transmit just as unsuccessfully as in the "telephone game" I played as a child (and also have taught in the classroom as a lesson about gossip.)

Anyhow, I just want to acknowledge fellow sleuths for sharing ideas, spending copious amounts of time thinking about victims like Vanessa AND lending truly remarkable expertise to these cases. We are anything but armchair detectives. It can be hard to stick out one's neck with theories, but it's important that we do so. WS has to be a safe space for what may seem like "nutty" theories or fruitless efforts to those in our lives without similar interest. In my case, that means everyone, so WS is it for me. Otherwise, I am mocked for my interest and care for those who suffer incredible, unspeakable trauma at the hands of others. My particular interest area relates to women who are not only murdered just for being women, but are also re-victimized post-mortem with the public's blame and objectification.

Anyhow, I have noticed while watching a handful of cases that squabbling in a forum picks up 3-4 months after the murder or disappearance, particularly when new information is not forthcoming. I think we become frustrated in general, so we occasionally take it out on each other. Totally my opinion, anyway, for what it's worth...which lately, in general, feels like...

:notgood:
You are right. MSM did say ask LE if she had been strangled, based on rumor, and LE wouldn't confirm.
 
I would disagree by saying that in today's IT world, VMs cell phone is of utmost importance b/c of the digital footprint, texts, emails, calls, both incoming and outgoing. I believe the ping from her phone at 2:25 occurred at the Mountain Barn vicinity. Surely LE does not give up so easily during a search for evidence. We do not know where VMs phone is or if LE has it or not.

It was reported that someone witnessed seeing VM on her cellular during the 1 - 3 time frame. Wonder who was the last person she spoke with on her phone?
I agree, that's why if LE thought her phone was in that location, they would have been all over it looking, but they weren't. as I stated earlier, MSM was all over that town for a week straight, it was headline news for the state of Ma, showing every move LE made, but yet, not one video, or story of LE in that area at all, That is one reason I don't believe LE thought it was there. Even if the Perp took it, LE didn't know that, and I doubt they would have just assumed that he did, and not bother to search.
 
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