Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #21

[tedtink]

If there was an intruder during wednesday evening dinner then it is hypothetically possible that there may have been forensic evidence on the pj top.

The brown stain - What type of forensic evidence that could have come from the perp, that can easily be washed off cotton fabric could be brown?
Am I missing something here?

 

[Zuleika]

I’m having difficulty understanding how anyone would notice a man’s jawline in that kind of light .

Martin Smith recalls a black jacket in his second statement ? That wasn’t in Crimewatch was it ?
I was believing that sighting until I saw what MS had added . Now I’m on the fence .
MS told The Sun when shown a picture of CB “ I don’t recognise that man “


Finally, in the Malaga footage, one month before MM’s abduction, CB has brown hair ? Is there footage of that available ?

 

[Zuleika]

Brown stain ? Something the alleged perpetrator was chewing ?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Just a minor detail, AS age 12 (daughter of M+M) gave the statement you refer to, but it was SS (daughterinlaw of M+M) who was pregnant. And it was TS age 13 (grandson of M+M) who remembered the black jacket.

You’re correct, my mistake. I did think that the “blazer” revision was made by MS in his follow-up statement in September?

 

[tedtink]

I’m having difficulty understanding how anyone would notice a man’s jawline in that kind of light .

Martin Smith recalls a black jacket in his second statement ? That wasn’t in Crimewatch was it ?
I was believing that sighting until I saw what MS had added . Now I’m on the fence .
MS told The Sun when shown a picture of CB “ I don’t recognise that man “


Finally, in the Malaga footage, one month before MM’s abduction, CB has brown hair ? Is there footage of that available ?

Yes here.............

Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner in 'kidnap' campervan weeks before she vanished | Daily Mail Online

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I’m having difficulty understanding how anyone would notice a man’s jawline in that kind of light .

Martin Smith recalls a black jacket in his second statement ? That wasn’t in Crimewatch was it ?
I was believing that sighting until I saw what MS had added . Now I’m on the fence .
MS told The Sun when shown a picture of CB “ I don’t recognise that man “


Finally, in the Malaga footage, one month before MM’s abduction, CB has brown hair ? Is there footage of that available ?

On the jacket, see @redplanet comment above, TS provided this info.

Re the Malaga footage:

Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner in 'kidnap' campervan weeks before she vanished | Daily Mail Online

IMO, if it wasn’t MM being carried, it’s remarkable coincidence which is more interesting given that Smithman has never come forward.

ETA: On the jaw line, I think people notice things more that stand out. There is some street lighting at that junction so it wasn’t pitched black. If you look at the e-fit images, one shows a very asymmetric jaw and the other, quite a square jaw. IMO, there was something going on with Smithman’s jaw and we know that CB has a prominent jaw and has had surgery on it.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Brown stain ? Something the alleged perpetrator was chewing ?

Are you talking about the supposed tea stain on MM’s pyjamas?

 

[redplanet]

You’re correct, my mistake. I did think that the “blazer” revision was made by MS in his follow-up statement in September?

The statement by PS (son of M+M) on 26/5/2007 says:" Adds further that his son T was questioned in Ireland and said that the individual was dressed in a long-sleeved coat/jacket, black in colour, and that the child was barefoot.". Maybe MS repeated the same later, not sure?
IMO athough wearing a jacket may match CB dress style, so also it matches the dress style of many other men.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I’m having difficulty understanding how anyone would notice a man’s jawline in that kind of light .

Martin Smith recalls a black jacket in his second statement ? That wasn’t in Crimewatch was it ?
I was believing that sighting until I saw what MS had added . Now I’m on the fence .
MS told The Sun when shown a picture of CB “ I don’t recognise that man “


Finally, in the Malaga footage, one month before MM’s abduction, CB has brown hair ? Is there footage of that available ?

The statement by PS (son of M+M) on 26/5/2007 says:" Adds further that his son T was questioned in Ireland and said that the individual was dressed in a long-sleeved coat/jacket, black in colour, and that the child was barefoot.". Maybe MS repeated the same later, not sure?
IMO athough wearing a jacket may match CB dress style, so also it matches the dress style of many other men.

I agree, although it matches far fewer in a tourist town in the Algarve with a population of ~3.5k.

 

[redplanet]

Are you talking about the supposed tea stain on MM’s pyjamas?

Yes. But I have read MM did not have any tea (the beverage) during the relevant period (after bedtime 2nd but before breakfast 3rd) therefore the one substance that can be eliminated is tea IMO.

 

[redplanet]

I agree, although it matches far fewer in a tourist town in the Algarve with a population of ~3.5k.

I wish we could know what clothing CB was wearing that evening. But at least we do know what clothing the missing child was wearing.

 

[redplanet]

Brown stain ? Something the alleged perpetrator was chewing ?

There are IMO various possible non-tea answers. I hadn't thought of that one.

 

[tedtink]

There are IMO various possible non-tea answers. I hadn't thought of that one.

Not trying to put you on the 'SPOT' (excuse the pun)
Please enlighten us - I'm wracking my brains here trying to think of something that you say could have had forensic significance that resulted in a large brown stain?

 

[redplanet]

Not trying to put you on the 'SPOT' (excuse the pun)
Please enlighten us - I'm wracking my brains here trying to think of something that you say could have had forensic significance that resulted in a large brown stain?

It was pointed out as unusual by the mother therefore IMO any theory of CB entering on evening 2nd should consider its possible relevance. An ordinary explanation might be simply regurgitation of some food while the adults were at dinner (similar as evening 3rd another apartment)

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I wish we could know what clothing CB was wearing that evening. But at least we do know what clothing the missing child was wearing.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up but I have a hunch that the selfie published in Der Spiegel and shared on here by @SuperdadV8 where CB is giving the three-finger salute is from 3 May 2007 or early hours 4 May 2007. It’s now been deleted.

 

[Quietey]

Just a thought regarding the appeal for holidaymakers to submit photographs - I wondered whether this might be aiming at not just placing CB in the area but also for evidence of who he mixed with, his appearance at the time, and possibly even the items of clothing, shoes etc that he owned.

Edited - LOL I hadn't seen the posts above about clothing when I was thinking this

 

[snowpea666]

In relation to age, it depends on which of the Smith family statements you mean, across the three the range in 30-40. Although CB moved in hippy circles, he seemed to try to distance himself from the culture ... his regular way of dressing was slacks, shirt and jacket - if CB was Smithman IMO this could have influenced the age description.

IMO, the description by AS is the most important, she was pregnant at the time which means she was completely sober and perhaps more aware of a small child being carried through the streets at night.

I posted this before in response to a post by @tedtink:

I've dismissed the Smith sighting in the past but it would certainly support your @Denis R Tandibpost and Dlk's theory and after re-reading the witness statement some of the sentences take on a very different meaning.

"he was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour.

The child has blonde medium-hued hair, without being very light. Her skin was very white, typical of a Brit. He did not notice her eyes as she was asleep and her eyelids were closed

He adds that he did not hold the child in a comfortable position, suggesting [the carrying] not being habitual

Questioned, says that the individual did not speak nor did the child as she was in a deep sleep.

P.J. POLICE FILES: MARTIN SMITH & FAMILY STATEMENTS

Click to expand...

I agree and just a couple of points to add. The Smith family didn’t think the man was a tourist. In the revised statement from MS in September 2007 he added that the man was wearing a blazer. These things, to me indicate it could have been CB.

The photo fits of the man suggest an abnormal jaw line. Again a potential match for CB.

Finally, in the Malaga footage, one month before MM’s abduction, CB has brown hair.

Put these things together with dark environment and relatively quick sighting and I think it’s a fairly strong possibility.

"It's not him": Maddie's witness dismisses Brueckner as suspect - Portugal - World Today News
“I was shown the photographs that were released, but all I remember is what is in the testimony to the police. There is nothing I can add about it, it was 13 years ago. But I know I don’t recognize this man [Christian Brueckner]. He is not the man I saw “, defends Martin in an interview with the English press.

 

[Okapi]

In relation to age, it depends on which of the Smith family statements you mean, across the three the range in 30-40. Although CB moved in hippy circles, he seemed to try to distance himself from the culture ... his regular way of dressing was slacks, shirt and jacket - if CB was Smithman IMO this could have influenced the age description.

IMO, the description by AS is the most important, she was pregnant at the time which means she was completely sober and perhaps more aware of a small child being carried through the streets at night.

I posted this before in response to a post by @tedtink:

I've dismissed the Smith sighting in the past but it would certainly support your @Denis R Tandibpost and Dlk's theory and after re-reading the witness statement some of the sentences take on a very different meaning.

"he was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour.

The child has blonde medium-hued hair, without being very light. Her skin was very white, typical of a Brit. He did not notice her eyes as she was asleep and her eyelids were closed

He adds that he did not hold the child in a comfortable position, suggesting [the carrying] not being habitual

Questioned, says that the individual did not speak nor did the child as she was in a deep sleep.

P.J. POLICE FILES: MARTIN SMITH & FAMILY STATEMENTS

Click to expand...

I agree and just a couple of points to add. The Smith family didn’t think the man was a tourist. In the revised statement from MS in September 2007 he added that the man was wearing a blazer. These things, to me indicate it could have been CB.

The photo fits of the man suggest an abnormal jaw line. Again a potential match for CB.

Finally, in the Malaga footage, one month before MM’s abduction, CB has brown hair.

Put these things together with dark environment and relatively quick sighting and I think it’s a fairly strong possibility.

Good post

 

[Okapi]

On the jacket, see @redplanet comment above, TS provided this info.

Re the Malaga footage:

Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner in 'kidnap' campervan weeks before she vanished | Daily Mail Online

IMO, if it wasn’t MM being carried, it’s remarkable coincidence which is more interesting given that Smithman has never come forward.

ETA: On the jaw line, I think people notice things more that stand out. There is some street lighting at that junction so it wasn’t pitched black. If you look at the e-fit images, one shows a very asymmetric jaw and the other, quite a square jaw. IMO, there was something going on with Smithman’s jaw and we know that CB has a prominent jaw and has had surgery on it.

Also, didn't

On the jacket, see @redplanet comment above, TS provided this info.

Re the Malaga footage:

Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner in 'kidnap' campervan weeks before she vanished | Daily Mail Online

IMO, if it wasn’t MM being carried, it’s remarkable coincidence which is more interesting given that Smithman has never come forward.

ETA: On the jaw line, I think people notice things more that stand out. There is some street lighting at that junction so it wasn’t pitched black. If you look at the e-fit images, one shows a very asymmetric jaw and the other, quite a square jaw. IMO, there was something going on with Smithman’s jaw and we know that CB has a prominent jaw and has had surgery on it.

Also, didn't the Smiths say the man walked with his head inclined down, not making eye contact?Frankly IMO that was quite furtive behaviour.

 

[Loobyloo]

Are there known cases of abductions of carrying the concious or unconscious child through a town? Normally children use to be abducted quickly by using a vehicle to transport it to a safe location.

Otherwise that "safe" location must be right near in the area of the abduction IMO. A nearby flat maybe or a nearby parked vehicle.

Hard to think, that Smithman has been the abductor IMO.

[my bold]

There was a vacant apartment nearby, wasn't there? This could have been used as a 'staging post'. (Do we know when/whether the other apartment was searched/checked for forensics?)

If FF is going to argue that CB only had a very short time window to remove MM from her own apartment, this could perhaps be challenged if she was initially only moved nearby & then carried away from the empty apartment when the coast was clear.