Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 2

[RoughlyCollie]

The McCanns did not have a maid or nanny traveling with them. They alone were checking on their children, from what I've read.

The unlocked door was for the convenience of the McCanns -- I guess they didn't want to risk awakening the children when they unlocked the door to check on them.

"Mrs McCann discovered her daughter was missing when she entered her ground-floor bedroom at 10pm. It is believed that Madeleine was taken between 9.10pm and 9.15pm.

The rear patio doors to the apartment had been left unlocked to allow easy access for regular checks by the parents in the group. The other parents made entered the apartment after 9.10pm to check that the children were asleep but had not actually gone in to the bedroom to avoid waking them.

Was this one apartment shared by several families, and the parents took turns checking on all of the children? And is the "other parents made" actually meant to say the other parents' MAID? If there was a maid who had been assigned to check on several sets of children, going from apartment to apartment--or room to room---then this changes things considerably. I can see a nanny or maid overseeing these children, backed up by visits from the parents throughout the evening: that would be a reasonable arrangement. And if there were a maid (not made!), then I would want to know if she was brought along from the UK, or was she hired in Portugal. And was the unlocked door for the convenience of the maid?

Here's the link again:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1847879.ece?token=null&offset=0

Incidentally, this is from the Times of London, not from a tabloid or other less mainstream source (poor proofreading notwithstanding).

 

[Salem]

RC - I understand what you are saying and why the friend's suspicions were not aroused, but, given that she saw a child being carried away, wouldn't it make sense to go through the unlocked door and just visually inspect the kids?

I, personally, don't believe she was running late for dinner. I think she was assigned the 9:00 "kid check."

 

[mjak]

As I mentioned in an earlier post I recently went to the Atlantis which is a huge child centered resort in the Bahamas for a vacation. I can say that is was very commonplace to see father carring little children wrapped in towels form the pool and even in the evenings in sleepwear comming from the child care centers I imagine. I got to go on this lovely vacation because my sister and bil paid for me to go so I could help with their children. I stayed the kids at night a few times when my sister and bil went out for adult nights. Now my nephews both have autistic specturm disoerders but irregardless it is incomprehensible to me that my sister or bil would every consider leaving them alone for a second. The McCann's are a well educated couple who I am sure have the means to have set up adequate child care on their vacation. I find it hard to accept they just left there babies alone and left the back door open for easy access to boot.

mjak

 

[Jdee]

The article said that the friend saw blonde hair and distinctive pink pajamas, which Madeleine's parents were able to identify from her description.

From the article:
"She had seen enough to make her believe it was Madeleine and she had described the pyjamas, which were distinguishable.”
"...was on her way to dinner with Gerry and Kate McCann when she saw the man close to the open window of the bedroom where four-year-old Madeleine had been sleeping. The girl he was carrying was wearing pink pyjamas, the same as Madeleine's. "
"...pink and white pyjamas with Eeyore on them."

It does sound quite likely that she saw a blonde, Eeyore pajama-wearing child being carried. I guess others might assume that people involved on the periphery of a case like this would rush to lie to investigators: I wouldn't.[/quote]

I have a problem with this because it would be dark and she was wrapped in a blanket...so HOW was she able to descern the pajamas had Eyore on them let alone that they were pink?

 

[englishleigh]

RC - I understand what you are saying and why the friend's suspicions were not aroused, but, given that she saw a child being carried away, wouldn't it make sense to go through the unlocked door and just visually inspect the kids?

I, personally, don't believe she was running late for dinner. I think she was assigned the 9:00 "kid check."

I'm wondering how clearly ANY of them remember minute details from that night. Don't you imagine they were probably all drinking quite a bit?

 

[Salem]

Reading the story again - if the abduction occurred between 9:10 and 9:15 (how would they know that) then why did the friend see the man carrying the child at 9:30?

I think there are a lot of typos and contridictory statements in the article. One of the hardest things about this case is that all information is coming from the media and the reporters can't be bothered to get their facts straight, not even within the same article!

If the man was carrying the child away at 9:10-9:15, but the friend "didn't come down to dinner" until 9:30, how did she see him? He would have been long gone by the time she hit the hallway.

 

[Jdee]

I was watching Nancy Grace I believe it was Saturday night and she said when the mother had returned to check on the children the door to the room had been "Jimmied open".. That is the first time I have heard about the door and that it was broken into...
If this is true this would be the time line that she was taken. Before I understood it that they were just listening at the door... but if she came back and the door was broken into then that would be the correct time she was snatched.

 

[mjak]

As I mentioned in an earlier post I recently went to the Atlantis which is a huge child centered resort in the Bahamas for a vacation. I can say that is was very commonplace to see father carring little children wrapped in towels form the pool and even in the evenings in sleepwear comming from the child care centers I imagine. I got to go on this lovely vacation because my sister and bil paid for me to go so I could help with their children. I stayed the kids at night a few times when my sister and bil went out for adult nights. Now my nephews both have autistic specturm disoerders but irregardless it is incomprehensible to me that my sister or bil would every consider leaving them alone for a second. The McCann's are a well educated couple who I am sure have the means to have set up adequate child care on their vacation. I find it hard to accept they just left there babies alone and left the back door open for easy access to boot.

mjak

I am responding to my own post because I am ashamed of my own anger towards these parents. I am a humanist at heart and always have compassion and mercy for people. However, I just can not get past the outrage I feel about these chidlren being left alone and the celebrity treatment the parents seem to be getting. Madeline McCann was put in harms way by the very people who were suppose to protect her. This is inconcionable to me and I can't get past it, sorry for my harsh stand on the parents in their time of pain. Its Madelines suffering which eats at me.

mjak

 

[Salem]

JDee and englishliegh - I agree with both of you.... If the child was wrapped in a blanket, how was the friend close enough to see the Eeyore's without actually seeing the child's face? If she walked right by the man, and the article does NOT say that, but if she did - she would have seen the child pretty closely. The child could have had her face turned into the man's shoulder..... most children do that when they are sleepy and being carried.

And yes, I imagine they were drinking. Being a very light drinker myself, it does not take but a glass or glass and a half of wine to cloud my judgment. However, for people who drink more, I know it takes more, so the big question is, how much were they drinking? Were they being responsible about the alcohol?

 

[Salem]

Mjak - no reason to be ashamed. I know I feel the same way, somewhat cold hearted. BUT the fact of the matter is that this story is totally unbelievable and a young child is missing.

Two educated people who went through fertility treatments to have these babies, leave them alone, in an UNLOCKED hotel room, while they party at such a distance they can neither see or hear any activity in the room. And in a foreign country, not less. How are we supposed to believe that? I just don't. I try and try. I talk to everyone I know. This was stupid - and I can't believe these people are stupid.

The celebrity treatment - I agree with RC on that. If it was me, I would do anything, and I mean anything I possibly could to get my child back. I would do anything to keep this in front of the public. But yes, even still it is hard to understand. I would not be doing photoshoots, I would be plastering flyers, hanging out at the police station, I would probably go see the pope and ask for a "private" audience. I would be hiring the best people recommended by Interpol, so many things. I'm sure they are doing all of that. Still.........

I know I am ranting and I'm sorry. I guess I should go to the Crime Rant site and let loose with some of this emotion, huh? lol

 

[Jdee]

From that same article (and forgive me if this has already been mentioned.. I am behind).

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1847879.ece?token=null&offset=0

"The key witness, who is wracked with guilt, was on her way to dinner with Gerry and Kate McCann when she saw the man close to the open window of the bedroom where four-year-old Madeleine had been sleeping. The girl he was carrying was wearing pink pyjamas, the same as Madeleine's."

Why didn't the friend say anything right then noting that the window was open? Later in the same article it says, "Mrs McCann, a locum GP from Rothley in Leicestershire, realised something was wrong when she entered the apartment as an internal door blew shut. She found the window in the bedroom had been opened and its shutter raised."

So the window was supposed to be closed. Why didn't the 'friend' when she arrived at dinner say something like... oh did you know you left the window up on your apartment?....

I would have, especially knows babies were left in there alone.

 

[missacorah]

May 28, 2007

MADELEINE McCann suspect Robert Murat viewed child on his computer, it was revealed yesterday.

Briton Murat, 33, visited a string of depraved websites.
He lives yards from the Portuguese holiday flat where Maddie, four, was snatched.
A police source said: “Examination of Mr Murat’s computer has confirmed an unhealthy appetite for deeply disturbing material.
“There is no direct link between what was found and Madeleine.
“But officers are describing it as a ‘relevant sexual history’.”
Murat’s ex-boss Paul Titcombe, 49, called him “a huge fan, addicted to women.”
Garage owner Paul, of Norwich, said Murat once terrified a female colleague at the Bernard Matthews factory by stalking her.
He added: “She said he was obsessive and she felt very uncomfortable around him indeed. She hated his pestering. In fact many women loathed Rob.”


Paul also suspected Murat of an unhealthy interest in children.
Murat has been named as the only official police suspect in the hunt for Maddie, who vanished in Praia da Luz on May 3.
He has been released after lengthy interrogation as no evidence was found linking him to the abduction.
Maddie’s parents, doctors Gerry and Kate, both 38, of Rothley, Leics, have been told of Murat’s sickening viewing, which also included sites featuring bestiality.
Murat’s ex-wife Dawn said police quizzed her about his sexual tastes.
She told them she never knew of him watching .
But Dawn, 41, who lives near Dereham, Norfolk, said that after they split she feared he would snatch their daughter Sofia, four — a Maddie lookalike.

As a precaution she hid Sofia’s passport.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007240420,00.html

 

[harleysnana]

From that same article (and forgive me if this has already been mentioned.. I am behind).

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1847879.ece?token=null&offset=0

"The key witness, who is wracked with guilt, was on her way to dinner with Gerry and Kate McCann when she saw the man close to the open window of the bedroom where four-year-old Madeleine had been sleeping. The girl he was carrying was wearing pink pyjamas, the same as Madeleine's."

Why didn't the friend say anything right then noting that the window was open? Later in the same article it says, "Mrs McCann, a locum GP from Rothley in Leicestershire, realised something was wrong when she entered the apartment as an internal door blew shut. She found the window in the bedroom had been opened and its shutter raised."

So the window was supposed to be closed. Why didn't the 'friend' when she arrived at dinner say something like... oh did you know you left the window up on your apartment?....

I would have, especially knows babies were left in there alone.

The "close friend" walked by a "Man with a child in a blanket" by a "opened window" who was "walking urgently" and admits that "At the time she thought it was odd" but went to dinner and didn't say a thing to the other parents?
:banghead:

or... maybe she did say something to the parents and that is what
sparked the 10:00 check?

Also from the article....
The rear patio doors to the apartment had been left unlocked to allow easy access for regular checks by the parents.

How hard is it to unlock a door with a key?
I mean... come on... you have 3 precious children in that apartment!!!
If your going to be neglectful... at least LOCK THE DOOR!

My guess is the man watched the parents check in on the children
every so often and watched them leave with the door "unlocked"!
It's sad.. but he didn't even have to try!
He probably walked right in!!
:slap:

 

[Morag]

The chief suspect has child and other filth on his computer.
He stalked a woman. Women loathed him. His ex wife was so afraid that he would snatch their (Madeleine look-alike) daughter, she hid the girl's passport.
He lived adjacent to the crime scene. He inserted himself into the investigation, lying to others about his status.

Did I miss anything? No wonder LE is close-mouthed about the case. This guy has to be involved.

IIRC, the suspect visited his home in UK a few days before-or after- Madeleine's disappearance. Some speculated it was to get his daughter's passport. Now it seems that his ex was afraid he would try to get the passport.

 

[harleysnana]

The chief suspect has child and other filth on his computer.
He stalked a woman. Women loathed him. His ex wife was so afraid that he would snatch their (Madeleine look-alike) daughter, she hid the girl's passport.
He lived adjacent to the crime scene. He inserted himself into the investigation, lying to others about his status.

Did I miss anything? No wonder LE is close-mouthed about the case. This guy has to be involved.

IIRC, the suspect visited his home in UK a few days before-or after- Madeleine's disappearance. Some speculated it was to get his daughter's passport. Now it seems that his ex was afraid he would try to get the passport.

I would like to know if they are still considering him the chief suspect after the friend told her story of seeing the man with the child in the blanket...

One would think that if she could describe the PJ's that the girl had on
she would be able to describe the man!

Also...
The fact that he has a daughter close to Madeleine's age...
the person who saw the man with the little girl in "blue PJ's" would make
sense...
He could have had a pair of his daughters PJ's to change Madeleine
into!

 

[Salem]

Okay - its official - I am obsessing about this case. Here's a question:

You walk into your apartment and see that your child is missing. What would you do?

1. Pick up the phone and either call the front desk for help or call the restrauant and ask that they send your husband back to your room?
2. Stand outside the apartment door and scream for help?
3. Pick up your two remaining children and run to your husband?
4. Leave your two sleeping children in their beds and run back to the resturant to fetch your husband and others?

Would you really leave your two children after discovering that something has happened to your 3rd child?

I think I would stand at the door screaming for help, myself. If I was a more reserved sort, I might have used the telephone. I would never have left the other babies if my child was missing.

Did Kate take the twins back to the restrauant with her? Do we know?

 

[Salem]

Harleysnana wrote "I would like to know if they are still considering him the chief suspect after the friend told her story of seeing the man with the child in the blanket...

One would think that if she could describe the PJ's that the girl had on
she would be able to describe the man!"

This is a very good point and if she could ID Murat, I would think they would have arrested him by now, unless they are waiting until they find Maddie?

 

[sleuthin4fun]

Something about these parents does not sit right with me. I would have much more respect for them if they would just come out and say" We were negligent in leaving our children alone. Because of this Maddie is missing. Parents please protect your children ect..... They depend on you". It appears to me that they are attempting to take the focus off of their actions. They are probably fearful of some form of prosecution. Also, I guess you don't really know how you would react in a situation until you are in it yourself but, they do not appear to be all that upset. Maybe they have been heavily medicated but, I doubt that is the case. If they were on so much medication that their demenor is as flat as it appears to be that would basically be useless in any type of search for Maddie. They just seem weird to me.

 

[englishleigh]

Did Kate take the twins back to the restrauant with her? Do we know?

What a good question!!! I have no idea. I would say not, though.

 

[Morag]

"The rear patio doors to the apartment had been left unlocked to allow easy access for regular checks by the parents in the group. The other parents made entered the apartment after 9.10pm to check that the children were asleep but had not actually gone in to the bedroom to avoid waking them. "

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1847879.ece?token=null&offset=0

I am still wondering about the bold-faced part of this quote. Were the parents in the group taking turns checking up on all the children? And should the sentence read "The other parents had entered the apartment after 9:10..."? This sounds like there was a steady stream of parents checking up on all the kids..., but if so, why didn't anyone notice the jimmied door?
Although I find it unlikely that any of the parents harmed Madeleine, the pattern and order of the child-checking is still a little vague. If each of the eight parents there went to the apartment several times during the evening, then that would mean someone did look in every 10 minutes or so. Maybe each parent looked only at his/her own kids and merely listened at the door of the others.

BTW, here are various descriptions of how far the tapas bar was from the apartment:
...less than a minute's walk away.
...only a very short distance
...a few hundred yards
...40 yards from their apartments
...just yards away
...40 paces

a few hundred yards is very different from a minutes walk away...