Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect #27

[SuperdadV8]

Interestingly, I found the below about the role of the defence lawyer in Germany

"Q13. What is the role of my lawyer? Will s/he investigate the case?
Your lawyer will provide you with legal advice and represent you in court, based on the evidence gathered
by the prosecution and given by any witnesses that are called. S/he can also request that the prosecution
conducts further investigations and/or that the court calls witnesses or gathers specific evidence, but this will
be at the discretion of the court"

This appears to mean that all these claims of FF and the potential witnesses he could get could be dismissed if the case reaches the court?

ETA link https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...AQFnoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2Xq1pi5IMK7TVxwgZtH9t7

No, solicitors in germany are permitted to do everything, to keep the rights of the suspect. It's a permission, that has a wide range!

Legal proceedings are very comfortable to suspects due to the fact, that the authority has to prove guilt beyond no reasonable doubt!

Everything is fine for CB, unless the evidence will prove him to be the one who is responsible.

 

[C.greek]

^ Quite. HCW knew it was only a matter of days, if not actual hours, before the suspect would be identified. He knew exactly what he was doing and everything that has transpired subsequently backs that up. Claims that he didn't name the suspect is just playing with semantics. He needed CB's name out there because, in his very own words, his investigation needed and continues to this day to need input from the public in order for him to confidently take this case before a judge.

Will it actually ever happen? I have my doubts.

The police and the BKA have every right to all but name the suspect if it is for the public good. They cannot disclose nor confirm the full name of a suspect but they did absolutely everything legally. The media then - first in portugal by the way in this case- have every right to disclose the full name if they can put two and two together. If CB feels offended he can sue the press and the media. The Germans are known for their very careful approach. Their media still call him Christian B. I am thus not sure what the problem is

 

[Nikolai_ff]

In a slightly different matter, I really do hope CB is convicted and it’s proven beyond reasonable doubt he is guilty. So many schizos who spent years and 10’s of thousands of posts (on other forums), spittle flying, accusing the poor parents, would be utterly humiliated.

 

[RichardKimble]

Well, it's absolutely justified to post your opinion in here. No problem.

But again, i will never ever follow any opinion, that points any possible responsibility for Maddies disappearance to the parents.

You have to know, new members with this opinion come and go in here! They were, they are, and they ever will be!

So, no big deal!

Bolded bit, have I expressed the opinion the parents were involved, I've pointed out the suspects up to and including CB.

 

[Nikolai_ff]

The police and the BKA have every right to all but name the suspect if it is for the public good. They cannot disclose nor confirm the full name of a suspect but they did absolutely everything legally. The media then - first in portugal by the way in this case- have every right to disclose the full name if they can put two and two together. If CB feels offended he can sue the press and the media. The Germans are known for their very careful approach. Their media still call him Christian B. I am thus not sure what the problem is

 

[SuperdadV8]

In a slightly different matter, I really do hope CB is convicted and it’s proven beyond reasonable doubt he is guilty. So many schizos who spent years and 10’s of thousands of posts (on other forums), spittle flying, accusing the poor parents, would be utterly humiliated.

I can't say that i hope CB to be convicted for something, he isn't responsible of so far. I studied german laws and worked for the prosecutors office as well! If he isn't responsible, we have to accept that!

But.....

He seems to know what has happened and doesn't talk! According to german law, thats aid to the crime and can be punished as well!

So.....he knows! Either he did it himself, or he knows who is responsible. He keeps quiet, as far as we know!

So....to some people in here he seems to be the (legal) perfect pedestrian...?!

Come on people, what's wrong with you? Parents are missing their child since 2007! You have no idea what torture you are going through, not to know what happened to your child!

Freckin' sadists! Shame on you!!!

 

[Lilly b]

They were suspects, just as Murat was, just as the three locals were in 2014 just as CB is, the issue being ? the link that binds them all, lack of evidence.

But this thread is about a German prisoner, identified as suspect

 

[Lilly b]

There isn't one, that's the point. <modsnip>
HCW clearly did what he needed to do in order to put skin on the bones of his and the BKA's belief that CB is responsible for the murder of MM.

It became public, as HCW needed to find the missing pieces of the jigsaw so to speak, so an appeal was made, the name was then released by whomever, and it's in all the media etc etc
HCW seems to of got what he needed, and we must believe it within ourselves,
otherwise we wouldn't be talking about it on here, would we?

 

[C.greek]

No, solicitors in germany are permitted to do everything, to keep the rights of the suspect. It's a permission, that has a wide range!

Legal proceedings are very comfortable to suspects due to the fact, that the authority has to prove guilt beyond no reasonable doubt!

Everything is fine for CB, unless the evidence will prove him to be the one who is responsible.

If this so-called investigation evidence by the defence lawyer cannot be brought to court or better if it is not certain that the court will accept it what's the point?
The above quote is from EU's advice on one's rights about Germany.

 

[RichardKimble]

But this thread is about a German prisoner, identified as suspect

Indeed it is, I'm drawing comparisons, the PJ thought they had the perpetrators, SY were of the same mind in 2014, why should this new suspect be any more guilty than those previously when Wolters admits to only circumstantial and no forensics or even photos.

 

[SuperdadV8]

If this so-called investigation evidence by the defence lawyer cannot be brought to court or better if it is not certain that the court will accept it what's the point?
The above quote is from EU's advice on one's rights about Germany.

As hard as it may sound, if not brought to court, there won't be a case! Sad but true!

 

[C.greek]

Another thing that I found interesting is that the Prosecution office in Germany does not only need to find proof for a suspect's guilt but that they also need to investigate in favour of the accused person!!

"In the German criminal justice system, the public prosecutor's office is not a party. Thus, the prosecution is obliged not only to unilaterally collect evidence of the suspect's guilt, but it must also investigate in favour of the accused person, section 160 (1), (2) Code of Criminal Procedure (StPO). "

So this appears to explain why the defence lawyer need not investigate?
Does this happen in other countries as well?!

 

[C.greek]

As hard as it may sound, if not brought to court, there won't be a case! Sad but true!

No no i mean that the court does not need to accept the evidence or witnesses suggested by the defence lawyer.

 

[C.greek]

Indeed it is, I'm drawing comparisons, the PJ thought they had the perpetrators, SY were of the same mind in 2014, why should this new suspect be any more guilty than those previously when Wolters admits to only circumstantial and no forensics or even photos.

He admitted to no forensics (i.e. a body) and did not deny photos

Also because this appears to have been an ongoing investigation since at least 2017?sorry wanted to add not only that it has been going on behind the scenes (ie the media) for 3 years but that all three police forces have been exchanging information, as it becomes apparent with the newly reported fingerprint in HB's case!

 

[SuperdadV8]

No no i mean that the court does not need to accept the evidence or witnesses suggested by the defence lawyer.

A german court has to accept possible evidence brought by the defence, if it may be crucial to the case.

German trials have nothing to to with the american or british justice system!

Hard to explain.....! No publicity, no jury, just one or three jugdes deciding!

But most if the time, it works! Like in the DM case!

 

[C.greek]

A german court has to accept possible evidence brought by the defence, if it may be crucial to the case.

German trials have nothing to to with the american or british justice system!

Hard to explain.....! No publicity, no jury, just one or three jugdes deciding!

But most if the time, it works! Like in the DM case!

The quotes above are specifically for the German system. This "S/he(i.e. the defence lawyer) can also request that the prosecution conducts further investigations and/or that the court calls witnesses or gathers specific evidence, but this will
be at the discretion of the court"

Could be understood to mean that the court does not *need* to accept the evidence presented by the defence.

 

[SuperdadV8]

The quotes above are specifically for the German system. This "S/he(i.e. the defence lawyer) can also request that the prosecution conducts further investigations and/or that the court calls witnesses or gathers specific evidence, but this will
be at the discretion of the court"

Could be understood to mean that the court does not *need* to accept the evidence presented by the defence.

The court has to check everything the defence brings into the trial and has to evaluate it. Not more, not less!

 

[C.greek]

The court has to check everything the defence brings into the trial and has to evaluate it. Not more, not less!

Before or during the actual trial though? During the second stage of the legal proceedings or the final one? Can the defence bring 'surprise' evidence or do they have to present it before the actual trial? Also the other quote about the German prosecution having to also collect evidence in favour of the suspect is the first time I heard of. So I guess if this is an obligation of the prosecution, they must be holding something crucial to be really 100% sure of CB's guilt...

 

[Lilly b]

Indeed it is, I'm drawing comparisons, the PJ thought they had the perpetrators, SY were of the same mind in 2014, why should this new suspect be any more guilty than those previously when Wolters admits to only circumstantial and no forensics or even photos.

Because his name was put forward by at least 3 people, one of whom CB admitted what he had done
Those from 2014 were petty thieves, and used there phones that night, but no one brought their names up

 

[RichardKimble]

He admitted to no forensics (i.e. a body) and did not deny photos

Also because this appears to have been an ongoing investigation since at least 2017?sorry wanted to add not only that it has been going on behind the scenes (ie the media) for 3 years but that all three police forces have been exchanging information, as it becomes apparent with the newly reported fingerprint in HB's case!

As recently has October, no photo: :However, the prosecutors now admit they have no proof that Madeleine is dead – despite authorities in Braunschweig telling the McCanns last year they had “evidence” she is no longer alive.Wolters said they have no idea how she died and no DNA or photo evidence linking the German sex offender to the alleged murder.

Maddie McCann lawyers '100% convinced' German sex offender murdered her