Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 2

[RoughlyCollie]

That's right. It's the people who don't mind paying for their rabbit trails down a merry path who come up with uses for lawyers that stretch ordinary bounds.

They would be really taken aback, appalled even, if their lawyer says, "Hey, find a friend, a shrink, or a life coach if you want to talk about that stuff; it's not my job!"

I believe you have some great points. hehehe I understand that people who have access to money will sometimes overlap their lawyer. I have seen it done many times. You start to answer legal questions which trail into moral questions which again trail into issues. You can't just leave them hanging because you are responsible for your first answer! LOL

 

[Salem]

I appreciate the different perspectives. I am beginning to fear the worst. There is something about this case that just is not sitting right with me. I feel sympathy for the parents and yet, I can not understand their actions. I tried and tried to rationalize their behavior the night Madeline went missing. But when I saw the map, it was over for me. I cannot understand how any parent would leave 3 very young children sleeping, with a door unlocked while they went to a noisy resturaunt out of ear and eye shot. It just doesn't make sense.

I did find their body language in the video to be odd also. There was something wrong between Kate & Gerry during that taping. Maybe just an argument brought on by stress, but I feel quite certain there was some kind of "row" right before that taping. They acted like the typical couple that has just had a serious fight and they don't want anyone to know. I agree that I would feel a lot of anger if my daughter went missing -- however, what I was reading from their postures seemed to be more between the two of them.

I am no psychologist, so I could certainly be wrong, but I am usually pretty good at reading people's emotions, based on their postures.

Again - I do appreciate the different perspectives. I tend to initially react on an emotional level, and this is a case filled with emotions.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

I think the key word is "totally". Now they are not so devastated because they have found something to do that they think will help get their daughter back. They feel more in control. They are hoping -- probably have persuaded themselves this is true -- that their daughter is alive.

They are in for a hard row to hoe if their daughter is either never found, or is no longer alive when she is found.

Not to minimize how hard it is for them now. I was thinking that they have to keep their chins up in public and probably for each other and for the adults around who are helping them, and certainly for their twins.

When they have private time, I bet this all hits them very hard -- especially upon going to sleep and upon awakening. It wouldn't surprise me if they dream about Madeleine, and if they feel terribly guilty about what has happened to her.

Just because they keep up the facade in public doesn't mean that underneath they aren't going through some real tough times and real devastating feelings.

If someone believes they have some control over a situation's outcome, they feel better about it. The McCanns feel they have some control now. I think they don't because I think the kidnapper has all the control. However, I understand that the McCanns will do anything they can come up with to help find their child, whether it will work or not. I would feel that way myself. It's a coping mechanism.

All this is my opinion, of course, and I realize I am just surmising here, because I do not know anyone involved.

There was something else said in an earlier post that bothers me, it was said,

"The McCanns stated that they were totally devastated at first, until they found that they could do something to help find their daughter".

They were devastated at first, how can you just cut of that devastation.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

That's right. It's the people who don't mind paying for their rabbit trails down a merry path who come up with uses for lawyers that stretch ordinary bounds.

They would be really taken aback, appalled even, if their lawyer says, "Hey, find a friend, a shrink, or a life coach if you want to talk about that stuff; it's not my job!"

I realize it is a sad day when I come to an understanding of Lawyers n Doctors! Let it be said..I understood Lawyers MUCH sooner than I understood Docs. LOL Some things are more complex than others. <grin>

 

[RoughlyCollie]

Personally, I think the lawyers are more complex. :crazy:

The doctors -- well, when one physician client wanted to know why he couldn't get his license back (he lost it from driving drunk), because he's a doctor, don't you know, I was surprised. But my partner said -- what do you expect of a doctor? He's thinks he is a step above the rest of us because he deserves to be there.

Me? I'm sitting there wondering how a doctor, of all people, could drive drunk in the first place! He should know better!

He is just one example. I know many doctors who do not seem to think they are godlike, and who would never drive if they'd been drinking.

I realize it is a sad day when I come to an understanding of Lawyers n Doctors! Let it be said..I understood Lawyers MUCH sooner than I understood Docs. LOL Some things are more complex than others. <grin>

 

[RoughlyCollie]

I did wonder if they were sedated. I'd be like, where's the valium?

Okay, so these guys can control their emotions, I am a very emotional and caring person and am probably only looking at this from my point of view. I wouldnt be able to front the media, I would have to be sedated, sounds like I am unstable but that is how I would handle not knowing what had happened to one of my girls if they went missing or worse.
But that doesnt explain the discrepancies in thier stories, that is why I personally think the lawyers are called upon.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I think the key word is "totally". Now they are not so devastated because they have found something to do that they think will help get their daughter back. They feel more in control. They are hoping -- probably have persuaded themselves this is true -- that their daughter is alive.

They are in for a hard row to hoe if their daughter is either never found, or is no longer alive when she is found.

Not to minimize how hard it is for them now. I was thinking that they have to keep their chins up in public and probably for each other and for the adults around who are helping them, and certainly for their twins.

When they have private time, I bet this all hits them very hard -- especially upon going to sleep and upon awakening. It wouldn't surprise me if they dream about Madeleine, and if they feel terribly guilty about what has happened to her.

Just because they keep up the facade in public doesn't mean that underneath they aren't going through some real tough times and real devastating feelings.

If someone believes they have some control over a situation's outcome, they feel better about it. The McCanns feel they have some control now. I think they don't because I think the kidnapper has all the control. However, I understand that the McCanns will do anything they can come up with to help find their child, whether it will work or not. I would feel that way myself. It's a coping mechanism.

All this is my opinion, of course, and I realize I am just surmising here, because I do not know anyone involved.

I agree kind of...(waiting on lightning to strike at ANY time!)...but I do in some ways! They have to have control of a situation or at least, believe they do. I can see your point in all of that. In my mind, reading what you wrote I kept saying..."coping mechanism". Correct!

It is reasonable for people to see them as 'cold, calculating, and removed emotionally from this situation. I even did at first until I realized it was drummed into their practice. That is why they had to hire a team of professionals...People didn't get them and would never get them. Altho...the people they hired..should be fired immediately! They obviously didn't get the public!!!

 

[RoughlyCollie]

I did notice that during at least one of the interviews I watched (BBC & Sky News), they said they could see the apartment from the restaurant. But it sure doesn't look like that to me. They likened it to sitting in their back yard, but my goodness, what a huge back yard that would have to be.

But when I saw the map, it was over for me. I cannot understand how any parent would leave 3 very young children sleeping, with a door unlocked while they went to a noisy resturaunt out of ear and eye shot. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

I keep thinking that if they acted emotionally, it would have no effect on the kidnapper, because he doesn't care about that -- unless he takes pleasure in it. So they want to seem composed, in a "we're coming after you" kind of way, I think. They want the kidnapper to know they aren't just going to fold up and let him get away with this.

These press conferences are as much geared to the kidnapper as they are to the public, I think. They need info from the public, but they need their daughter from the kidnapper himself.

IMO

I agree kind of...(waiting on lightning to strike at ANY time!)...but I do in some ways! They have to have control of a situation or at least, believe they do. I can see your point in all of that. In my mind, reading what you wrote I kept saying..."coping mechanism". Correct!

It is reasonable for people to see them as 'cold, calculating, and removed emotionally from this situation. I even did at first until I realized it was drummed into their practice. That is why they had to hire a team of professionals...People didn't get them and would never get them. Altho...the people they hired..should be fired immediately! They obviously didn't get the public!!!

 

[RoughlyCollie]

The thing is that we each see this situation through our own eyes, filtering it through our own knowledge, experiences, emotions, and how we think we would have acted before and after this happened. So we are bound not to agree on everything.

It's kind of like catching a kid with his hand in the cookie jar. Is he sneaking a cookie? Some would surmise that. Others might surmise he is returning one or getting one to give to his mother just to be thoughtful. (Okay, my kids would be sneaking it for their own greedy little selves!)

That's not such a great example, but you get my drift.

I agree kind of...(waiting on lightning to strike at ANY time!)...but I do in some ways! They have to have control of a situation or at least, believe they do. I can see your point in all of that. In my mind, reading what you wrote I kept saying..."coping mechanism". Correct!

It is reasonable for people to see them as 'cold, calculating, and removed emotionally from this situation. I even did at first until I realized it was drummed into their practice. That is why they had to hire a team of professionals...People didn't get them and would never get them. Altho...the people they hired..should be fired immediately! They obviously didn't get the public!!!

 

[sherri79]

I keep thinking that if they acted emotionally, it would have no effect on the kidnapper, because he doesn't care about that -- unless he takes pleasure in it. So they want to seem composed, in a "we're coming after you" kind of way, I think. They want the kidnapper to know they aren't just going to fold up and let him get away with this.

These press conferences are as much geared to the kidnapper as they are to the public, I think. They need info from the public, but they need their daughter from the kidnapper himself.

IMO

i thought you are supposed to show emotion. people who harm children try to think of them as objects not as real people. that is why parents are told to use the child's name over and over in the press conference.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

The thing is that we each see this situation through our own eyes, filtering it through our own knowledge, experiences, emotions, and how we think we would have acted before and after this happened. So we are bound not to agree on everything.

It's kind of like catching a kid with his hand in the cookie jar. Is he sneaking a cookie? Some would surmise that. Others might surmise he is returning one or getting one to give to his mother just to be thoughtful. (Okay, my kids would be sneaking it for their own greedy little selves!)

That's not such a great example, but you get my drift.

Of course, I do. I was just trying to explain that when you go thru roles in life...how we arrived at those at the same time maybe...were from such different mental attitudes and expectations...you will see a huge difference in the way we react...to everything.

 

[Shazza]

I did notice that during at least one of the interviews I watched (BBC & Sky News), they said they could see the apartment from the restaurant. But it sure doesn't look like that to me. They likened it to sitting in their back yard, but my goodness, what a huge back yard that would have to be.

See, this is only one example of the inconsistencies in this case, why would they say they were only a little way away when we know that isnt the truth, and the body language on the TV, my way of thinking about that is that they are not agreeing about something they have to say on TV so therefore is making them uncomfortable, there is no way I could be put in front of a camera knowing millions of people are going to see this and tell lies or not the whole story, how uncomfortable would that be.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

Yeah. I talked to a psychiatrist about that. He said that most people don't mind stepping on an ant, and that psychopaths view people as we view ants. Or to think of a spoon. Does it bother me to drop a spoon? No. Does it bother me to twist a spoon out of shape? No, not for the spoon's sake.

You can say a child's name over and over, and still you don't personalize the child to the psychopath.

Same as you can give your spoon a name, but still your heart does not hurt when you drop it. You still believe the spoon is just an object, even if you give it a name.

Now if I have your spoon, and you say, the spoon is named Susie, and I cry genuine tears when I ask for Susie back, do I (the psychopath) care? No. It's just a spoon, after all.

It's hard for me to understand the psychopath's perspective. The psychiatrist I talked to treats them for a living (they are not free to roam around in society). I don't know how he can stand his job.

i thought you are supposed to show emotion. people who harm children try to think of them as objects not as real people. that is why parents are told to use the child's name over and over in the press conference.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

Yes, I thought that was odd about how close they said Tapas was to their apartment. That smacked of a rationalization to me. People do that to justify their actions in the face of criticism from themselves or others, right?

As for the body language, I've got no comment on that because I don't know enough about it.

See, this is only one example of the inconsistencies in this case, why would they say they were only a little way away when we know that isnt the truth, and the body language on the TV, my way of thinking about that is that they are not agreeing about something they have to say on TV so therefore is making them uncomfortable, there is no way I could be put in front of a camera knowing millions of people are going to see this and tell lies or not the whole story, how uncomfortable would that be.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

Yeah, we agree.

I thought you were waiting for lightning to strike because you agreed with me, and I was trying to explain how that could be possible that we could agree about some things and not about others. Although I didn't understand why lightning would strike if you agreed with me -- probably I misconstrued it? Possibly? Maybe?

Arrggh. It's so late here that I'm not thinking quite straight because I'm tired.

Of course, I do. I was just trying to explain that when you go thru roles in life...how we arrived at those at the same time maybe...were from such different mental attitudes and expectations...you will see a huge difference in the way we react...to everything.

 

[Shazza]

Yes, I thought that was odd about how close they said Tapas was to their apartment. That smacked of a rationalization to me. People do that to justify their actions in the face of criticism from themselves or others, right?

As for the body language, I've got no comment on that because I don't know enough about it.

The McCanns know more than they are telling, they have lied or rationalised as you have said, or covered up the truth, there is something terribly wrong with this case and the parents know. This my opinion.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

Do you think the parents had something to do with Madeleine's disappearance, something directly intentional, is that what you are saying?

The McCanns know more than they are telling, they have lied or rationalised as you have said, or covered up the truth, there is something terribly wrong with this case and the parents know. This my opinion.

 

[Shazza]

Do you think the parents had something to do with Madeleine's disappearance, something directly intentional, is that what you are saying?

I think because they have been getting bad press about leaving their children alone, there are other things that they are withholding that could help the case, but wont say because they will be villified again.

 

[CarpeDiem]

Do you think the parents had something to do with Madeleine's disappearance, something directly intentional, is that what you are saying?

If she was killed because one of them freaked when she wouldn't go to bed, you would think her body would have been discovered by now.

I would just like to know how they cleared those other 9 people at dinner and hanging with them all week, so quickly. Where are they, who are they and who are the people they know. One of them sees a child being carried that looks like Maddie and did nothing? Didn't shout, "Hey", or tell the parents RIGHT AWAY??