Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #21

[Victoria Chambers]

Just thinking about the 'door angles'.
Could the 'breezy' evening have caused a draft that moved MM's bedroom door twice, slightly, when the patio doors were opened/ closed during checks?
Once when K&G first exited 5A - then again after GM checked.

I know this could quash the theory of someone being in 5a during the checks and that GM had sensed someone there but instead of weaving a theory around every minute detail, this could be a rational explanation, could it not?


It was certainly breezy enough to slam the door shut, by the breeze coming through the window at 10pm.

I too, thought about how that door could have been caught by the wind. It did look kind of boxed in with no wind able to come in behind it. It must be caused by a tunnel of wind coming from opposite ends of the apartment. ie, blowing straight through the window and out the back patio doors X

 

[Dlk79]

Is it correct that on the 03May 2007 the Jag was already registered in someone else's name, and that on the 4th May it was then re-registered to a 3rd person.

The whole re-registration thing is a little confusing. In some articles it is claimed the title was transferred to AB the day after, but I've never seen a direct quote from him saying what date it was. So again, I don't know if it's just the Press assuming it was him it was transferred to on the 4th. The confusion about whether there was a different person who it was transferred to on the 4th orignates from a piece in this article from AB-

'At some point I reached the conclusion that he was involved with drugs,' he added, and was in prison in Portugal for two or three months, during which time he handed over the Jaguar car to him.

'When he came out, he was back here quickly, I didn't know more at the time,' he says. Later, he gave the car over to an acquaintance in Munich. 'He always made surprisingly quick decisions,' he added.
Scotland Yard reveals Madeleine McCann cops have had 400 tip-offs

The only prison time CB served around these dates was during 2006. So if the Jag was given to AB then and then later another person, it's possible that it was not AB it was transferred to on the 4th, but this person from Munich. Then again, AB comes across as a genuine person, whereas CB is deceitful so it may be that CB was simply lying about prison and/or the Munich person.

Also, it doesn't actually say the registration was transferred while he was in prison, only that he gave him the keys. So it's possible he just gave it to AB to look after so it didn't get confiscated in lieu of his fine for example. Do we know whether CB ever transferred the car to AB at all, or did he just give it to him to use at some point? The registration on the 4th thing may be something completely separate.

The other confusing aspect is the alleged statement from HCW that the car wasn't even in Portugal on the 3rd.

Mr Wolters played down the significance of the Jaguar despite Scotland Yard appealing for information about it.

He said the car was in Germany when Madeleine went missing and information about it was released only to jog memories. 'The vehicles are not of direct interest for the Madeleine case,' he said.
Madeleine McCann's parents told by German prosecutors that she is dead

I'm a little apprehensive of the statement the Jag was in Germany only because it is not a direct quote from HCW. But, by the same token, that's not an easy fact to misinterpret. So, if true, it begs the question what prompted CB to transfer the registration on the 4th if he was in Portugal and the car was in Germany? A possible motive was for an alibi to claim he was in Germany. Or, maybe he sold it to an acquaintance (not AB) as he needed money quickly. Possibly to lay low after the crime.

 

[Dlk79]

I too, thought about how that door could have been caught by the wind. It did look kind of boxed in with no wind able to come in behind it. It must be caused by a tunnel of wind coming from opposite ends of the apartment. ie, blowing straight through the window and out the back patio doors X

That' always been my thought, that Kate left the patio door open in her check. Internal doors don't slam shut like that unless there is a passage for the air to go from point A to point B. Which could mean that the window was open during the other checks too in theory except that they didn't leave the patio door open long enough for the door to slam. Just a possibility.

 

[SuperdadV8]

Wasn't it reported, that the tapas group consumed some bottles of wine, even the MM's one single bottle before the dinner? This could alter the perception a lot IMO.

And i can confirm that by myself....

 

[Okapi]

Got another theory that freaks me out if I think about it too much but I’m going to share it to see what others think.

I’m wondering if CB could have gone into the apartment twice. First time for robbery or his own pleasure, (or both) which we know he’s got form for. Ends up killing MM. Leaves her lying in bed. So when later checks are done, she’s in bed, supposedly asleep. After all the adults were checking for the presence of children, not that they were there and still alive.

CB returns to take away her body, either to remove evidence, to satisfy his own perversions or both.

This might also help to explain the dogs evidence as there would be more time for scent to be left.

Just a theory I’m considering a possibility, wanted to see what others think of it?

Yes, I wondered about that when I wrote my last post about the dog alerts. The discussion actually begs the question - does the time between when MBM was last witnessed definitely alive and discovered missing allow time for her death and cadaver scent to develop?

Although if a cadaver smell was on the perpetrator or his clothes already, that may be irrelevant.

 

[Okapi]

Sombody ever read that reporting?

The jaw-dropping footage of sniffer dogs alerting in McCann apartment and car – The Cadaver Dog Network

If the location of the scents can be confirmed, i would likely tend to a foreign contamination by the intruder. Entering near the flower bed, maybe spent time there lurking around, not to be seen from the lightened street and avoiding a noiseful gate? Maybe hiding in the parents room between the checks or MM had been there, and exiting through the window behind the sofa. Maybe the abductor or the victim had been hurt, due to the blood trace?!

If hidden in the parents closet for a while, could he have contaminated GM's and KM's clothes?

Maybe the abductor never had to enter the childrens room because maddie went to the parents bedroom and had been snatched there? So the abductor chose to leave the apartment by not using the way, the parents used to check for the kids. IMO he could leave through the front door, without being suspiciuos.

The trace behind the sofa could result from a former visit to check the scene and look for possible exits for the next visit? Same perp, same trace?!

There is already a connection to cadaver smell and CB in Neuwegersleben. Who knews, what he did over the day in PDL?! He is known for strong odeur, isn't he?!

Agreed.

 

[Anxala]

This is one aspect I always hoped we would see the witnesses examined - but it seems unlikely it ever will happen now.

I doubt it too.

I can understand why the Tapas 9 collectively refused to participate in a reconstruction as it couldn't but draw further and unwanted and unhelpful attention, again, upon their 'child-care' arrangements. They wanted, imo, a line drawn under what turned out to be their holiday from hell.

Interestingly, had they participated and had they been objectively and entirely focused on the small disappeared child, rather than subjectively focused on themselves and how their own behaviour made them look to a wider audience, none of the current door angle/window position would be seen as pertinent and/or significant in the way it continues to be on here.

 

[Dlk79]

Interestingly, had they participated, had they been better people, focused on the small child at the heart of this mystery, none of the door angles nonsense and all the other window etc etc nonsense would still be up for discussion.

Why do you say that? Had they done a reconstruction it would only likely have been a reanactment of their statements. And even if it did throw up some problem with their timeline, I don't see how it would put to bed any of the questions about the door and window...?

 

[Victoria Chambers]

Yes, I wondered about that when I wrote my last post about the dog alerts. The discussion actually begs the question - does the time between when MBM was last witnessed definitely alive and discovered missing allow time for her death and cadaver scent to develop?

Although if a cadaver smell was on the perpetrator or his clothes already, that may be irrelevant.

I've been reading up on cadaver dogs. And from 3 different studies came 3 widely different time frames. Each claiming a dog can pick up the scent of a cadaver 90 minutes deceased. 120 minutes deceased. Up to 3 hours after death. Also I really did not expect to read about so many false positives that they alert to. Trained to recover humans but will dig up rabbits and whatnot. That to be expected mind! I even thought cadaver dogs were a tool long before they were first used in the 90s (according to one website). Alerts are usually Non admissable in court neither. Ive always thought cadaver dog were miraculous workers. Feeling quite deflated now X

 

[Denis R Tandib]

That' always been my thought, that Kate left the patio door open in her check. Internal doors don't slam shut like that unless there is a passage for the air to go from point A to point B. Which could mean that the window was open during the other checks too in theory except that they didn't leave the patio door open long enough for the door to slam. Just a possibility.

I think that if the window were open during GM’s check, it’s likely he would have noticed - temperature and brightness (if curtains were open too). But the door had moved inexplicably too at this point - pre GM’s check, I don’t think the wind offers any explanation of this.

Given the brevity of MO’s check it’s possible that the room was in exactly the same state during his check as it was at KM’s.

As you and others have mentioned, I think that airflow needs an entrance and an exit to move doors and while I’m not 100% certain, I think they are always blown shut. Looking at it the other way, I’m not sure it’s possible for an interior door to be blown open with only one air source - at least, this IMO is unlikely.

In conjunction with the timing, I think that the intruder would have anticipated a safer time period earlier on in the T9 dinner, an entry prior to GM’s check, opening the door prior to his entry and then reopening it and the window after is also possible and aligned to the scant info we have.

This opens the door (so to speak) to the Smithman sighting. I think that the McCanns themselves like this theory which may be why they have kept Smithman on their website despite OG seemingly ruling him out - JMO.

 

[C.greek]

Wasn't it reported, that the tapas group consumed some bottles of wine, even the MM's one single bottle before the dinner? This could alter the perception a lot IMO.

And i can confirm that by myself....

There were 8 people if I am not mistaken. 1 bottle is 4 glasses? So a glass each would make 2 bottles. Let's say 2 glasses each - 4 bottles. I am not sure how many glasses a person can have in 15 minutes? But isnt that the amount of time GM stayed at the table before his check? Or have I got it wrong? In any case 2 glasses for a person who is used to drinking is not such an excessive amount that your perception would change. JMO

 

[Denis R Tandib]

There were 8 people if I am not mistaken. 1 bottle is 4 glasses? So a glass each would make 2 bottles. Let's say 2 glasses each - 4 bottles. I am not sure how many glasses a person can have in 15 minutes? But isnt that the amount of time GM stayed at the table before his check? Or have I got it wrong? In any case 2 glasses for a person who is used to drinking is not such an excessive amount that your perception would change. JMO

A bottle of wine is 7 to 8 standard drinks depending on alcohol level. GM and KM were drinking before the left 5A and were probably at the restaurant for 30mins before GM’s check. IMO, he would be affected by alcohol at this point, not drunk but I think he would be over the legal limit for driving in most countries.

 

[redplanet]

That wouldn't really fit the BKA appeal, which puts the time of the event between 09:10 and 10.00 pm IMO. I think this assumption would be the result of the former investigations, maybe including one of the ominous confessions, that have been reported by the media?!

That' always been my thought, that Kate left the patio door open in her check. Internal doors don't slam shut like that unless there is a passage for the air to go from point A to point B. Which could mean that the window was open during the other checks too in theory except that they didn't leave the patio door open long enough for the door to slam. Just a possibility.

KM checked and confirmed she had not left the patio door open. Source: book p71 (ETA Here snipped by me, please see book for full text)

".... (I) gently began to pull it to .... suddenly it slammed shut .... I turned to see if I'd left the patio doors open .... retracing my steps I confirmed that I hadn't"

 

[SuperdadV8]

There were 8 people if I am not mistaken. 1 bottle is 4 glasses? So a glass each would make 2 bottles. Let's say 2 glasses each - 4 bottles. I am not sure how many glasses a person can have in 15 minutes? But isnt that the amount of time GM stayed at the table before his check? Or have I got it wrong? In any case 2 glasses for a person who is used to drinking is not such an excessive amount that your perception would change. JMO

Normally a bottle of wine should fit about 7, maybe 8 glasses. In germany, a glass of wine is about 0.1 litres. I do not know about usual portugese tariffs. According to some reports, the MC's shared a bottle before dinner in about 35 minutes? Thats "sporty", without commenting it in any way. And believe me if i say, i do drink often and maybe too much!

So.... meeting friends to dinner afterwards, end of vacation awaiting, our waiter would have to do a lot of work! I'm honest with that.

I would assume, that even one bottle of wine (normally 0.75 liters, in southern european regions mabye 1.0 liters) before dinner in not even less than half an hour, would have been a initial ignition to me and i am a trained consumer.

And afterwards more wine/alcohol in a group session or dinner?!

IMO no way to stay as focused, as in sober condition. JMO.

 

[C.greek]

Normally a bottle of wine should fit about 7, maybe 8 glasses. In germany, a glass of wine is about 0.1 litres. I do not know about usual portugese tariffs. According to some reports, the MC's shared a bottle before dinner in about 35 minutes? Thats "sporty", without commenting it in any way. And believe me if i say, i do drink often and maybe too much!

So.... meeting friends to dinner afterwards, end of vacation awaiting, our waiter would have to do a lot of work! I'm honest with that.

I would assume, that even one bottle of wine (normally 0.75 liters, in southern european regions mabye 1.0 liters) before dinner in not even less than half an hour, would have been a initial ignition to me and i am a trained consumer.

And afterward more wine in a group?!

IMO no way to stay as focused, as in sober condition. JMO.

I don't drink but I thought a bottle of wine gave 4 glasses?! Where did i get this from ?
We might need some expert in biochemistry here (?) But wouldn't adrenaline minimise the effects from alcohol?

 

[SuperdadV8]

We might need some expert in biochemistry here (?) But wouldn't adrenaline minimise the effects from alcohol?

Of course!

 

[tedtink]

I don't drink but I thought a bottle of wine gave 4 glasses?! Where did i get this from ?
We might need some expert in biochemistry here (?) But wouldn't adrenaline minimise the effects from alcohol?

My bottle of wine contains 2 glasses!

I don't think adrenaline would have kicked in until 10pm - that's after the checks, door angles, windy windows, hidden perps though.

 

[SuperdadV8]

I don't drink but I thought a bottle of wine gave 4 glasses?! Where did i get this from ?
We might need some expert in biochemistry here (?) But wouldn't adrenaline minimise the effects from alcohol?

It depends on the size of the bottle and the size of the glasses!

 

[SuperdadV8]

My bottle of wine contains 2 glasses!

Great, where is that glass to buy?

 

[tedtink]

It depends on the size of the bottle and the size of the glasses!

Do you use shot glasses for wine in Germany?