Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #20

[Ekliptika]

Double post deleted.

 

[MsBetsy]

Summary

A few months ago German police announce they have convincing evidence that CB abducted and killed Madeline

Over 20,000 posts on websleuths speculating how and why he did it

Now German police say they will be closing the file because of lack of clues.

German cops want to visit Portugal in 'final roll of dice' in Madeleine case

It doesn't say that German police will be closing the file because of lack of clues.

It says investigators want to return to the Algarve a final time to try to generate fresh leads. They believe witnesses in the area hold vital clues and they are just one witness away from justice. They want to find out more about CB's movements and actions in the days and weeks after Madeleine's disappearance.

I think they know that someone knows something about the crime and since CB won't cooperate, they need witness testimony as a final piece of the puzzle to prove their case.

 

[enjy15]

I agree. I'm thinking they will charge him with some crimes (perhaps possessing illegal images, etc) no matter what new evidence they do or don't get.
But why already proclaim his guilt for murder in their appeals for information? I can't understand this unless they plan to charge him no matter what but don't want to admit this yet.
My speculation only.

I agree, I think if they weren’t certain they wouldn’t go public with saying her murdered her, they could have just said a suspect in the disappearance.

 

[enjy15]

Telling the parents that their daughter is dead.

The absolute arrogance of the Germans to do such a thing. When in fact they have no clues.

I said in the past that Germans think they are always Right... Its a trait they possess as a nation... Borne out here.

A whole nation can’t possess a trait, you can’t just generalise the whole of Germany as being arrogant...

 

[redplanet]

I’ve been having a look at the lake around Baragem de Bravura on Google Maps to try and find the location of the unknown photos of VW WF. The location is obviously somewhere where CB went, to park up, stay, smoke weed or whatever. I am thinking it would be out of the way, perhaps away from buildings and would have off-street parking. Obviously the small fence and reeds are the only real clues.

It’s interesting that the lake is man-made and close to the shore line, there are several spots where there are ruins of old buildings. It seems likely that there would be something of interest where the location is, maybe a view or access to a beach area etc.

I came across a location that had a lay-by where several cars could park. There is a fence there and what looks like a 40” shipping container. In the Google Maps image there was a couple of cars parked next to the container. I only viewed it for a moment before my phone rang and I lost the location. If anyone is looking and you find this location, could you please post the coordinates?

The VW van was parked at that exact spot for a good number of hours I would say 6hrs absolute minimum because there is a photo of it there in full daylight and another photo of it there in black nighttime and there is no rotation of the wheels between the 2 photos (credit goes to others for sleuthing this not me). Possibly he was sleeping overnight at this spot?

 

[SuperdadV8]

The VW van was parked at that exact spot for a good number of hours I would say 6hrs absolute minimum because there is a photo of it there in full daylight and another photo of it there in black nighttime and there is no rotation of the wheels between the 2 photos (credit goes to others for sleuthing this not me). Possibly he was sleeping overnight at this spot?

Or succesfully implent some plan...?

 

[Newthoughts]

I previously dismissed this sighting too but that was when I was thinking from the basis that this was a pre-planned abduction. It didn't make sense to me for someone to be walking with the child that far from the apartment when they could have placed her in a car closer to the scene. Now, in the scenario of an unplanned death in the apartment, I'm not so sure. Maybe it could have been CB after all.

I've always thought this sighting was very interesting for several reasons.

Firstly there were several people in the group who clearly remember the man carrying a child. They were very clear on that fact - it wasn't one of them seeing it. That is a scene that, on hearing a child had gone missing, they were all able to recall in the context of their evening out. So it seems a credible sighting.

They weren't able to give a detailed enough description of him to convict CB (who really would take that much notice of the person - it's the whole event they recall) but nothing in their descriptions excludes him. They all saw a tallish white male average to thin build - not short or fat or black or female. It could be him.

The pregnant witness remembers details of the child - when I was pregnant I found myself more tuned in to small children. The description doesn't exclude MM - small, fairish hair, white.

He wasn't in the OC location where he could more readily have been just a parent carrying a child back from a creche. Tannerman could have been.

Most importantly - as far as we know nobody has come forward to identify themselves as Smithman. Someone has said they were probably Tannerman.

The sighting supports all assumed scenarios.

 

[Anxala]

Hey - Not for one moment did I think you meant me
Could be this 'heads together' means finally sharing some of the evidence they have?

If so, not before time! There's just something very disconcerting about 3 different police forces continuing to hold positions that contradict and conflict in very damaging and undermining ways with each other. The LE says they absolutely categorically have the right man in their prime suspect and they know how he killed MM (despite not having the evidence they need to charge him); the PJ agree that MM is dead but continue to pour cold 'wild goose chase' water on the id of the abductor/murderer; and SY, despite all that, persisting with their 'missing person' narrative.

Were there not such a tragic story at the heart of this, it would be farcically funny.

There really needs to be a consensus of some sorts so they're all, if not on the same page, at least coming across as if they're reading the same book.

 

[Circulo]

That particular evening the T9 were up and down that road like they were in a relay!

8.35 Mc's arrive
8:40 JT arrives.
Shortly after O's arrive.
8:45 RO'B arrives.
8:57 MO leaves the bar and passes the P's & DW on their way to the Tapas meal and carries out a check of the ground floor apartments (5A, 5B and 5D), returning to the Tapas Meal at 9:00.
9:05 GM checks on 5a
9:15 JT leaves the restaurant to check, and passes GM and JW, She see's Tannerman.
9:20 JT returns to the Tapas restaurant. GM had returned just before her.
9:25 R O'B and MO go back to the apartments to check, RO'B stays in 5D-
MO checks 5A.
9:35 MO returns to the Tapas restaurant.
9:40 JT returns to 5D to take care of the child and let R have his food
9:45 RO'B returns to the Tapas restaurant.
10:00 KM goes to check.


JMO

This is really useful timeline, tedtink

To insert into this: there was Hayley Crawford and her Ocean Club maintenance man boyfriend, Nuno Da Conceicao, around at this time as well:

Both went to Ocean Club at 2030PM and Nuno completed his job around 2100pm. Hayley drove her grey Peugeot back, alone, past 5a around this time, whilst Nuno collected service vehicle from OC main reception to drive home in, and neither saw anybody at all. Curious that Nuno's statement is quite open-ended, given that this is the crucial hour.

P.J. POLICE FILES: HAYLEY MAY CRAWFORD
P.J. POLICE FILES: NUNO FILIPE GUERREIRO DA CONCEICAO

 

[Lilly b]

This is really useful timeline, tedtink

To insert into this: there was Hayley Crawford and her Ocean Club maintenance man boyfriend, Nuno Da Conceicao, around at this time as well:

Both went to Ocean Club at 2030PM and Nuno completed his job around 2100pm. Hayley drove her grey Peugeot back, alone, past 5a around this time, whilst Nuno collected service vehicle from OC main reception to drive home in, and neither saw anybody at all. Curious that Nuno's statement is quite open-ended, given that this is the crucial hour.

P.J. POLICE FILES: HAYLEY MAY CRAWFORD
P.J. POLICE FILES: NUNO FILIPE GUERREIRO DA CONCEICAO

Could he be the one who left the note outside the apartment?? Because someone did or hayley?

 

[Lilly b]

Going back to dna samples,
In the case that he is locked up for now, it was dna of 1 hair I think? So if his dna isn't /wasn't found in 5a, that would suggest he was in and out very quickly with what he wanted, mm
So not an attempted robbery, but planned abduction, and thinking about the rape as mentioned above, totally planned, just messed up by taking his mask off at the end, and video seen by others, his downfall on that case

 

[redplanet]

This is really useful timeline, tedtink

To insert into this: there was Hayley Crawford and her Ocean Club maintenance man boyfriend, Nuno Da Conceicao, around at this time as well:

Both went to Ocean Club at 2030PM and Nuno completed his job around 2100pm. Hayley drove her grey Peugeot back, alone, past 5a around this time, whilst Nuno collected service vehicle from OC main reception to drive home in, and neither saw anybody at all. Curious that Nuno's statement is quite open-ended, given that this is the crucial hour.

P.J. POLICE FILES: HAYLEY MAY CRAWFORD
P.J. POLICE FILES: NUNO FILIPE GUERREIRO DA CONCEICAO

And, during the tapas meal: tourist JW (chat) walks past 5A to block 4, also the M couple walk past tapas reception and 5A while returning from a town centre meal to 5K.

 

[Newthoughts]

Going back to dna samples,
In the case that he is locked up for now, it was dna of 1 hair I think? So if his dna isn't /wasn't found in 5a, that would suggest he was in and out very quickly with what he wanted, mm
So not an attempted robbery, but planned abduction, and thinking about the rape as mentioned above, totally planned, just messed up by taking his mask off at the end, and video seen by others, his downfall on that case

I agree. I also think the timelines of the checks also support him going in and getting out quickly. A planned abduction

 

[tedtink]

By the same token, it was the easiest to burgle. So that fact doesn't make the case of a planned abduction any more likely than a burglary. Or a planned abuse in situ.

But we don't know who did or not. I was just pointing out there is no way for us to determine how unique this was. Must be noted though that in other Mark Warner clubs, many families do exactly this while the parents go out for the night while the hotel staff do regular listening checks. DP spoke about it in his rogatory statement and spoke about how since this Mark Warner complex didn't offer the service, they would do the listening checks themselves instead. Not unreasonable to think other Mark Warner regulars might have done the same.

I assume you mean ideal target for CB? Not especially disagreeing with your theory, but even accepting the logic, the exact same argument could be applied for CB going in there to abuse MM in the apartment as opposed to going in there to abduct her.

Wolters seems to think so too.
This is a July article, I may be wrong but I can't seem to recall him talking about any other possible scenario's

Appearing on the ITV documentary Madeleine McCann: The Hunt For The Prime Suspect, Public Prosecutor for Braunschweig Hans Christian Wolters argued that her kidnapper may have grabbed her in a spur of the moment decision.
The prosecutor added that he may have taken the child on a whim after breaking into her apartment, intending to simply rob the room.
Also appearing on the documentary, former Brit detective Dr Graham Hill said in his experience, most child abductors didn't set out to kidnap a child on the day they committed their crimes.
More often, it was a spur of the moment decision, he added.

 

[redplanet]

Is it possible that BKA do not yet understand the last step of what happened? I mean the concealment step. What if the mystery 'concrete' evidence demonstrates that he did it, and also how, but maybe it leaves a huge gap at the end, completely lacking the concealment step?

 

[redplanet]

Could he be the one who left the note outside the apartment?? Because someone did or hayley?

The note was many months later

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Going back to dna samples,
In the case that he is locked up for now, it was dna of 1 hair I think? So if his dna isn't /wasn't found in 5a, that would suggest he was in and out very quickly with what he wanted, mm
So not an attempted robbery, but planned abduction, and thinking about the rape as mentioned above, totally planned, just messed up by taking his mask off at the end, and video seen by others, his downfall on that case

Think about how long he was in the house of DM during the rape case and what occurred ... only one hair was left.

 

[redplanet]

Is it possible that BKA do not yet understand the last step of what happened? I mean the concealment step. What if the mystery 'concrete' evidence demonstrates that he did it, and also how, but maybe it leaves a huge gap at the end, completely lacking the concealment step?

...in that context do I remember a HCW quote saying something about some other people must know something about concealment? Or maybe my memory is faulty?

 

[Victoria Chambers]

I agree. I also think the timelines of the checks also support him going in and getting out quickly. A planned abduction

My thoughts too! If an assault or accidental death etc had occurred in the apartment then I think Cuddle Cat would have been found on the bed. If she were deceased then the perp would be panicking and would not think to pick up the toy to place elsewhere. MM must've been clutching it when she was taken from the bed. imo X

 

[redplanet]

Is it possible that BKA do not yet understand the last step of what happened? I mean the concealment step. What if the mystery 'concrete' evidence demonstrates that he did it, and also how, but maybe it leaves a huge gap at the end, completely lacking the concealment step?

Found the quote, an extraordinary statement by BKA:
"On the German 'Crimewatch', BKA director Christian Hoppe urged anyone with information 'of the possible course of events' to come forward and 'clear their conscience'.
He said his officers needed people who were holidaying in Praia da Luz in May 2007 to fill 'the final gaps' in his investigation.
The BKA's appeal said: 'There is reason to assume that there are other persons, apart from the suspect, who have concrete knowledge of the course of the crime and maybe also of the place where the body was left.'"
Madeleine McCann: Paedophile suspect had 17 convictions | Daily Mail Online