Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #20

[tedtink]

Brit cops in meeting with German & Portuguese police to find missing Maddie

Some more info about the Lisbon meeting @MENDEL mentioned, not paywalled.

This is very interesting indeed and has been a subject of our posts too.
Hopefully a meeting of forensic psychologists- criminal profilers' minds, and the evidence they already have (possibly more phone data after 3.5.07?) will pay off and they may be able to come up with a strong theory of what he did next and where he would have taken MM based on his psychological profile.
I assume that is what they mean here.

"The aim of the conference was to fine-tune suspect Christian B's profile to try to work out where Madeleine’s body may have been buried after she was kidnapped, with German cops believing she is dead."

Brit cops in meeting with German & Portuguese police to find missing Maddie

 

[Victoria Chambers]

There were 4 families of the Tapas group leaving their children unattended, not 3. Not sure how you could know that none of the other residents in the Ocean club weren't also leaving their kids in the apartment for dinner though? We only know about those 4 because they had to give specific statements about it, nobody else in the OC would have.

And only 1 of the group had monitors that worked I believe, the Paynes who were on the second floor. I think one of the other families tried using their monitor from the restaraunt but it didn't work at that range. The McCanns apartment was also the easiest to access, being the only one accessible directly from the roadside.

Well I cannot speak of families leaving their kids if it is something we are not aware of can I? And in an interview with UK police woman Sophie Victoria, JT mentions having to go out and make sure her monitors worked properly from the Tapas since hers were not as advanced as the Payne's monitors. X

 

[Anxala]

This is very interesting indeed and has been a subject of our posts too.
Hopefully a meeting of criminal profilers' minds, and the evidence they already have (possibly more phone data after 3.5.07?) will pay off and they may be able to come up with a strong theory of what he did next and where he would have taken MM based on his psychological profile.
I assume that is what they mean here.

"The aim of the conference was to fine-tune suspect Christian B's profile to try to work out where Madeleine’s body may have been buried after she was kidnapped, with German cops believing she is dead."

Brit cops in meeting with German & Portuguese police to find missing Maddie

Lord, so much conflicting and confusing info in that article. (Not you, Ted, just the content.)

Fine-tuning CB's profile to work out where MM may be buried in the company of SY still referring to her as a missing person? I mean, really?!

As much as I wonder where Wolters is going with this investigation, I think I'll wait for him, via a reputable (and ideally German) source, to confirm and verify the nature of this 'conference'.

 

[Dlk79]

Well I cannot speak of families leaving their kids if it is something we are not aware of can I?

Well exactly, that's my point. But you are trying to make a case for this being a planned/targetted operation on MM on the basis that MM is somehow unique among the other kids staying in the OC.

You say the 3 (it's actually 4) families were the only ones we know about that left their kids in the apartment, but they're the only ones we WOULD know about. How we would we know about what anyone else in OC was doing? It's almost like saying it must have been GM, MO or KM who were involved in MM's disappearance because they're the "only ones we know about" who went in the apartment that night.

Sorry, not trying to pick at you but the argument is flawed and to say the McCann's were the only ones in the group who weren't using baby montors from the Tapas is also incorrect.

 

[Okapi]

It's likely CB had done reconnaissance on the apartment and the T7 dinner routines ahead of 3 May. As we've discussed, he'd possibly already been in the apartment before, so he'd be across the layout and circumstances e.g. no baby monitor therein. I don't think he went in blind.

 

[tedtink]

Lord, so much conflicting and confusing info in that article. (Not you, Ted, just the content.)

Fine-tuning CB's profile to work out where MM may be buried in the company of SY still referring to her as a missing person? I mean, really?!

As much as I wonder where Wolters is going with this investigation, I think I'll wait for him, via a reputable (and ideally German) source, to confirm and verify the nature of this 'conference'.

Hey - Not for one moment did I think you meant me
Could be this 'heads together' means finally sharing some of the evidence they have?

 

[Newthoughts]

Well exactly, that's my point. But you are trying to make a case for this being a planned/targetted operation on MM on the basis that MM is somehow unique among the other kids staying in the OC.

You say the 3 (it's actually 4) families were the only ones we know about that left their kids in the apartment, but they're the only ones we WOULD know about. How we would we know about what anyone else in OC was doing? It's almost like saying it must have been GM, MO or KM who were involved in MM's disappearance because they're the "only ones we know about" who went in the apartment that night.

Sorry, not trying to pick at you but the argument is flawed and to say the McCann's were the only ones in the group who weren't using baby montors from the Tapas is also incorrect.

I believe this was planned - I think MM was targeted because appt 5A is the easiest to attack. It would not surprise me if he'd been in the flat before - MM crying on 1st for example and asking her mum why they didn't come when she'd been crying

I would be surprised if many other families would have left their kids. The Tapas 7 were incredibly naive in that respect. Whilst everyone I've ever spoken for feels desperately sorry for them - they've all also said what on Earth were they thinking of.

So in both those respects MM was unique. The ideal target for someone like MM

 

[C.greek]

There are so many interesting spots at Barragem de Odiàxere, worth to look at IMO. Hasn't been the omonius letter about that place?

37,2228443, -8,7135020

View attachment 269348

Absolutely! And if I remember correctly I had found a parking spot close there which did remind me of the photos. They are also trying to locate and speak to a german drifter who used to live there in a van

 

[redplanet]

(BTW just to clarify IMO these alerts trace back to their cause by action of intruder in the apartment).
This table is about the rented villa, not the apartment
Column 1: room name
Column 2: did Eddie alert in that room?
Column 3: did Eddie alert to clothes taken from that room?
common room - yes - yes
lounge - no - no
twins bedroom - no - no
visitors bedroom - no - no
couples bedroom - no - no
P.J. POLICE FILES: INSPECTION SITES PHOTOGRAPHIC REPORT

 

[redplanet]

It's likely CB had done reconnaissance on the apartment and the T7 dinner routines ahead of 3 May. As we've discussed, he'd possibly already been in the apartment before, so he'd be across the layout and circumstances e.g. no baby monitor therein. I don't think he went in blind.

In Feb 2007 an apartment with identical room layout had been burgled.

 

[tedtink]

It's likely CB had done reconnaissance on the apartment and the T7 dinner routines ahead of 3 May. As we've discussed, he'd possibly already been in the apartment before, so he'd be across the layout and circumstances e.g. no baby monitor therein. I don't think he went in blind.

I guess no matter what kind of reconnaissance he may have done, nothing would have accounted for one of the T9 children being sick that evening or GM bumping into JW.
The T9 originally said they based their checks on the 'baby listening service' in previous evenings, that being every 30 mins.
That particular evening the T9 were up and down that road like they were in a relay!

8.35 Mc's arrive
8:40 JT arrives.
Shortly after O's arrive.
8:45 RO'B arrives.
8:57 MO leaves the bar and passes the P's & DW on their way to the Tapas meal and carries out a check of the ground floor apartments (5A, 5B and 5D), returning to the Tapas Meal at 9:00.
9:05 GM checks on 5a
9:15 JT leaves the restaurant to check, and passes GM and JW, She see's Tannerman.
9:20 JT returns to the Tapas restaurant. GM had returned just before her.
9:25 R O'B and MO go back to the apartments to check, RO'B stays in 5D-
MO checks 5A.
9:35 MO returns to the Tapas restaurant.
9:40 JT returns to 5D to take care of the child and let R have his food
9:45 RO'B returns to the Tapas restaurant.
10:00 KM goes to check.

Considering CB was reportedly said to have entered other apartments to burgle during siesta when the occupants were sleeping, it's possible that he did no prior daytime reconnaissance of 5a and could have just lurked in the trees at the front of the apartment on the night waiting for an opportunity to enter.
JMO

 

[C.greek]

I believe this was planned - I think MM was targeted because appt 5A is the easiest to attack. It would not surprise me if he'd been in the flat before - MM crying on 1st for example and asking her mum why they didn't come when she'd been crying

I would be surprised if many other families would have left their kids. The Tapas 7 were incredibly naive in that respect. Whilst everyone I've ever spoken for feels desperately sorry for them - they've all also said what on Earth were they thinking of.

So in both those respects MM was unique. The ideal target for someone like MM

Many British couples leave their kids napping unattended while in hotels on holidays. I know that in Greece (Greek islands to be more exact) it is /was pretty common to see British parents having lunch on their own and checking on their kids who were napping in the hotel rooms/holiday flats. I was very surprised to see that as a Greek mother but it was quite common on such holiday resorts. It must have thus been common knowledge to locals that this is something tourists do.

 

[MENDEL]

I think someone has named CB as the abductor. Someone credible. But he did not kill her. She is still alive in Germany.

I hope truth is with you.

 

[Dlk79]

I believe this was planned - I think MM was targeted because appt 5A is the easiest to attack.

By the same token, it was the easiest to burgle. So that fact doesn't make the case of a planned abduction any more likely than a burglary. Or a planned abuse in situ.

I would be surprised if many other families would have left their kids.

But we don't know who did or not. I was just pointing out there is no way for us to determine how unique this was. Must be noted though that in other Mark Warner clubs, many families do exactly this while the parents go out for the night while the hotel staff do regular listening checks. DP spoke about it in his rogatory statement and spoke about how since this Mark Warner complex didn't offer the service, they would do the listening checks themselves instead. Not unreasonable to think other Mark Warner regulars might have done the same.

So in both those respects MM was unique. The ideal target for someone like MM

I assume you mean ideal target for CB? Not especially disagreeing with your theory, but even accepting the logic, the exact same argument could be applied for CB going in there to abuse MM in the apartment as opposed to going in there to abduct her.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I guess no matter what kind of reconnaissance he may have done, nothing would have accounted for one of the T9 children being sick that evening or GM bumping into JW.
The T9 originally said they based their checks on the 'baby listening service' in previous evenings, that being every 30 mins.
That particular evening the T9 were up and down that road like they were in a relay!

8.35 Mc's arrive
8:40 JT arrives.
Shortly after O's arrive.
8:45 RO'B arrives.
8:57 MO leaves the bar and passes the P's & DW on their way to the Tapas meal and carries out a check of the ground floor apartments (5A, 5B and 5D), returning to the Tapas Meal at 9:00.
9:05 GM checks on 5a
9:15 JT leaves the restaurant to check, and passes GM and JW, She see's Tannerman.
9:20 JT returns to the Tapas restaurant. GM had returned just before her.
9:25 R O'B and MO go back to the apartments to check, RO'B stays in 5D-
MO checks 5A.
9:35 MO returns to the Tapas restaurant.
9:40 JT returns to 5D to take care of the child and let R have his food
9:45 RO'B returns to the Tapas restaurant.
10:00 KM goes to check.

Considering CB was reportedly said to have entered other apartments to burgle during siesta when the occupants were sleeping, it's possible that he did no prior daytime reconnaissance of 5a and could have just lurked in the trees at the front of the apartment on the night waiting for an opportunity to enter.
JMO

It’s really excellent to see the checking traffic listed like that - thank you.

Whether planned or unplanned, I do think that all this back and forth supports my point about CB staying in 5A for an extended period.

And the longest quiet period is 9:45-9:55. I’ve mentioned it before but this supports the Smithman sighting. If all true, the exit on foot ... and for such a long distance doesn’t support planned abduction,

 

[Chiatos]

Well that was a long read, think I picked up on samples with letter L, being found in apartment, belonging to male, and several of them, that didn't match anyone tested, it's not that far down. Did anyone else notice that?
Slightly off subject but not, did the mc's refuse to provide medical history for MM, not that it matters, but that's why I mentioned yesterday it could be something that CB new, but no one else would if you get me, regard something about her body?

Yes Lilly, I was going to bring it up: samples L are unaccounted for.
That goes for D as well, but I'm still studying the matter.

 

[MENDEL]

Which investigations MENDEL? Does it say?

I shared all I could extract from the small unpaid introduction.

Once Portuguese, British and German LE have met, it will be interesting to check how different will be OG's speech from now on.

 

[tedtink]

I've dismissed the Smith sighting in the past but it would certainly support your @Denis R Tandib post and Dlk's theory and after re-reading the witness statement some of the sentences take on a very different meaning.

"he was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour.

The child has blonde medium-hued hair, without being very light. Her skin was very white, typical of a Brit. He did not notice her eyes as she was asleep and her eyelids were closed

He adds that he did not hold the child in a comfortable position, suggesting [the carrying] not being habitual

Questioned, says that the individual did not speak nor did the child as she was in a deep sleep.

P.J. POLICE FILES: MARTIN SMITH & FAMILY STATEMENTS

 

[Dlk79]

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/la...ccann-suspect-being-investigated-22915766.amp

EXCLUSIVE Detectives searched the former home of the suspect, Christian Brueckner, and compared DNA found at the resort, in Praia da Luz, where Madeleine vanished in 2007

The prime suspect in the Madeleine McCann case is being investigated over three more sex crimes in Portugal.

Detectives searched the former home of Christian Brueckner and compared DNA found in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz from which Madeleine vanished in 2007.

But they do not have enough evidence to secure an arrest warrant.

A Portuguese newspaper said: “The searches revealed nothing. Nor did the DNA profiles.”

The extensive inquiries conducted by Portuguese police, however, may help solve other outstanding cases. They are probing German convicted paedophile Brueckner, 43, over a sex attack on an Irish woman in Portugal in 2004.

He is also suspected of sexually abusing a 10-year-old child on a beach in the Algarve in 2007, and of the sexual harassment of two youngsters in the Algarve three years ago.

German police are looking into matters and a source said: “There are ongoing investigations in other areas.’’

 

[Dlk79]

I've dismissed the Smith sighting in the past but it would certainly support your post and Dlk's theory and after re-reading the witness statement some of the sentences take on a very different meaning.

"he was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour.

The child has blonde medium-hued hair, without being very light. Her skin was very white, typical of a Brit. He did not notice her eyes as she was asleep and her eyelids were closed

He adds that he did not hold the child in a comfortable position, suggesting [the carrying] not being habitual

Questioned, says that the individual did not speak nor did the child as she was in a deep sleep.

P.J. POLICE FILES: MARTIN SMITH & FAMILY STATEMENTS

I previously dismissed this sighting too but that was when I was thinking from the basis that this was a pre-planned abduction. It didn't make sense to me for someone to be walking with the child that far from the apartment when they could have placed her in a car closer to the scene. Now, in the scenario of an unplanned death in the apartment, I'm not so sure. Maybe it could have been CB after all.