Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #21

[Ardoch]

I've been following this particular topic for twenty - one Threads, over six months, and I have to sit it out sometimes because the nature of it is appalling and highlights what's happening to innocent children around the world.
I applaud all the services who are investigating this and what that entails.

 

[Victoria Chambers]

I have said a good few times on this forum I can NEVER shake the horrible feeling I have with RM and SM, and RM girlfriend ! just really from the first few weeks, just my op but ......

I agree with you. You know the social worker who turned up at 5a in the hope of helping. She went on to describe a man being there, she thought he was a friend of K&G. He helped move the twins cots out with an older woman and she said he talking with, whom she believed to be plain clothes police. He ushered the McCanns away from a conversation they were having with the social worker. And also appeared to engage with the media. She said she felt uneasy around him, claiming to have recognised him from probably her own workload. She described him has having short dark hair, glasses, scar above an eye and a scar on his left cheek.. She identified him as DP. But that description is of RM. I know he is blind in 1 eye, so possibly a scar there. More noticeable is the scar on his left cheek! The whole of Luz seems to work in Real Estate or are experts with computers. I can't put my finger on it, but it just feels dodgy to me! X

 

[Midwestmom2019]

The phrase "single piece" is rather interesting because it appears to match what HCW says: there is one piece of concrete evidence which determines simultaneously not only the exact category of crime which occurred, but also who did it (source: aussie podcast HCW interview). So that one piece of evidence is IMO what is "not necessarily" being shared to OG.

One piece can turn a case completely over
and go the other way. You’d think everyone could get on one page to solve crimes. Save time. Save resources. Save face.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I agree with you. You know the social worker who turned up at 5a in the hope of helping. She went on to describe a man being there, she thought he was a friend of K&G. He helped move the twins cots out with an older woman and she said he talking with, whom she believed to be plain clothes police. He ushered the McCanns away from a conversation they were having with the social worker. And also appeared to engage with the media. She said she felt uneasy around him, claiming to have recognised him from probably her own workload. She described him has having short dark hair, glasses, scar above an eye and a scar on his left cheek.. She identified him as DP. But that description is of RM. I know he is blind in 1 eye, so possibly a scar there. More noticeable is the scar on his left cheek! The whole of Luz seems to work in Real Estate or are experts with computers. I can't put my finger on it, but it just feels dodgy to me! X

In the first hour or two, one can only imagine the panic and confusion going on. It’s not surprising that so much was missed, not verified, or not considered. All the competing interests: a missing child, tourist trade and national interests. Hindsight is always perfect. Perhaps this case could formulate a single protocol in LE work to resolve missing children cases. Treat all reports of missing children with immediate consideration of the worst case scenario. Not maybe they walked off. Not runaways. But stranger abduction with life threatening consequences to the child. 4 or 14 or whatever age they might be. “See something say something.” Without worry of legal ramifications of false accusations. Good Samaritan type of protection that applies in other situations, like vehicular accidents.

 

[Zuleika]

I guess we can only speculate. Lost children will often trust someone helping them find their parents. She may have had the stranger danger talk, and yet paedophiles are frequently gifted at talking down a child's defenses. The Big Bad Wolf indeed.

But I still don't think he talked her out of the apartment. I'm still leaning towards the harmed in situ and removed theory for all the reasons mooted upthread.

I wonder if we will ever know the truth of exactly how she left 5a, even if she is eventually found or CB brought to trial.

Harmed in situ and removed ? Are you meaning harmed as in dead because there wouldn’t be time for cadaverine to develop for Eddie to alert to ?

 

[SuperdadV8]

IMO the cadaver smell could easily had been brought into the apartment, because it had been detected at other locations outside of it either.

So it's origin doesn't must have been IN 5A....

 

[Zuleika]

IMO the cadaver smell could easily had been brought into the apartment, because it had been detected at other locations outside of it either.

So it's origin doesn't must have been IN 5A....

Brought in ? ! How ? Other locations ? You mean the flowerbed for instance ?

 

[SuperdadV8]

Brought in ? ! How ? Other locations ? You mean the flowerbed for instance ?

Yes, i could imagine, that someone who is related to cadaver smell and has been in 5A for some time, has contaminated that area.

Seems more plausible to me, than a dead MM rested about at least 2-3 hours there.

 

[redplanet]

Yes, i could imagine, that someone who is related to cadaver smell and has been in 5A for some time, has contaminated that area.

Seems more plausible to me, than a dead MM rested about at least 2-3 hours there.

1H10M is enough.
IMO probably 0H10M is enough.
It is logistically very difficult to obtain scent-pad samples from human subjects who passed away only 10 minutes ago, therefore there have been no studies at times like 10 minutes.

 

[Zuleika]

1H10M is enough.
IMO probably 0H10M is enough.
It is logistically very difficult to obtain scent-pad samples from human subjects who passed away only 10 minutes ago, therefore there have been no studies at times like 10 minutes.

Ok then so make it 70 minutes . Eddie alerted to the wardrobe/cupboard ? A cadaver has been placed there? Or this person who related to cadaver odour....is that right? ....contaminated the area ? Then what ?

 

[redplanet]

I agree with you. You know the social worker who turned up at 5a in the hope of helping. She went on to describe a man being there, she thought he was a friend of K&G. He helped move the twins cots out with an older woman and she said he talking with, whom she believed to be plain clothes police. He ushered the McCanns away from a conversation they were having with the social worker. And also appeared to engage with the media. She said she felt uneasy around him, claiming to have recognised him from probably her own workload. She described him has having short dark hair, glasses, scar above an eye and a scar on his left cheek.. She identified him as DP. But that description is of RM. I know he is blind in 1 eye, so possibly a scar there. More noticeable is the scar on his left cheek! The whole of Luz seems to work in Real Estate or are experts with computers. I can't put my finger on it, but it just feels dodgy to me! X

But did you read this in YM's statement?
"the couple replied that he was a close friend of the family"
Surely it is obvious that YM was not talking about RM.

 

[Okapi]

I think we could all postulate 100 different plausible scenarios for the encounter between MM and the person who took her.

IMOO, I don't think MM was alert when she left, and I've based that on the following observations.

All witnesses in both sightings spoke of a "sleeping" child, suggesting she was either heavily asleep, unconscious or dead.

She didn't take Cuddle Cat, who went everywhere with her.

Her siblings slept on undisturbed.

HCW has skirted around using the word "kidnapping" or "abduction." Suggesting it was not a live child taken from the apartment.

The cadever dog alerts indicate that either the child died there, or someone had who'd handled a corpse or wore "perp clothes" cross contaminated clothes and furnishings.

The T9 timelines don't give us a time that MM was last seen definitely alive in the ~hour before she was reported missing. CB has form for secretly lurking in apartments, e.g. his ex. Taken together, these factors suggest to me a longer window for both the harm to occur and the perpetrator to lie low before safely exiting with the child.

I am undecided if MM was alive or dead when she was taken, but I do think she was incapacitated.

Just trying to explain the reasoning behind my own speculation.

 

[Okapi]

I've been following this particular topic for twenty - one Threads, over six months, and I have to sit it out sometimes because the nature of it is appalling and highlights what's happening to innocent children around the world.
I applaud all the services who are investigating this and what that entails.

I agree Ardoch.

A paedophile tried to abduct my 10-year old-sister in the mid-90s, she was literally rescued by LE, and that is honestly a big motivation in my interest in this case. Because we look back with horror on how easily it can happen.

 

[redplanet]

Ok then so make it 70 minutes . Eddie alerted to the wardrobe/cupboard ? A cadaver has been placed there? Or this person who related to cadaver odour....is that right? ....contaminated the area ? Then what ?

An elapsed time of 70 minutes will not fit even within a maximised 21:10-22:00 period and this is why I suggest IMO 5 or 10 elapsed minutes may be sufficient. Such short times have (for practical reasons) never been studied. The biochemical changes begin immediately, and I assume those changes would be detectable by trained dogs after a few p-m minutes IMO.

 

[Tabech29]

Is the closet big enough to have fit her little body? And how long did she have to be in the closet then later behind the couch, for cadaverin to have set? I have always taken the dogs alerts with a pile of salt, many things that could have set this "alerts".

 

[Zuleika]

An elapsed time of 70 minutes will not fit even within a maximised 21:10-22:00 period and this is why I suggest IMO 5 or 10 elapsed minutes may be sufficient. Such short times have (for practical reasons) never been studied. The biochemical changes begin immediately, and I assume those changes would be detectable by trained dogs after a few p-m minutes IMO.

Re your assuming what the dog’s could do ,in her book ,page 120 , KM says ( recalling her being told cadaver dogs were being brought over) “ did they really believe a dog could smell the odour of death three months later from a body that had been removed so swiftly ?”
I find this statement ....no .... those last nine words very strange .

 

[redplanet]

Re your assuming what the dog’s could do ,in her book ,page 120 , KM says ( recalling her being told cadaver dogs were being brought over) “ did they really believe a dog could smell the odour of death three months later from a body that had been removed so swiftly ?”
I find this statement ....no .... those last nine words very strange .

The straightforward reason for those words is: that is what the investigation was (wrongly and incompetently) accusing her of at the time.
If that investigation had instead studied the still and video photography carefully, they would have found an intruder-based solution.

 

[redplanet]

When a few big mistakes by the original investigation are corrected, an intruder-based solution emerges IMO.

 

[Zuleika]

The straightforward reason for those words is: that is what the investigation was (wrongly and incompetently) accusing her of at the time.
If that investigation had instead studied the still and video photography carefully, they would have found an intruder-based solution.

I don’t recall she’d been accused at that point prior to the dogs arrival ?
Re your last paragraph please will you direct me to where I can find that .

 

[photographer4]

Can you rule out, if the pic has been photoshopped? The front wheel looks like if it has been altered IMO.

View attachment 274466

Its hard to be sure one way or the other but it could just be the aperture used has blurred out whatever is farther away from the lens. Its an easy photoshop job or an easy in camera thing to do. I can't rule photoshop / alteration in or out!

EDITED TO EXPLAIN:
- things closest the end of the lens will always appear bigger than other things in the photo. This is why your hand looks bigger than it might otherwise if you take a photo of your arm and extend your arms toward the lens like superman.
- If you follow the link, you can learn a bit about camera settings that affect how the end photo will turn out. You have to remember, adjusting one setting will affect all the other settings: Exposure | ExposureGuide.com
- Also, if a photo was taken in low light, or darkess, you'd need flash or some source of light (streetlight?) to illuminate the subject or you risk it blurring. Alternatively, you can shoot at night using a tripod, or a super steady hand and a fast lens aperture. Otherwise, its gonna blur.

In short: what you're seeing in the wheel of the photo could be due to camera settings, flash, available light or lack thereof or straight up photo manipulation. I'm wagering its probably just the camera settings / angle and light.