Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect #31

[Woodburnbay]

I'm sure the culprits have been relaxed for the past 15 years, confident that they are untouchable.

And would he receive a fair trial, given he has been flaunted in the media for the best part of 2 Years.
A good defence lawyer would run rings around the prosecutor and then the media would say:

"We know who the culprit is and he got off"

Is that the way to conduct a search for true justice?

But then the spotlight would be fixed and not shine an uncomfortably bright light in other back gardens. IMO.

 

[enquirer6]

And would he receive a fair trial, given he has been flaunted in the media for the best part of 2 Years.
A good defence lawyer would run rings around the prosecutor and then the media would say:

"We know who the culprit is and he got off"

Is that the way to conduct a search for true justice?

But then the spotlight would be fixed and not shine an uncomfortably bright light in other back gardens. IMO.

Certainly, in Germany, Brueckner would most certainly receive a fair trial.

The whole 'adverse publicity prejudicing a trial' argument rests on England where, in magistrates courts, lay-juries hear the evidence and decide outcomes. The rules limiting what can be reported about events from a point someone is charged and in the time running up to and including trial is to protect lay-juries from their judgements being prejudiced.

Certainly, in England, Crown Court judges, or more senior, are deemed sufficiently rigorous and impartial not to allow publicity surrounding a case to cloud their judgements, and reporting restrictions do not apply.

I would be amazed if the same is not, also, true in Germany where trials of first-instance are both heard and determined by judges sitting alone.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I agree, in my mind it’s certain he would get a fair trial.

My concern is that HCW needs to convince a judge that he has a strong enough case for a trial to be justified. This is based on info I’ve read on this forum.

This is what I mean in my prior posts where I mention that something appears to have gone wrong with HCW’s case. If he has enough evidence and he can charge CB, why hasn’t he?

 

[Davieson]

Does Wolters only get one shot at a charge ?
By that I mean if a judge rejects his case, is he able to return to the court if he gets further evidence and makes a further application ?

 

[enquirer6]

Does Wolters only get one shot at a charge ?
By that I mean if a judge rejects his case, is he able to return to the court if he gets further evidence and makes a further application ?

That's a very good question.

I have no idea whether, in Germany, there is a 'double jeopardy' law that prohibits a person being tried twice for the same offence.

There used to be in England, but the law was abolished.

This would seem to be the answer. As far as I can make out, Herr Wolters gets just one shot at securing the conviction of Brueckner:

Article 50 - Right not to be tried or punished twice in criminal proceedings for the same criminal offence

fra.europa.eu

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I could be completely wrong but I don’t think that HCW is limited to one attempt, I think it’s an ongoing process of reviews.

I do think that the double jeopardy case or similar is a law in Germany so if CB was acquitted for the murder of MM he couldn’t face trial for that crime again.

I’m sure that @SuperdadV8 could give accurate answers to both questions.

 

[RichardKimble]

I agree, in my mind it’s certain he would get a fair trial.

My concern is that HCW needs to convince a judge that he has a strong enough case for a trial to be justified. This is based on info I’ve read on this forum.

This is what I mean in my prior posts where I mention that something appears to have gone wrong with HCW’s case. If he has enough evidence and he can charge CB, why hasn’t he?

For some reason Wolters hasn't declared that he has enough to charge CB over the rape case which we're led to believe is first up.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

For some reason Wolters hasn't declared that he has enough to charge CB over the rape case which we're led to believe is first up.

That’s true.

Either there is some kind of a negotiation going on behind the scenes or things are going cold on several fronts for HCW.

In the HB rape case, it was leaked that they had a finger print match to CB. Could’ve been a bluff to get CB talking. We won’t know until he’s charged if that ever happens.

 

[SuperdadV8]

I could be completely wrong but I don’t think that HCW is limited to one attempt, I think it’s an ongoing process of reviews.

I do think that the double jeopardy case or similar is a law in Germany so if CB was acquitted for the murder of MM he couldn’t face trial for that crime again.

I’m sure that @SuperdadV8 could give accurate answers to both questions.

There is a strong "double jeopardy" principle here in germany, according to the old principle called "ne bis in idem".

The problem is, the german legislative produced a new legal principle or adjustment of the criminal codex, that allows to break the ne bis in idem priciple, if somebody has been aquitted in the past, but modern investigative methods like DNA sampling creates "new" evidence. Evidence, that couldn't be achieved at the time of the aquittal (very short verson!!!)

It's obvious, that the plans of the german legislative don't make all the other possibly involved institutions (solicitors or constitutional lawyers) making wishes for a dancing competition, so courts in charge are checking this "new law" or "adjustment" in relation to principles of the german constitution and european law principles as well. That takes time!

The other question is, if this "adjustment" can be seen as a renunciation from double jeopardy in general and the recent investigations against CB. Why?

There is a recent case in germany directly related to the topic. Someone has been aquitted of an alledged murder of a girl in the early 80's.

Now the prosecutors had the chance to retest some evidence for possible DNA traces due to a new processing of the evidence, that didn't exist in the 80's. And the sample matches the DNA of the aquitted person and the discussion about the "adjustment" of existing legal principles began. But all these circumstances don't fit the MM case at all, IMO.

So yes, HCW has still just one lucky punch and the following steps should be chosen very carefully!

 

[JB1510]

There was a 2 part documentary on HLN last night did anyone see it ? If not maybe keep an eye out for it. No information as yet in regards to its contents but from what I’ve read it seems it is following the current investigations so something may crop up of interest.

How It Really Happened | CNN Creative Marketing

www.cnncreativemarketing.com

 

[Dave55]

I could be completely wrong but I don’t think that HCW is limited to one attempt, I think it’s an ongoing process of reviews.

I do think that the double jeopardy case or similar is a law in Germany so if CB was acquitted for the murder of MM he couldn’t face trial for that crime again.

I’m sure that @SuperdadV8 could give accurate answers to both questions.

Wolters has already said he will only get one chance and that's why he wants to make sure

 

[enquirer6]

That’s true.

Either there is some kind of a negotiation going on behind the scenes or things are going cold on several fronts for HCW.

In the HB rape case, it was leaked that they had a finger print match to CB. Could’ve been a bluff to get CB talking. We won’t know until he’s charged if that ever happens.

Herr Wolters has the precedent of Brueckner's attempt to appeal his conviction, on DNA proof, of the crime he is now in jail for to tell him of the likelihood of Brueckner confessing to anything.

 

[Trivento]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

In this attached piece ( at about 4.50 mark) recorded end May '22 HCW says might be some years before CB charged re.MM .
He also specifically says because of evidence BKA have that MM died in Portugal.
He later says if they had not enough evidence he wouldn't talk about such things in the way he has.
I guess people will continue to interpret such statements in their own way , as has been the case so far , until some more clarity emerges...

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I'm still waiting patiently for the Ms & T7 to show us all the colour photos and videos (including on their phones) of MM during that holiday. I'm sure there must have been hundreds?!

 

[RichardKimble]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

In this attached piece ( at about 4.50 mark) recorded end May '22 HCW says might be some years before CB charged re.MM .
He also specifically says because of evidence BKA have that MM died in Portugal.
He later says if they had not enough evidence he wouldn't talk about such things in the way he has.
I guess people will continue to interpret such statements in their own way , as has been the case so far , until some more clarity emerges...

IMO there's never been much doubt she died in Luz, the circumstances have always been the bone of contention.

 

[Davieson]

I'm still waiting patiently for the Ms & T7 to show us all the colour photos and videos (including on their phones) of MM during that holiday. I'm sure there must have been hundreds?!

Do you think so ?
As a parent, just how many pictures of a child going to and from a creche would you want to take ?

 

[Davieson]

I'm surprised Wolters is now talking of years.
They either have strong evidence or they don't. It sound McCauberish to expect new evidence to just materialise some time in the future.
Also interesting that they are prepared to invest time & money for the foreseeable future on a a case that didn't take place in Germany

 

[RichardKimble]

I'm surprised Wolters is now talking of years.
They either have strong evidence or they don't. It sound McCauberish to expect new evidence to just materialise some time in the future.
Also interesting that they are prepared to invest time & money for the foreseeable future on a a case that didn't take place in Germany

Talk of years is strange given he only talked of a couple of months back in July 2020, either there just isn't the evidence and lack of progress to even question CB suggests so , or there is something bigger at play here and the McCann case is just a means to an end. Grange or rather the home office have paid for Grange since its inception , to date circa £12 million has been spent, to not bring any one to court and now the Germans on an unlimited budget ?, what are we missing here ?

 

[Davieson]

Talk of years is strange given he only talked of a couple of months back in July 2020, either there just isn't the evidence and lack of progress to even question CB suggests so , or there is something bigger at play here and the McCann case is just a means to an end. Grange or rather the home office have paid for Grange since its inception , to date circa £12 million has been spent, to not bring any one to court and now the Germans on an unlimited budget ?, what are we missing here ?

The Germans have been working on trying to break some international paedophile network, so perhaps its tied up with that, though I can't see Brueckner playing a key role in that.

Whatever it might be, Grange has all but given, having virtually no staff left.

 

[Woodburnbay]

I'm surprised Wolters is now talking of years.
They either have strong evidence or they don't. It sound McCauberish to expect new evidence to just materialise some time in the future.
Also interesting that they are prepared to invest time & money for the foreseeable future on a a case that didn't take place in Germany

Perhaps the Germans owe someone in MI5 a favour who were involved in the early days. Can't think why, was national security at risk??