Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #11

[sleuth-d-]

Article says -

"It is claimed fresh sightings have emerged of Brueckner’s VW Westfalia – which he sold for scrap in 2017 in the Algarve for £5,000 – in the area around the wells."

Doesn't say when exactly though and by "area" they may just mean the general area, not specifically that it was seen near the wells. The article goes on to talk about the beaches and camping sites in Vila do Bispo in general.

I am intrigued why LE picked out these 3 specific wells though. There's so many in the area, there must be something that made these stand out.

i think it does everything but say specifically near the wells. 'fresh sightings of the VW' must be the link. so, sightings near the wells, imo.

 

[redplanet]

Article says -

"It is claimed fresh sightings have emerged of Brueckner’s VW Westfalia – which he sold for scrap in 2017 in the Algarve for £5,000 – in the area around the wells."

Doesn't say when exactly though and by "area" they may just mean the general area, not specifically that it was seen near the wells. The article goes on to talk about the beaches and camping sites in Vila do Bispo in general.

I am intrigued why LE picked out these 3 specific wells though. There's so many in the area, there must be something that made these stand out.

Just my wild guess - maybe back in May 2007 someone saw a vehicle resembling one of CB's, parked on that side of that 100m section of road???

 

[sleuth-d-]

Just my wild guess - maybe back in May 2007 someone saw a vehicle resembling one of CB's, parked on that side of that 100m section of road???

the article also says 'sightings'. so maybe they had two or more people seeing the van in the same area, which helped them to be sure to look in that area.
and/or they have a list of sightings, and are looking at wells in the area close to each sighting.

 

[redplanet]

Visible in 2009 streetview (but not in 2018 streetview): You can see there is a big opening in the wall enabling a vehicle to park off the road next to well B. Also a clear area enabling a vehicle to park off the road next to well A (which puts it also close to well C).

 

[Dlk79]

Ok, so have been trying to rack my brain what it might be about these wells for police to target them specifically and I noticed there is something unique about them. Along the entire stretch of road from Budens to Praia da Boca do Rio, these are pretty much the only ones I can find where you can access by simply pulling over to the side of the road.

The larger well is a bit trickier to get to with all the overgrowth but not sure how it looked back in 2007. All the other wells in the area require you to go over some wall or enter onto people's property. There is only one other well I can find which is actually on the roadside and this is quite close to Budens. Here:
37.082586,-8.823732

I'm wondering whether CB has confided in someone about what he did with MM's body and this person has relayed to the police what he remembers. Perhaps they've known all along she was disposed in a well, but were looking for a rough location that matched with what CB had described to the informant.

We heard weeks ago about Portuguese LE being poised to do a well search, everyone assumed it was at the finca but nothing then happened. This is possibly why there's been all the appeals for where his van was seen. Did CB perhaps tell someone something along the lines of simply "pulling over to the side of the road and tossing her down an abandoned well on his way to/from his beach campsite at the time"?

What did he say in the rest of the 2017 bar confession? "I know all about what happened to MM...". I can't imagine that being the end of the conversation.

ETA: Following subsequent check, the 4 wells mentioned are the only ones I can find accessible from the roadside along the entire route from PDL to Boca do Rio. That's whether you take the route via Budens or via Burgau.

 

[Dlk79]

Visible in 2009 streetview (but not in 2018 streetview): You can see there is a big opening in the wall enabling a vehicle to park off the road next to well B. Also a clear area enabling a vehicle to park off the road next to well A (which puts it also close to well C).

Could you post a screenshot of how well B looked ln 2009 streetview please?

 

[redplanet]

Ok, so have been trying to rack my brain what it might be about these wells for police to target them specifically and I noticed there is something unique about them. Along the entire stretch of road from Budens to Praia da Boca do Rio, these are pretty much the only ones I can find where you can access by simply pulling over to the side of the road.

The larger well is a bit trickier to get to with all the overgrowth but not sure how it looked back in 2007. All the other wells in the area require you to go over some wall or enter onto people's property. There is only one other well I can find which is actually on the roadside and this is quite close to Budens. Here:
37.082586,-8.823732

I'm wondering whether CB has confided in someone about what he did with MM's body and this person has now relayed to the police what he remembers. Perhaps they've known all along she was disposed in a well, but were looking for a rough location that matched with what CB had described to the informant.

We heard weeks ago about Portuguese LE being poised to do a well search, everyone assumed it was at the finca but nothing then happened. This is possibly why there's been all the appeals for where his van was seen. Did CB perhaps tell someone something along the lines of simply "pulling over to the side of the road and tossing her down an abandoned well on his way to/from his beach campsite at the time"?

Yes, easily accessible from the road.
Here is well B in 2009. Credit: Google Streetview.
Easily visible from the road, and there was visible space to park by the side of the road here. And looking at the tire tracks in the grass, vehicles did park here, presumably to have a look at the well.

 

[redplanet]

(Sorry posted in error)

 

[sleuth-d-]

Ok, so have been trying to rack my brain what it might be about these wells for police to target them specifically and I noticed there is something unique about them. Along the entire stretch of road from Budens to Praia da Boca do Rio, these are pretty much the only ones I can find where you can access by simply pulling over to the side of the road.

The larger well is a bit trickier to get to with all the overgrowth but not sure how it looked back in 2007. All the other wells in the area require you to go over some wall or enter onto people's property. There is only one other well I can find which is actually on the roadside and this is quite close to Budens. Here:
37.082586,-8.823732

I'm wondering whether CB has confided in someone about what he did with MM's body and this person has now relayed to the police what he remembers. Perhaps they've known all along she was disposed in a well, but were looking for a rough location that matched with what CB had described to the informant.

We heard weeks ago about Portuguese LE being poised to do a well search, everyone assumed it was at the finca but nothing then happened. This is possibly why there's been all the appeals for where his van was seen. Did CB perhaps tell someone something along the lines of simply "pulling over to the side of the road and tossing her down an abandoned well on his way to/from his beach campsite at the time"?

What did he say in the rest of the 2017 bar confession? "I know all about what happened to MM...". I can't imagine that being the end of the conversation.

nice thinking. can i also add to that, these wells are all visible above ground, i.e. have machinery sticking up. so you would see them as you were driving past, maybe on any previous trip(s) down this road 1999-2007. to the beach for instance.
although i can see a well in almost every field from the satellite pics, someone driving along would not see a well in a field so easily.

 

[tedtink]

Ok, so have been trying to rack my brain what it might be about these wells for police to target them specifically and I noticed there is something unique about them. Along the entire stretch of road from Budens to Praia da Boca do Rio, these are pretty much the only ones I can find where you can access by simply pulling over to the side of the road.

The larger well is a bit trickier to get to with all the overgrowth but not sure how it looked back in 2007. All the other wells in the area require you to go over some wall or enter onto people's property. There is only one other well I can find which is actually on the roadside and this is quite close to Budens. Here:
37.082586,-8.823732

I'm wondering whether CB has confided in someone about what he did with MM's body and this person has now relayed to the police what he remembers. Perhaps they've known all along she was disposed in a well, but were looking for a rough location that matched with what CB had described to the informant.

We heard weeks ago about Portuguese LE being poised to do a well search, everyone assumed it was at the finca but nothing then happened. This is possibly why there's been all the appeals for where his van was seen. Did CB perhaps tell someone something along the lines of simply "pulling over to the side of the road and tossing her down an abandoned well on his way to/from his beach campsite at the time"?

What did he say in the rest of the 2017 bar confession? "I know all about what happened to MM...". I can't imagine that being the end of the conversation.

I agree.
LE have basically handed us the story of what happened from the start. The phonecall, The pics of the camper on the beach, the pic of the camper near the posts, the bar confession, the chatroom conversation about "taking something small".
I think the aim was to carefully drip the story, to nudge memories as really ALL they actually need is MM's body.

 

[redplanet]

Yes, easily accessible from the road.
Here is well B in 2009. Credit: Google Streetview.
Easily visible from the road, and there was visible space to park by the side of the road here. And looking at the tire tracks in the grass, vehicles did park here, presumably to have a look at the well.

Here is the picture I forgot to upload before

 

[Dlk79]

nice thinking. can i also add to that, these wells are all visible above ground, i.e. have machinery sticking up. so you would see them as you were driving past, maybe on any previous trip(s) down this road 1999-2007. to the beach for instance.
although i can see a well in almost every field from the satellite pics, someone driving along would not see a well in a field so easily.

I keep coming back to the comment HCW made about MM having been killed very soon after the abduction. I'm wondering did this bar confession explain that MM was killed and disposed that very night, literally at some point between the Ocean club and wherever he was staying at the time.

I would like to do a check of the roads from PDL all the way to Boca do Rio to see if these are the only roadside wells on that route. That would deifintely make sense then if the confession just stated he did whatever he did on his way home and then threw her into a well on the side of the road.

Like I said, there is one other roadside well near Budens, perhaps they need to check that one too?

 

[sleuth-d-]

here's the view of the well site, near to that grey car mentioned earlier... zoomed in a bit closer. 22 june 2007. looks like two wells close together.

 

[sleuth-d-]

I keep coming back to the comment HCW made about MM having been killed very soon after the abduction. I'm wondering did this bar confession explain that MM was killed and disposed that very night, literally at some point between the Ocean club and wherever he was staying at the time.

I would like to do a check of the roads from PDL all the way to Boca do Rio to see if these are the only roadside wells on that route. That would deifintely make sense then if the confession just stated he did whatever he did on his way home and then threw her into a well on the side of the road.

Like I said, there is one other roadside well near Budens, perhaps they need to check that one too?

if it is just a case of checking all the wells on one route, i am sure they would be prepared to do them all - all the way from PdL. media have reported three checked in one day. but LE were on standby a few weeks ago. they could be working their way down that route checking every road side well.

 

[tedtink]

I wonder if the wells were located in fields that "pigs" were in in 2007?
Did CB share a clue?

 

[redplanet]

Ok, so have been trying to rack my brain what it might be about these wells for police to target them specifically and I noticed there is something unique about them. Along the entire stretch of road from Budens to Praia da Boca do Rio, these are pretty much the only ones I can find where you can access by simply pulling over to the side of the road.

The larger well is a bit trickier to get to with all the overgrowth but not sure how it looked back in 2007. All the other wells in the area require you to go over some wall or enter onto people's property. There is only one other well I can find which is actually on the roadside and this is quite close to Budens. Here:
37.082586,-8.823732

I'm wondering whether CB has confided in someone about what he did with MM's body and this person has now relayed to the police what he remembers. Perhaps they've known all along she was disposed in a well, but were looking for a rough location that matched with what CB had described to the informant.

We heard weeks ago about Portuguese LE being poised to do a well search, everyone assumed it was at the finca but nothing then happened. This is possibly why there's been all the appeals for where his van was seen. Did CB perhaps tell someone something along the lines of simply "pulling over to the side of the road and tossing her down an abandoned well on his way to/from his beach campsite at the time"?

What did he say in the rest of the 2017 bar confession? "I know all about what happened to MM...". I can't imagine that being the end of the conversation.

And here are wells A and C in 2009. Credit Google Streetview. There was space to park on the side of the road between A and C. And the tire tracks indicate people did so probably to look at the wells.

 

[Betty_Boop88]

I agree.
LE have basically handed us the story of what happened from the start. The phonecall, The pics of the camper on the beach, the pic of the camper near the posts, the bar confession, the chatroom conversation about "taking something small".
I think the aim was to carefully drip the story, to nudge memories as really ALL they actually need is MM's body.

Also agree. I think everything they’ve released has also been very tactical, to lead us all down the same line of thinking of what he did to her. The photos of the van are always of it parked alone, never with him in the shot, I think to jog memories of anyone having seen it parked - either on a beach or a roadside.
The DW/Skype conversation; he must have had loads of similar conversations, MT said he was never off the DW. So why release this little snippet of this specific conversation? His hearing is this week, they can’t let him walk and if he does (I don’t believe he will), well they’ve just gave the entire world an idea of what he did to her.
They need forensic evidence. There was none found at the scene that we know of. There was none found in his vehicles that they searched. And after 13 years, the only hope of forensics they have now is her body. They won’t get his DNA from that, but if it turns out they find her where his bar mate said he left her, then they have him.

20 more wells searched.

Maddie cops search 20 more wells over fears Christian B dumped her body in one

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

If dumped in a well, then perhaps more likely from the campervan than the car due to the sliding door. Would be less conspicuous than having the boot up or a car door open, I’d’ve thought.

 

[haden]

What about the phone pings?
If they had all Gerry McCann whereabouts they surely can get CBs, too.
Oh I hope at least one person in PJ was thinking that night!
Say they saved all phones that pinged that night in PDL and amongst them there were the tractor guy who died and who had a similar profile to CB and CB.
It would be lucky for them if he had his phone on. Him loving to take his videos would probably be yes. At least for one part of the night.
Where did it connect to the mast next I wonder. Who saw him next morning I wonder.
Knowing these details would bring lots of new clues.
I remember when Paulo Rebelo took over it was said that he brought in his team of child protection unit. Amongst them were so-called cleaners, the IT guys who were the best of the best in Portugal and specialised in child protection. I just hope that they produced valuable data, hope it is still available.
Another thing, several people reported they were shown CBs photo when their witness statement was taking place but he was not known to any of them. What was the reason for showing his photo?
And the last, his personality is so weird that it is impossible to predict what he did. TBH, when thinking about him, he likes using people, he has no record of ever committing murder but we know he left his victims live. Altogether, to me it indicated that he would try selling her further. But the investigation probably knows much more and this is why they are searching wells.

 

[Dlk79]

if it is just a case of checking all the wells on one route, i am sure they would be prepared to do them all - all the way from PdL. media have reported three checked in one day. but LE were on standby a few weeks ago. they could be working their way down that route checking every road side well.

There's 2 main routes you can go from the Ocean club to Boca do Rio, either via Budens or via Burgau. I just crawled both routes on aerial view. Apart from the 3 wells they have searched, plus the one I mentioned near Budens, I can't seen any wells on either route that you can access from the roadside. There's a couple near-ish the road on the Burgau route but they are on peoples property behind a wall or fence.