Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

[~n/t~]

It is not Jane Tanner who reported Murat, it was OC staff.. I read it in files today..

Scotland Yard found the dark man carrying the child, the one Jane Tanner described.
Funny how PJ didn't find him, he was right in front their nose.

Well that's new. It was always reported it was tanner pointing the finger at Murat.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Jane said it straight away, the same night Madeleine went missing she reported seeing the guy with the child, so she reported in in May 2007.
So, the PJ could go straight to the night nursery and ask the list who took, or brought their children that night, why they did not do that, I don't understand.

Scotland Yard started working on the case two and a half years ago, they interviewed the nursery parents recently and found out the guy.

I don't know if they did it or not, that is an excellent point.

:dunno:

Someone should have, definitely.

It just occurs to me to wonder how many man hours were lost due to the McCanns refusing to cooperate. Everytime the PJ had to apply to the UK for something they were forced to do it the hard way, through the UK courts. That is expensive and time consuming. Some things they never got, such as Madeleines medical records, the McCann credit card statement, their phone records.

The PJ aren't the wealthiest police force in the world and only have so many resources.

Maybe things got missed because time and manpower were sucked up trying to prise help or accurate information from the McCann.



If so, it puts even more shame on their heads. :moo:

 

[~n/t~]

www.mccanfiles.com

The mccanns accused Murat.

 

[haden]

Well that's new. It was always reported it was tanner pointing the finger at Murat.

No, the first 'finger' was from a Sun newspaper journalist. I forgot her name.
She thought his behaviour of putting his nose everywhere was similar to Soham girls murderer.

Another thing is what I read in the files today.. someone describing his behaviour as very odd, but this was a staff of the Ocean Club.. I posted one account earlier..

Processos Vol VI
Pages 1409 – 1412

Witness Statement

Marina Paulo Raposo Batista Castela


Date: 2007 – 05 – 16


Place of Work: Ocean Club

Occupation: General Manager



She comes to the process as a witness. She heard about the disappearance on 4th May when she arrived at work at about 09.30.

She saw the suspect, Robert Murat, for the first time on that day at about 12.30 when the witness went to meet GNR officers whom she cannot identify, to open the doors for them and speak to guests staying in apartments in block 6. The objective was for the police to talk to these guests and show them the photo of the girl and establish whether they had any information that could lead to discovering her whereabouts.

When she was beginning this task together with GNR officers, this individual appeared, she does not know from where, he immediately saw what operations were going on, speaking ostensibly to the guests from the first two apartments, explaining to them what they were doing there, showing much will and anxiety in the transmission of this information.

Given his behaviour, for a few minutes the witness thought that he belonged to one of the security forces, namely the PJ.


The GNR officer who was with them did not speak and English nor say anything.


After the second apartment, the witness says that Robert’s attitude was not the most correct, as he spoke to the guests in a very dry and affirmative way and she took the initiative to introduce herself to the clients, not letting him speak.

She thanks that is the reason why he immediately disappeared and did not accompany them to the rest of the apartments.

During the time he was with them that afternoon, several times he said how sorry he was about Madeleine’s disappearance, that he had a daughter of the same age and that we had to do everything possible to find the girl.

She had not seen this individual before this incident and knows nothing about him or his lifestyle.

She only saw him again on the morning of 7th May when she came to make statements to the PJ officers in apartment 6 of block 6. She was in the building between 11.00 and 13.30 and remembers that the individual entered and left the building at free will. They said hello to each other and did not speak any further that day.


On the following day 8th May, when she took some cleaning staff to the PJ station for questioning, Robert went to her and greeted her with two kisses. He asked her name. She did not see him again that day and thinks he was with the PJ officers.


She saw him again the following day 9th May at about 10.30 at the PJ station. At that moment he approached her and said the witness was known by a friend of his, Michaela. The witness confirmed this fact.

After this day she saw him no further. Apart from the contacts she had with him she had seen him on other occasions from a distance, in the company of journalists.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Well that's new. It was always reported it was tanner pointing the finger at Murat.

Tanner positively identified him.

Jane Tanner was placed inside a police surveillance van (with windows that allow you to look outside, from the van, without being seen), the van was parked in a strategic position, near apartment 5A, and PJ investigators took Murat with them, making exactly the same walk the man carrying a child had made, according to Jane Tanner.

Jane Tanner looked at Murat walking and told police she was sure he was the same man, she recognised the way he walked, with no doubt.

- 'A Verdade da Mentira', 'Maddie: The Truth of the Lie' by Gonçalo Amaral

:seeya:

 

[Donjeta]

Something is very hinky about Scotland Yard getting involved and finding this man. I'm not buying it. Something is going on behind the scenes imo

I suppose SY might have approached this man and perhaps he was more inclined to talk to someone from his own country than the Portuguese police... but I must admit that I found Andy Redwood a little hinky when he rhapsodized about how uncannily similar the photo of the unknown blur of a man was to the drawing of the unknown blur of a man. There was nothing uncanny about it, you could easily find lots of men who bear that much of a vague resemblance to a very vague drawing. Dress them up in similar colors and have them strike a similar pose and voilá. It left me wondering what AR was up to, surely he couldn't be unaware that one faceless dark haired man is much like any other faceless dark haired man.

 

[SapphireSteel]

No, the first 'finger' was from a Sun newspaper journalist. I forgot her name.
She thought his behaviour of putting his nose everywhere was similar to Soham girls murderer.

Another thing is what I read in the files today.. someone describing his behaviour as very odd, but this was a staff of the Ocean Club.. I posted one account earlier..

Murat also got a big payout from the British rags.

:twocents:

 

[~n/t~]

I suppose SY might have approached this man and perhaps he was more inclined to talk to someone from his own country than the Portuguese police... but I must admit that I found Andy Redwood a little hinky when he rhapsodized about how uncannily similar the photo of the unknown blur of a man was to the drawing of the unknown blur of a man. There was nothing uncanny about it, you could easily find lots of men who bear that much of a vague resemblance to a very vague drawing. Dress them up in similar colors and have them strike a similar pose and voilá. It left me wondering what AR was up to, surely he couldn't be unaware that one faceless dark haired man is much like any other faceless dark haired man.

Exactly. Something hinky is going on imo

 

[Ellmau]

Tanner positively identified him.

Jane Tanner was placed inside a police surveillance van (with windows that allow you to look outside, from the van, without being seen), the van was parked in a strategic position, near apartment 5A, and PJ investigators took Murat with them, making exactly the same walk the man carrying a child had made, according to Jane Tanner.

Jane Tanner looked at Murat walking and told police she was sure he was the same man, she recognised the way he walked, with no doubt.

- 'A Verdade da Mentira', 'Maddie: The Truth of the Lie' by Gonçalo Amaral

:seeya:

TBH that sounds to me as though she was aware this was a potential suspect and was trying too hard to be helpful. The reason why lineups are supposed not to flag the actual suspect to a witness is that if you think you know who you're supposed to identify, you may be influenced by that.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I suppose SY might have approached this man and perhaps he was more inclined to talk to someone from his own country than the Portuguese police... but I must admit that I found Andy Redwood a little hinky when he rhapsodized about how uncannily similar the photo of the unknown blur of a man was to the drawing of the unknown blur of a man. There was nothing uncanny about it, you could easily find lots of men who bear that much of a vague resemblance to a very vague drawing. Dress them up in similar colors and have them strike a similar pose and voilá. It left me wondering what AR was up to, surely he couldn't be unaware that one faceless dark haired man is much like any other faceless dark haired man.

Seriously, Andy Redmond is quickly becoming one of my favourite parts of this entire mess.

His little earnest face and pursed lips...he looks like an over-anxious boy scout determined to score a new badge for starting a campfire with a stick and a lot of rubbing.

His bizarre tv appearances can only be designed to rattle the perp, surely. I'm quite sure of it. They are so....British, somehow, calm voice, posh yet everday accent, earnest expression, reassuring yet still as shifty as a used car salesman. :moo:

The only thing that explains the burblings of AR is that he is a plant designed specifically to make someone feel comfortable/uncomfortable. His wafty, vague, and contradictory announcements cannot be a genuine reflection of what's really going on. If it is, SY is a big fat joke.

I have faith in LE though. I believe they are going to crack this one Thank God.

:twocents:

 

[SapphireSteel]

TBH that sounds to me as though she was aware this was a potential suspect and was trying too hard to be helpful. The reason why lineups are supposed not to flag the actual suspect to a witness is that if you think you know who you're supposed to identify, you may be influenced by that.

She was trying hard all right. :liar:

 

[Meteor]

Hi meteor :seeya: Welcome to the board. Good theory except I have a difficult time with replacing maddie with another child. Wouldn't the caregivers notice it wasn't maddie? Surely they would have told LE during the investigation.

Possibly, if Maddy went to the kids club at all that day. It was an hypothetical intended to stimulate ideas. I see no other way the McCann's can do it unless Maddy dies the day before they report her missing. It is highly unlikely that they got rid of her body the same night and so I spanned the event over a two day period.
Seems logical to do so.

 

[~n/t~]

I'm still questioning the latest efit. They do not look like one person at all. What's up with that?

 

[haden]

Possibly, if Maddy went to the kids club at all that day. It was an hypothetical intended to stimulate ideas. I see no other way the McCann's can do it unless Maddy dies the day before they report her missing. It is highly unlikely that they got rid of her body the same night and so I spanned the event over a two day period.
Seems logical to do so.

If Madeleine has been replaced by another Madeleine, all of the McCanns friends are lying for them, chidcare staff being stupid and not realising it is another child they are having.. How this would be possible? So where is the 'other' Madeleine now? How come they so quickly found another similar girl with the same name?

 

[haden]

I don't know if they did it or not, that is an excellent point.

:dunno:

Someone should have, definitely.

It just occurs to me to wonder how many man hours were lost due to the McCanns refusing to cooperate. Everytime the PJ had to apply to the UK for something they were forced to do it the hard way, through the UK courts. That is expensive and time consuming. Some things they never got, such as Madeleines medical records, the McCann credit card statement, their phone records.

The PJ aren't the wealthiest police force in the world and only have so many resources.

Maybe things got missed because time and manpower were sucked up trying to prise help or accurate information from the McCann.



If so, it puts even more shame on their heads. :moo:

Why would it be McCanns fault for PJ not checking the Tanner man carrying the child.
They could simply go and interview the night nursery workers, get their lists of who came when, find everyone who walked in that street that time..

Why it has been left for the British police to find this man 6 years later.

He could have been found at day 2, because Tanner reported this sighting at day 1.

 

[Hexe]

I'm still questioning the latest efit. They do not look like one person at all. What's up with that?

They look like two people. One resembles Gerry McCann, and the another one looks like Russell O'Brien.

 

[Donjeta]

JMO, I think everybody wants a happy outcome in all the cases we have here, it's just that sometimes it's hard to believe in. There are some lovely crow recipes on WS for those times that people are wrong but I am afraid that if Madeleine was found alive the truth of what happened to her could be quite nasty too. The theories that SY seemed to be putting forth in the Crimewatch show weren't good imo. If she was a victim of a pre-planned abduction gang it sounds like she was kidnapped to be abused and if she disturbed burglars who weren't planning to kidnap a child she was probably dead shortly.

My best hope is that she's safe at a gypsy camp and will be found.

 

[~n/t~]

Why would it be McCanns fault for PJ not checking the Tanner man carrying the child.
They could simply go and interview the night nursery workers, get their lists of who came when, find everyone who walked in that street that time..

Why it has been left for the British police to find this man 6 years later.

He could have been found at day 2, because Tanner reported this sighting at day 1.

I know this wasn't addressed to me but they had their suspect based on tanner sighting. Murat. Yes they could have investigated further but as explained earlier I doubt they have/had the same resources available as in the UK as an example

 

[haden]

JMO, I think everybody wants a happy outcome in all the cases we have here, it's just that sometimes it's hard to believe in. There are some lovely crow recipes on WS for those times that people are wrong but I am afraid that if Madeleine was found alive the truth of what happened to her could be quite nasty too. The theories that SY seemed to be putting forth in the Crimewatch show weren't good imo. If she was a victim of a pre-planned abduction gang it sounds like she was kidnapped to be abused and if she disturbed burglars who weren't planning to kidnap a child she was probably dead shortly.

My best hope is that she's safe at a gypsy camp and will be found.

I am not sure about the gypsy camps. There was a 1 million pound reward for info on Madeleine back in 2007. If she was with gypsies they are poor, someone would alert the police and get 1 million pound.

Regarding the current SY theories, IMO it is better she is found now if she is alive than never.

Assuming she is dead is not fair.

 

[haden]

I know this wasn't addressed to me but they had their suspect based on tanner sighting. Murat. Yes they could have investigated further but as explained earlier I doubt they have/had the same resources available as in the UK as an example

Resources? How many hours they spent trying to fit the parents into their only one theory?
This was only interviewing the night nursery staff and the 11 parents who used it that night!