Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #21

[mrjitty]

It’s a pretty narrow road and they are recent acquaintances so I can see how they could be completely engrossed in conversation. The only way I can see both accounts being correct is if GM has his back to JT as she walks up the street so JW sees her as he is talking face to face with GM but he doesn’t know her so it doesn’t register. I found the discussion between GM and JW on the Netflix documentary completely bizarre. One of several oddities in the case.

Again this is why the contamination of evidence is bad.

When you are talking to someone in the street for as much as 10 mins, you don't have any specific orientation. Of course it is possible that JT walked by while he wasn't looking, but on 10 May he is already giving an account which explains JT's evidence, when we want his actual memories.

IMO JWs evidence is quite key here, because he was not part of any timeline assembly.

 

[peanutJelly]

It probably doesn’t matter but I think JT did see GM and JW but they didn’t see her - I could be wrong.

I’m sure I read somewhere that she was wearing flip flops that made a noise when she walked. Will try to find.
ETA - here you go, in here she takes about cropped trousers and flip flops
P.J. POLICE FILES: JANE TANNER ROGATORY INTERVIEW<br>WITH DC FERGUSON

 

[peanutJelly]

This is one aspect I always hoped we would see the witnesses examined - but it seems unlikely it ever will happen now.

I think that if this ever ends up in court that is exactly what FF will do!

 

[peanutJelly]

Got another theory that freaks me out if I think about it too much but I’m going to share it to see what others think.

I’m wondering if CB could have gone into the apartment twice. First time for robbery or his own pleasure, (or both) which we know he’s got form for. Ends up killing MM. Leaves her lying in bed. So when later checks are done, she’s in bed, supposedly asleep. After all the adults were checking for the presence of children, not that they were there and still alive.

CB returns to take away her body, either to remove evidence, to satisfy his own perversions or both.

This might also help to explain the dogs evidence as there would be more time for scent to be left.

Just a theory I’m considering a possibility, wanted to see what others think of it?

 

[SuperdadV8]

That wouldn't really fit the BKA appeal, which puts the time of the event between 09:10 and 10.00 pm IMO. I think this assumption would be the result of the former investigations, maybe including one of the ominous confessions, that have been reported by the media?!

 

[tedtink]

I think the timeline of checks has to be interpreted as a guideline and not exact times - the checks could have been 10 mins out either way IMO, so it's difficult trying to fit the crime exactly into this timeline.


The only time it would matter, is if, like you say that FF intends to use it, which he has indicated already.

Just to add more confusion and I guess most on here have already seen this, but this is the timeline theory from PJ with all first T9 witness statements including statements of Tapas staff that evening.

P.J. POLICE FILES: TIMELINE INFORMATION

I would be interested to know who ate starters that evening and exactly what times the starters and main meal were served as I would suggest none of the other T9 (except ROB) would have got up from the table during eating either course and would have checked the children between courses - (Maybe that's just me projecting good 'manners')
Considering it takes 15-20 mins to eat a main whilst chatting and drinking that's a long gap, for a crime to take place, if we disregard the checks that were written down.
JMO.

 

[Ardoch]

Yes this is a strong argument against the idea that someone stole and carried through the streets an alive and conscious child.

If someone carried her and she was conscious, there is also the possibility that he could have duped by saying that he was taking her to her parents. That happened in the AMcP case in Scotland.
Even if she struggled a bit and it was seen, it could be explained away that it was a parent carrying a half - sleeping, cranky child back to the holiday apartment. The distance where it would be noticeable was probably quite short. IMO

 

[tedtink]

Just thinking about the 'door angles'.
Could the 'breezy' evening have caused a draft that moved MM's bedroom door twice, slightly, when the patio doors were opened/ closed during checks?
Once when K&G first exited 5A - then again after GM checked.

I know this could quash the theory of someone being in 5a during the checks and that GM had sensed someone there but instead of weaving a theory around every minute detail, this could be a rational explanation, could it not?


It was certainly breezy enough to slam the door shut, by the breeze coming through the window at 10pm.

 

[Victoria Chambers]

I don't think CB would have carried an abducted child through the streets. Where could he have taken her to without another person having knowledge of it all? I doubt he carried her all the way to where he lived. We know he owned a vehicle. Im sure he would have used it. X

 

[Ardoch]

Got another theory that freaks me out if I think about it too much but I’m going to share it to see what others think.

I’m wondering if CB could have gone into the apartment twice. First time for robbery or his own pleasure, (or both) which we know he’s got form for. Ends up killing MM. Leaves her lying in bed. So when later checks are done, she’s in bed, supposedly asleep. After all the adults were checking for the presence of children, not that they were there and still alive.

CB returns to take away her body, either to remove evidence, to satisfy his own perversions or both.

This might also help to explain the dogs evidence as there would be more time for scent to be left.

Just a theory I’m considering a possibility, wanted to see what others think of it?

I think that's plausible.
The fact that the children were alone in the apartment (every night) for me, is a big part of the whole puzzle and a contributory factor in what happened to MM. IMO
He had the chance to be in there with them - for a time. I think that he knew they were there and it wasn't by chance that he came across them. The group of parents and the locations were too visible for this not to have been noted.

Where it's contradictory, based on what we know of his past crimes; is it likely that he would have carried out an attack knowing that the parents could come back?
He presumably planned the attack on the American woman. I'm assuming she lived alone, or had he been watching her movements - visitors etc over a period of time?
The biggest puzzle is trying to put a profile together of CB and his past crimes to fit this one. IMO

 

[tedtink]

I don't think CB would have carried an abducted child through the streets. Where could he have taken her to without another person having knowledge of it all? I doubt he carried her all the way to where he lived. We know he owned a vehicle. Im sure he would have used it. X

Knowing that the Camper wasn't registered in his name and the fact that he re- registered the Jag the next day suggests he could have been driving to and from the camper in the Jag whilst he was living in it.
Perhaps the camper was parked up in a layby or on a beach and he used the Jag to go into PDL that night.

 

[SuperdadV8]

Sombody ever read that reporting?

The jaw-dropping footage of sniffer dogs alerting in McCann apartment and car – The Cadaver Dog Network

If the location of the scents can be confirmed, i would likely tend to a foreign contamination by the intruder. Entering near the flower bed, maybe spent time there lurking around, not to be seen from the lightened street and avoiding a noiseful gate? Maybe hiding in the parents room between the checks or MM had been there, and exiting through the window behind the sofa. Maybe the abductor or the victim had been hurt, due to the blood trace?!

If hidden in the parents closet for a while, could he have contaminated GM's and KM's clothes?

Maybe the abductor never had to enter the childrens room because maddie went to the parents bedroom and had been snatched there? So the abductor chose to leave the apartment by not using the way, the parents used to check for the kids. IMO he could leave through the front door, without being suspiciuos.

The trace behind the sofa could result from a former visit to check the scene and look for possible exits for the next visit? Same perp, same trace?!

There is already a connection to cadaver smell and CB in Neuwegersleben. Who knews, what he did over the day in PDL?! He is known for strong odeur, isn't he?!

 

[tedtink]

I don't think CB would have carried an abducted child through the streets. Where could he have taken her to without another person having knowledge of it all? I doubt he carried her all the way to where he lived. We know he owned a vehicle. Im sure he would have used it. X

Whether he was going into 5A just to burgle OR abduct my guess is that the vehicle (most probably the Jag) would not have been parked too far away.
The Jag is also less conspicuous for carrying out either crime - A lot of peoples (potential witnesses) perceptions and stereotypes of 'smartly dressed' Jaquar drivers as opposed to 'hippy' looking camper drivers can differ and is all part of the perps 'mask' IMO.

 

[redplanet]

Before assessing Eddie's alerts in flat 5A please consider that Eddie also searched, on the very same day: another flat where a doctor had stayed in early May, no alerts, and yet another flat where a doctor had stayed in early May, no alerts, and also yet another flat where a (emergency ward) doctor had stayed in early May, no alerts.

 

[Sharkbite]

Knowing that the Camper wasn't registered in his name and the fact that he re- registered the Jag the next day suggests he could have been driving to and from the camper in the Jag whilst he was living in it.
Perhaps the camper was parked up in a layby or on a beach and he used the Jag to go into PDL that night.

I seem to remember MT mentioning something about CB having the Jag parked up while he was living in the VW in BSJ, I'm not sure exactly what MT meant by that, but I interpreted it as 'parked up' in the immediate area. So that would fit.

Is it correct that on the 03May 2007 the Jag was already registered in someone else's name, and that on the 4th May it was then re-registered to a 3rd person.

If I recall correctly, CB had some problems earlier with regards to living in Portugal for over a certain amount of time but driving a German registered vehicle and that CB changed the registered owner at that time.

 

[redplanet]

Got another theory that freaks me out if I think about it too much but I’m going to share it to see what others think.

I’m wondering if CB could have gone into the apartment twice. First time for robbery or his own pleasure, (or both) which we know he’s got form for. Ends up killing MM. Leaves her lying in bed. So when later checks are done, she’s in bed, supposedly asleep. After all the adults were checking for the presence of children, not that they were there and still alive.

CB returns to take away her body, either to remove evidence, to satisfy his own perversions or both.

This might also help to explain the dogs evidence as there would be more time for scent to be left.

Just a theory I’m considering a possibility, wanted to see what others think of it?

This is interesting thinking IMO because 1: it results in a longer PMI at the property, 2: it would involve temporary concealment at the property.

 

[Zuleika]

Taking a chance once but certainly not twice imo .
GM “ looked down” at Madeleine ? He would have noticed had her position changed more than a little from when she was put to bed.

 

[tedtink]

I think that's plausible.
The fact that the children were alone in the apartment (every night) for me, is a big part of the whole puzzle and a contributory factor in what happened to MM. IMO
He had the chance to be in there with them - for a time. I think that he knew they were there and it wasn't by chance that he came across them. The group of parents and the locations were too visible for this not to have been noted.

Where it's contradictory, based on what we know of his past crimes; is it likely that he would have carried out an attack knowing that the parents could come back?
He presumably planned the attack on the American woman. I'm assuming she lived alone, or had he been watching her movements - visitors etc over a period of time?
The biggest puzzle is trying to put a profile together of CB and his past crimes to fit this one. IMO

I believe his past crimes, burglaries and rape rape were organised and would have taken a certain amount of planning.

Like DLk and others I'm theorising that the burglary of 5A was CB's original intention, if anything it was 'work' to him so I guess a little planning goes into all our work days.
But after entering the apartment and after seeing MM, his impulsive, uncontrolled sexual traits towards children overrode his initial 'planned' burglary.
Not all crimes and psychological profiles fit into a neat little box, We do know CB displayed impulsive behavior (the playground incidents)

OR he woke MM as he entered 5A to burgle, tried to silence her, resulting in death, then took her body to conceal evidence. No abuse may have even taken place.

Also those with ASPD tend to see no danger and have trouble in automatic detection and responsivity to threat so it's entirely possible, in that moment, he didn't even care whether he got caught in the apartment.
JMO


This is from earlier in June.

"German police have not ruled out a sexual motive for the alleged crime against Madeleine, which is being treated as murder by the BKA.

Christian Hoppe of the BKA added that the suspect may have broken into an apartment in the Ocean Club complex in Praia da Luz - where Madeleine was on holiday with her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, and her twin siblings Sean and Amelie - before spontaneously kidnapping her."

'We think Madeleine McCann is dead', say German prosecutors, as suspect named

 

[tedtink]

I seem to remember MT mentioning something about CB having the Jag parked up while he was living in the VW in BSJ, I'm not sure exactly what MT meant by that, but I interpreted it as 'parked up' in the immediate area. So that would fit.

Is it correct that on the 03May 2007 the Jag was already registered in someone else's name, and that on the 4th May it was then re-registered to a 3rd person.

If I recall correctly, CB had some problems earlier with regards to living in Portugal for over a certain amount of time but driving a German registered vehicle and that CB changed the registered owner at that time.

Is it correct that on the 03May 2007 the Jag was already registered in someone else's name, and that on the 4th May it was then re-registered to a 3rd person.

I must have missed that.
My impression was it went from CB's name to AB's?
Who was the 2nd person and was it ever registered in CB's name?

 

[Anxala]

IMO that is not a signature. IMO probably just someone showing PJ how to spell the name???

I agree, I believe both versions were written by ROB. The second one is neater but if you compare the two you can see the same patterns and unique quirks in the handwriting.

Now that I look more closely at the 2, I think you're right re them being written by the same person. I do recall the 2nd one featuring somewhere in the PJ files and it being confirmed as GM (ie. as a match to other handwritten notes of his, which is why I mentioned it) but it was a long time ago and I could well be mistaken.

In any case, it was a group effort so I can't really see the relevance of who actually wrote these timelines? They're hardly any more revealing or any less confusing today as they were then.

@Newthoughts - just to respond to your post also re this, it seems it was ROB's '?' re door open, which does actually make more sense.