Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #22

[vermisstekindersuche]

You mean CB as kind of a lackey to the real perpetrators? Just the smallest part of the machine or what?

No. If CB did do the MM "killing" he might have been there just to rob, it might have turned sexual, it might have been planned and it might even have been something among the lines of someone paying him to kidnap the girl or even just to dispose of the body, all options are at stake as I don't have further data.

 

[C.greek]

Gut feeling/instinct only.

I'm not saying that HCW is trying to blame CB over the MM crime without solid ground.

I'm saying that HCW looks like (to me) as either having some issues with CB (to hate him in a "personal way") or he does have personal interest on MM case.

We see prosecuters talking on media about many diferent matters/cases and no-one does stuff like HCW to go to the trouble of even "replying" to every single media query and even that stuff that they publish when the MM parents were questioning HCW because he diedn't questioned CB, etc ... he didn't have to reply and even less on the public media. He didn't have to make this go "so far" ... like if the MM case (or MM, or whatever) is somehow "very special" for him so that he goes to all the trouble to find the truth and place CB in jail over that particular case for good.

Take for example the case of the "prostitute" that I did mentioned some posts ago. CB was the prime suspect over that case (if we are to believe on what is stated on the press) and yet no-one went to the tabloids making all the "fuss" that HCW is doing over MM. Even now, why HCW doesn't re-enforce that CB have to be re-investigated over those matters ?

FORTUNATLY (at some rate) they are no longer talking about it and linking cases but it does look like that MM query/investigation is the "big price" to HCW.

He could simply stay quiet and only say on the press that investigation is undergoing or if he wanted to talk he could provide more leads/details on the 3 crimes that CB is also acused of making in portugal and those most likely will get him charged for sure yet they only briefly mentioned those on the media (exposure to minors, rape of another woman, etc) while HCW keeps on saying that he will go as far as he can to crack the MM case and charge CB over it.

Simply looks a little bit "personal". I can "feel" it well. It's like if you are a police investigator working with 100 cases but you have a case or two that are "special" to you for whatever reason. You can "feel" somehow that HCW have a certain "dedication" that goes over the duty of work only.

That is what I "feel". I might be wrong. But if i'm correct oit might cloud/blind the "investigator" as he might end up be motivated and driven by feelings.

I don't see the effort put by HCW as indicative of a personal feud or mission against CB. The MM case has been one that has rocked many countries and people. Especially when one considers that a 3 year old child went missing while on vacation I fully understand all this interest in the case. I believe HCW has the strong evidence he says he does that proves MM was killed by CB. From what I gathered they have also had access to places CB used to live so no need to have a warrant per se. And I don't think he is being linked for the moment to any other children's disappearance.

 

[vermisstekindersuche]

You mean CB as kind of a lackey to the real perpetrators? Just the smallest part of the machine or what?

Let's see I did never "pretend" to know about the MM case.

As far as it goes it can be many things, i did never exclude any option.

I don't know if the crime was on the apartment, If MM did exit the apartment, If someone was there or not more than one time, the night after the crime, etc.

It might have been a robery went wrong,
It might be planned, It might not.

This is not a case where i can exclude some options right away ... So I don't know.

I wouldn't be able to "classify" the type of crime as well.

I can't even make my mind about if it was planned or not...

 

[tedtink]

NO, NO.

Unfortunatly on MM case I think it's quite impossible for it to be accidental death.

When I did talk about accidental death on previouse posts I was talking about some other cases and I did even menioned René as example that PJ was saying to the family that the boy simply drowned and as a matter of fact no matter what so far that can't be excluded as well. I was never saying that MM died by "accicdent" as goes without saying that even that were to happen someone would still need to remove the body from the room ... Unless she did went out alone but on PDL she would have been found by sure. There are no other factors that can explain the body to disapear.
For example on another case that I will not mention I can see very well several ways for the body of a little girl to "disapear" for good never to be found IN CERTAIN conditions and with the presence of certain elements without human intervention. THIS IS NOT the case with a girl that is sleeping on the bed and wents missing from apartment room, even less if she were on the public street.

Accidental death in MM context would only apply over the route that this forum rules don't allow to discuss (GA idea), but I don't think that it was the case as well so NO, by all means, even if MM did die by falling of sofa/bed/whatever someone would still need to move the body. She might have been killed on the apartment, she might have left alive, etc ... I don't even know if she would be able to open the door by herself but even so if she were to fall on PDL the body would be found FOR SURE. Same doesn't apply for example on case one can fall on the water under some enviroments or even get lost on wood/mountains, etc ... He have seeral cases of that here in PT. He even have people who commited suicide and other people saw them trowing to water by jumping from high places and the body couldn't be recovered and did never came to shore. But MM would not reach the water on PDL by accident without anyone be able to see her / stop her at the hour she went missing. Is not that she would be on a deserted place at 4 AM in the morning.

Not quite sure what to make of this post. Maybe lost in translation here.
Even if bodies are never found, then there must be some rational explanation as to why.
Children don't just 'disappear' off the face of the earth like magic........do they?

 

[vermisstekindersuche]

I don't see the effort put by HCW as indicative of a personal feud or mission against CB. The MM case has been one that has rocked many countries and people. Especially when one considers that a 3 year old child went missing while on vacation I fully understand all this interest in the case. I believe HCW has the strong evidence he says he does that proves MM was killed by CB. From what I gathered they have also had access to places CB used to live so no need to have a warrant per se. And I don't think he is being linked for the moment to any other children's disappearance.

They do have access because people did volunteer to provide BKA access when they were aware by the media that CB could have been a child killer and most likely was the one killing MM.

At any rate thanks for your comment.

 

[vermisstekindersuche]

(...)
Children don't just 'disappear' off the face of the earth like magic........do they?

No.

Take the René Hasse example. If he was taken by the see/water on a moment no-one was looking at him.

There are cases where by "accident" a body can't be recovered.

Let's supose one falls off a ravine to the water/sea.

Let's supose something like that, body can disapear if someone commits suicide (adults or teens - not talking about children here), etc ...

And so on ...

Goes without saying It's NOT valid for MM case.

 

[C.greek]

Without going in detail, if CB is shown on TV/Newspapers as the one that did kill MM many people will think right away that he is responsable for many other missing children cases just because, for example, he was on the same country.

I know for a fact that this will not happen with Peggy case for example but let's pretend right now that Peggy body did apear and there was no Ulvi K. guy, Manuel S, etc ... Now what do you think it would happen ?

In the eyes of people and because CB is a suspect on the case as mentioned by the media and even in the eyes of investigators dealing with the case there would be "tendency" to put the blame on CB as well, people would say that just because CB was in Germany by the time Peggy went missing most likely he would be the one killing her as well and couldn't be excluded. People would stop attempting to solve/crack the case. Again I'm providing this as example only. What would this mean ? That the ones that were really on the area and dealing with Peggy when she went missing (Ulvi, Manuel,) would "get away" with the crime as people would already made their minds that CB did it.

Unfortunatly on Peggy case both were aquitted and the majority of people wouldn't "buy" the "link" to CB but this wouldn't mean that it wouldn't happen in MANY if not in ALL of the other cases that CB might be linked to and personaly for me this is a HUGE PROBLEM.

This explains as well WHY i was wishing that CB was "not the one" who killed MM. I'm selfish. For me even if MM was taken/killed by a pedophile it would have been "better" for her to have been taken by someone local without any "possible link" to any other case, because the popularity of the MM case will influence the "view" of people over the possible killer and will affect the way other crimes/cases will be dealt with in the future.

Is NOT that I do like CB or I do defend him or whatever.

This doesn't make much sense to me. Police are running criminal investigations regardless of who the "common people" believe are the murderers. No police force will stop investigating because a suspect has been 'trialled'in the media and no verdict comes from us.

 

[redplanet]

As i understood the reports there should be "hardware" in form af maybe computers (or cameras) due to the Braunschweig raid and the child trial. Neuwegersleben should have brought up some memorycards (exilim) and drives of some kind.

So we are talking about a time window of 2013-2016.

There is no official and public info about the other raids, including the allotments IMO.

I will try to find the Spiegel screenshot which details the camera. The important thing for me is this model was released already before MM disappeared. Therefore it is possible even that CB possessed this camera on that critical date.

 

[SuperdadV8]

Without going in detail, if CB is shown on TV/Newspapers as the one that did kill MM many people will think right away that he is responsable for many other missing children cases just because, for example, he was on the same country.

I know for a fact that this will not happen with Peggy case for example but let's pretend right now that Peggy body did apear and there was no Ulvi K. guy, Manuel S, etc ... Now what do you think it would happen ?

In the eyes of people and because CB is a suspect on the case as mentioned by the media and even in the eyes of investigators dealing with the case there would be "tendency" to put the blame on CB as well, people would say that just because CB was in Germany by the time Peggy went missing most likely he would be the one killing her as well and couldn't be excluded. People would stop attempting to solve/crack the case. Again I'm providing this as example only. What would this mean ? That the ones that were really on the area and dealing with Peggy when she went missing (Ulvi, Manuel,) would "get away" with the crime as people would already made their minds that CB did it.

Unfortunatly on Peggy case both were aquitted and the majority of people wouldn't "buy" the "link" to CB but this wouldn't mean that it wouldn't happen in MANY if not in ALL of the other cases that CB might be linked to and personaly for me this is a HUGE PROBLEM.

This explains as well WHY i was wishing that CB was "not the one" who killed MM. I'm selfish. For me even if MM was taken/killed by a pedophile it would have been "better" for her to have been taken by someone local without any "possible link" to any other case, because the popularity of the MM case will influence the "view" of people over the possible killer and will affect the way other crimes/cases will be dealt with in the future.

Is NOT that I do like CB or I do defend him or whatever.

Very interesting thoughts IMO. You are right, the PK case seems to be complicated and i think, the connection between aquitted UK and the undertaker isn't that satisfying. But i do not see any connection to CB, except a possible link near his former homestead in some way. So putting him in charge without any reliable facts is unfair!

I even got the opinion, that it ain't fair to put him in charge of unrelated crimes of the past, because he is in focus of MM.

But i assume that he knows about that and i'm disappointed, that he isn't coming forward to rule these things out and keeps quiet. I mean, what is speaking against a coorporation by now, even if he made ONE horrible mistake in his past, probably according to MM and maybe not out of purpose?

Yes, it will start a process of rehabilitation, but showing the will to change the own life has never been
disadvantageous at a german court. There is an advanced rehabilitation system, especially by helping to solve crimes of others?

I do not understand, why he keeps that quiet, although i have so many doubts, that his solicitor is really interested in CB himself....

 

[vermisstekindersuche]

I will try to find the Spiegel screenshot which details the camera. The important thing for me is this model was released already before MM disappeared. Therefore it is possible even that CB possessed this camera on that critical date.

Aparently old CB friends did provide LEA with a camera that they stole/got from CB.

Aparently CB was keeping child on the camera.

My guess is that even if he does have/did have several cameras he would use the same memory card over them with the content that he wanted.

Even if he did had one model at a time he might have swaped the card with the content to another camera.

Not to mention he would keept stealing stuff from turists like cameras ...

 

[tedtink]

Aparently old CB friends did provide LEA with a camera that they stole/got from CB.

Aparently CB was keeping child on the camera.

My guess is that even if he does have/did have several cameras he would use the same memory card over them with the content that he wanted.

Even if he did had one model at a time he might have swaped the card with the content to another camera.

Not to mention he would keept stealing stuff from turists like cameras ...

Do you have a media link regarding the old friends who allegedly gave LE a camera? Where is that info from please?

 

[SuperdadV8]

No.

Take the René Hasse example. If he was taken by the see/water on a moment no-one was looking at him.

There are cases where by "accident" a body can't be recovered.

Let's supose one falls off a ravine to the water/sea.

Let's supose something like that, body can disapear if someone commits suicide (adults or teens - not talking about children here), etc ...

And so on ...

Goes without saying It's NOT valid for MM case.

According to own experiences of loved ones i can even state, that a difficult childhood can cause issues, people have do deal with over life!

Being rejected by the parents, abused (Not just sexual abuse but physical and mental violence is abuse also!), foster parents, orphanages....he wouldn't be the first human that has made some decisions heading out to the wrong way. But every way can include a turn IMO. That needs nothing more than being reflective in the beginning, but it's a long way to go!

But it should be reachable for someone with a backbone....

 

[C.greek]

They do have access because people did volunteer to provide BKA access when they were aware by the media that CB could have been a child killer and most likely was the one killing MM.

At any rate thanks for your comment.

I thought there was a prison van when they lately searched the allotment (klein garten) and that this was obviously a tip off by some fellow prisoner. What do you mean people volunteered? That they gave their okay to search in their properties once used by CB?

ETA : i don't think he owned anything else apart from the cars, right? In that case and especially since he was already in jail, would the BKA really require a search warrant?

 

[vermisstekindersuche]

(...)
But i assume that he knows about that and i'm disappointed, that he isn't coming forward to rule these things out and keeps quiet. (...)

This is what I hate the most about HCW. HCW doesn't have any problem to go to the press and TV to brag about how he is sure CB killed MM and how sure he is about the evidences that he did got but never for once i did saw HCW saying that CB was "ruled out" of something even when they have evidences that rule him out for sure.

Example Claudia Ruf case : - Madeleine McCann suspects Christian Brueckner exonerated of rape and murder of 11-year-old girl | FR24 News English

When CB is ruled out of something it's always the detectives/investigators of those crimes saying they ruled out CB.

Why doesn't HCW go to the press on those ocasions and say that CB after all was ruled ou on this or that matter ?

IF HCW does love the media and to provide interviews so much the least he could do for the ones working on other cases would be to be honest.

If he does have something that he does want to hide about CB/Madeleine that is 100% fine by me. But he knows a way lot more that he could share and that would clear FOR SURE CB from a BUNCH of other crimes without margin for doubt.

Again I'M not saying CB is "innocent" on MM crime.

Take Claudia Ruf for example, IF i were after the one who did the crime and IF the guys investigating the crime didn't went to the media climing the ADN didn't match with CB I would still be thinking that CB could have been the one killing Claudia as HCW even knowing already that he was "cleared" of that one never did address that matter (as far as i'm aware).

Yet he didn't waste time to provide an interview when MM parents did acuse him of not questioning CB ...

 

[vermisstekindersuche]

I thought there was a prison van when they lately searched the allotment (klein garten) and that this was obviously a tip off by some fellow prisoner. What do you mean people volunteered? That they gave their okay to search in their properties once used by CB?

ETA : i don't think he owned anything else apart from the cars, right? In that case and especially since he was already in jail, would the BKA really require a search warrant?

CB did own allotments - pieces of land - that he did sell over time to other people. Police couldn't search the places that are now owned by another people but on the past did belong to CB. CB might have for example burried stuff there.

There was a lady that requested for BKA to search her allotment (that was once owned by CB) in fear that she would be living on a place where a dead body of a child might have been burried... (on that case was not particular MM but another little girl that "aparently" CB "might" have killed as well). This is why it's so "handy" as well that people do view CB as a serial-child-killer. They will not only volunteer but will came forward and BEG for BKA to search their places.
I'm not saying that this is "bad" in some ways as the more they search the better because IF there are ANY evidence hidden somewhere so by all means let's pray BKA can find it what i don't like so much is that the ends justify the means ...

 

[tedtink]

Gut feeling/instinct only.

I'm not saying that HCW is trying to blame CB over the MM crime without solid ground.

I'm saying that HCW looks like (to me) as either having some issues with CB (to hate him in a "personal way") or he does have personal interest on MM case.

We see prosecuters talking on media about many diferent matters/cases and no-one does stuff like HCW to go to the trouble of even "replying" to every single media query and even that stuff that they publish when the MM parents were questioning HCW because he diedn't questioned CB, etc ... he didn't have to reply and even less on the public media. He didn't have to make this go "so far" ... like if the MM case (or MM, or whatever) is somehow "very special" for him so that he goes to all the trouble to find the truth and place CB in jail over that particular case for good.

Take for example the case of the "prostitute" that I did mentioned some posts ago. CB was the prime suspect over that case (if we are to believe on what is stated on the press) and yet no-one went to the tabloids making all the "fuss" that HCW is doing over MM. Even now, why HCW doesn't re-enforce that CB have to be re-investigated over those matters ?

FORTUNATLY (at some rate) they are no longer talking about it and linking cases but it does look like that MM query/investigation is the "big price" to HCW.

He could simply stay quiet and only say on the press that investigation is undergoing or if he wanted to talk he could provide more leads/details on the 3 crimes that CB is also acused of making in portugal and those most likely will get him charged for sure yet they only briefly mentioned those on the media (exposure to minors, rape of another woman, etc) while HCW keeps on saying that he will go as far as he can to crack the MM case and charge CB over it.

Simply looks a little bit "personal". I can "feel" it well. It's like if you are a police investigator working with 100 cases but you have a case or two that are "special" to you for whatever reason. You can "feel" somehow that HCW have a certain "dedication" that goes over the duty of work only.

That is what I "feel". I might be wrong. But if i'm correct oit might cloud/blind the "investigator" as he might end up be motivated and driven by feelings.

The problem I have with this is that you seem to be suggesting that HCW has some kind of personal vendetta against CB.
You've admitted to be driven by feelings. is this not just projection on your part?
I for one will have to reject that idea, otherwise there's a danger we're heading into conspiracy theory territory JMO

 

[tedtink]

CB did own allotments - pieces of land - that he did sell over time to other people. Police couldn't search the places that are now owned by another people but on the past did belong to CB. CB might have for example burried stuff there.

There was a lady that requested for BKA to search her allotment (that was once owned by CB) in fear that she would be living on a place where a dead body of a child might have been burried... (on that case was not particular MM but another little girl that "aparently" CB might have killed as well).

I'm not aware that CB owned those plots?
Were they not rented?

 

[vermisstekindersuche]

The problem I have with this is that you seem to be suggesting that HCW has some kind of personal vendetta against CB.
You've admitted to be driven by feelings. is this not just projection on your part?
I for one will have to reject that idea, otherwise there's a danger we're heading into conspiracy theory territory JMO

If NOT some "personal vendetta" against CB some "personal motivation" to crack MM case.

 

[vermisstekindersuche]

I'm not aware that CB owned those plots?
Were they not rented?

It's irrelevant if it was owned or rented. The fact that he did had access to those plots he could burry stuff there, right ?

But then again, i'm contradicting a little bit myself, i some ways it's positive as more stuff will be searched and more stuff will be ruled out.

The problem is that many stuff has already been ruled out and HCW is not talking about it. So this is kind of a "personal problem" that I have with HCW and the way he deals with this issue but I will keep it to myself now.

 

[SuperdadV8]

This is what I hate the most about HCW. HCW doesn't have any problem to go to the press and TV to brag about how he is sure CB killed MM and how sure he is about the evidences that he did got but never for once i did saw HCW saying that CB was "ruled out" of something even when they have evidences that rule him out for sure.

Example Claudia Ruf case : - Madeleine McCann suspects Christian Brueckner exonerated of rape and murder of 11-year-old girl | FR24 News English

When CB is ruled out of something it's always the detectives/investigators of those crimes saying they ruled out CB.

Why doesn't HCW go to the press on those ocasions and say that CB after all was ruled ou on this or that matter ?

IF HCW does love the media and to provide interviews so much the least he could do for the ones working on other cases would be to be honest.

If he does have something that he does want to hide about CB/Madeleine that is 100% fine by me. But he knows a way lot more that he could share and that would clear FOR SURE CB from a BUNCH of other crimes without margin for doubt.

Again I'M not saying CB is "innocent" on MM crime.

Take Claudia Ruf for example, IF i were after the one who did the crime and IF the guys investigating the crime didn't went to the media climing the ADN didn't match with CB I would still be thinking that CB could have been the one killing Claudia as HCW even knowing already that he was "cleared" of that one never did address that matter (as far as i'm aware).

Yet he didn't waste time to provide an interview when MM parents did acuse him of not questioning CB ...

CB's solicitor quoted that a pedophile doesn't have to be a murderer. That is correct and plausible. Terrible accidents can happen, of course.

Why do you think CB isn't coming forward whilst being related to horrible crimes, he even isn't related to? You think he is that trustful for his lawyer?