Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #21

[snowpea666]

I can’t find in CT statement or reports where she is describing the “gateman’s “ nose. Only from the other witnesses.
Can you advise where you saw that ?
Have seen however fairly recent news reports where CT has said clearly that CB is the man she saw playing around with the gate.

Hi, do you have a link for that , I would like to read it again, thanks.

 

[redplanet]

I can’t find in CT statement or reports where she is describing the “gateman’s “ nose. Only from the other witnesses.
Can you advise where you saw that ?
Have seen however fairly recent news reports where CT has said clearly that CB is the man she saw playing around with the gate.

Ah that is because she uses a peculiar way of describing it. I will find it for you soon.
ETA: in the statement find the 2nd occurence of "nose", that is it, a rather outdated manner of saying "long".
Also shortly after that is is the interesting "he had a long face".

 

[Zuleika]

Possibility of intruder causing DIA in 5A.
Cadaver dog alerts in 5A.
Might the two things be connected?

That being so why would the intruder remove her?

 

[redplanet]

Hi, do you have a link for that , I would like to read it again, thanks.

P.J. POLICE FILES: CAROL TRANMER MRS FENN'S NIECE STATEMENT

 

[Trivento]

P.J. POLICE FILES: CAROL TRANMER MRS FENN'S NIECE STATEMENT

Also had a read through this...only reference I could find of her describing nose in this lengthy statement was this quote

CT...”Humm , but the glasses and I do not know about the nose, it was more'mmm'but we all come from different places.”

Was curious if there was a record somewhere else of her talking about the nose that is more understandable..

 

[redplanet]

That being so why would the intruder remove her?

Good question. However IMO our task as investigators is strictly to discover what happened even if it makes no sense to us. Maybe the intruder panicked and/or was on drink/drugs and made illogical decisions?

 

[redplanet]

Also had a read through this...only reference I could find of her describing nose in this lengthy statement was this quote

CT...”Humm , but the glasses and I do not know about the nose, it was more'mmm'but we all come from different places.”

Was curious if there was a record somewhere else of her talking about the nose that is more understandable..

You found it, it's a dated way of saying long using a racial stereotype. But it's useful information for us.

 

[Trivento]

You found it, it's a dated way of saying long using a racial stereotype. But it's useful information for us.

Thanks.. yes also interesting..especially as CB doesn’t appear to have an unusually large nose !
Although is difficult to get a true idea just from photos.

 

[redplanet]

Thanks.. yes also interesting..especially as CB doesn’t appear to have an unusually large nose !
Although is difficult to get a true idea just from photos.

Depends on the viewing angle IMO. In some photos his face appears non-angular and his nose appears short, however there is a photo in a bar in Hanover on which the face is seen to be very angular and the nose long, similar IMO to the extraordinarily angular pair of ID sketches of the man seen twice by UK female tourist JW.

 

[Trivento]

Depends on the viewing angle IMO. In some photos his face appears non-angular and his nose appears short, however there is a photo in a bar in Hanover on which the face is seen to be very angular and the nose long, similar IMO to the extraordinarily angular pair of ID sketches of the man seen twice by UK female tourist JW.

Yes indeed ..the strange thing about CB photos is that he never seems to look the same twice ..hard to believe they’re all actually of same person !

 

[Dlk79]

I can’t find in CT statement or reports where she is describing the “gateman’s “ nose. Only from the other witnesses.
Can you advise where you saw that ?
Have seen however fairly recent news reports where CT has said clearly that CB is the man she saw playing around with the gate.

I don't think the witness who it's claimed said CB "is the man she saw" is actually CT. I think it is more likely to have been JW or JJ. In the Sun article it does mention CT's sighting and that of TS, but only in relation to a trawl of other witness statements on file that sort of matched CB's description. They don't explicitly identify what witness recognised CB as the person she saw near the McCann's apartment. It just says:

The woman reported the sighting within hours of three-year-old Madeleine’s disappearance on May 3, 2007, and has always been viewed as a credible witness.
Madeleine witness says Christian B IS man she saw near apartment

That doesn't fit with CT's account:

"After arriving home, Sunday morning we woke and read the Times Sunday paper. There we saw my aunt's apartment and the notice about the missing child....

...After, we thought a bit more about it and I telephoned my cousin who is at Sandhurst and he told me that I should call the police and tell them."

CT didn't find out about what had happened to MM until 3 days later, so she obviously didn't report it to the police 'within hours' of MM's disappearance, which is what the Sun claims their quoted witness did.

 

[Trivento]

I don't think the witness who it's claimed said CB "is the man she saw" is actually CT. I think it is more likely to have been JW or JJ. In the Sun article it does mention CT's sighting and that of TS, but only in relation to a trawl of other witness statements on file that sort of matched CB's description. They don't explicitly identify what witness recognised CB as the person she saw near the McCann's apartment. It just says:

The woman reported the sighting within hours of three-year-old Madeleine’s disappearance on May 3, 2007, and has always been viewed as a credible witness.
Madeleine witness says Christian B IS man she saw near apartment

That doesn't fit with CT's account:

"After arriving home, Sunday morning we woke and read the Times Sunday paper. There we saw my aunt's apartment and the notice about the missing child....

...After, we thought a bit more about it and I telephoned my cousin who is at Sandhurst and he told me that I should call the police and tell them."

CT didn't find out about what had happened to MM until 3 days later, so she obviously didn't report it to the police 'within hours' of MM's disappearance, which is what the Sun claims their quoted witness did.

Think you're probably correct...more likely JW or JJ

 

[Loobyloo]

I just don't understand why Wolters is still giving regular interviews to such random (and more often than not, seriously tabloid) sources? He's not saying anything new, he's not providing any new insights into the investigation, he's just saying, more or less, the exact same things he's been saying since the investigation was made public.

It seems such a strange way to conduct an investigation.

I'm trying (but failing) to think of another serious criminal case where the prosecution has made itself so indiscriminately available.

Do we know who initiated this interview? It may simply have been the BBC pestering him for an update. If he'd fobbed them off with 'no comment', & that got reported, we'd probably all be speculating on why his reply was different this time!

 

[redplanet]

Agreed it's not CT

 

[Okapi]

Agreed - in fact i think it is near certain

Yep. As I think @Newthoughts alluded to upthread, it appears the UK media is hounding HCW about the investigation because Brexit/Covid. I think he should quote Mr Bull from Peppa Pig when asked for progress. "It will take as long as it takes."

 

[Okapi]

The man ‘watching’ 5A as witnessed by various people, was standing at the lamppost where the dogs stopped. I have always thought it possible that this person had prior contact with Madeleine, which led the dogs to her scent (perhaps on his clothing) at that spot.

That's very interesting...

 

[redplanet]

I don't think the witness who it's claimed said CB "is the man she saw" is actually CT. I think it is more likely to have been JW or JJ. In the Sun article it does mention CT's sighting and that of TS, but only in relation to a trawl of other witness statements on file that sort of matched CB's description. They don't explicitly identify what witness recognised CB as the person she saw near the McCann's apartment. It just says:

The woman reported the sighting within hours of three-year-old Madeleine’s disappearance on May 3, 2007, and has always been viewed as a credible witness.
Madeleine witness says Christian B IS man she saw near apartment

That doesn't fit with CT's account:

"After arriving home, Sunday morning we woke and read the Times Sunday paper. There we saw my aunt's apartment and the notice about the missing child....

...After, we thought a bit more about it and I telephoned my cousin who is at Sandhurst and he told me that I should call the police and tell them."

CT didn't find out about what had happened to MM until 3 days later, so she obviously didn't report it to the police 'within hours' of MM's disappearance, which is what the Sun claims their quoted witness did.

Agreed it's not CT.
And it is not JJ because she saw a pair of men but we are IMO looking for a witness who saw one man.
Therefore IMO probably it is JW (female). From her description come the sketches of a very angular acned face.

 

[Okapi]

Madeleine McCann cops won't charge suspect yet because of double jeopardy law

".......prosecutors admit they are wary of charging the prime suspect in their investigation because of Germany’s strict double jeopardy law.

Speaking exclusively to our sister paper ..... chief prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters said:

“If we file charges and he is acquitted, then the case is dead forever."

"A case in Bremen illustrated how rigid the German double jeopardy law can be....."

Apologies if that's been posted before.

Is it not more likely that HCW is being cautious rather than overly confident?
I also think that the LE - and appropriate departments, are sifting through vast amounts of material that's possibly come to light in the last couple of years. JMO

As I think @SuperdadV8 suggested upthread.

 

[Okapi]

Good question. However IMO our task as investigators is strictly to discover what happened even if it makes no sense to us. Maybe the intruder panicked and/or was on drink/drugs and made illogical decisions?

That being so why would the intruder remove her?

I'm still wondering if she was in the borderline between life and death when he took her. He may have assumed she was still alive when she was actually dying or dead.

CB as I said before has two hats, the meticulous burglar/House breaker and the impulsive sexual offender. This certainly clouds the issue of his likely behaviour and state of mind that night, in MOO.

 

[snowpea666]

P.J. POLICE FILES: CAROL TRANMER MRS FENN'S NIECE STATEMENT

Thanks Red