Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect #32

[RichardKimble]

Maybe the perp was a seasoned burglar and never burglared anywhere where he didn't have two points of egress. Wait till there are no adults ... check the slider... open... go around, check for a window.... open ... open it.... go around and enter through the slider.... back up open window if all else fails. Fast exit...

Jmo

The problem with that imo is that any perp would have to walk around the building either on the pavement or the path in front of the apartments, far better for this to happen is, in the patio doors out the front door, no faffing around with windows and shutters.

 

[WestLondoner]

The problem with that imo is that any perp would have to walk around the building either on the pavement or the path in front of the apartments, far better for this to happen is, in the patio doors out the front door, no faffing around with windows and shutters.

Indeed. This discussion illustrates what's so unexpectedly weird about this: that it is not at all obvious what happened in the apartment. The obvious thing would be in through the unsecured patio door, close it behind you; open the front door; pick up child; exit carrying child; close door behind you. The latter (while carrying a child) is doable, I've done it many times when moving my own little 'uns between cars and houses at that age.

Do all that and from the outside there's going to be no sign of anything amiss; and indeed none from the inside either unless someone actually walks into the bedroom. You'll get an hour's start, and at no point are you doing anything that would look suspicious, such as climbing out of a window carrying a child.

Instead we have this odd business of a window being needlessly opened; or it never was and KM just said it was; or someone else, not the perp, opened it after GM's last visit.

Eh?

 

[mrjitty]

One issue with the window being open is this would have been obvious from outside

So as usual you get into all the questions of how checks were done.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

are we no longer talking about the girl claiming she is MM? I have to say she really looks like both of the parents and
I am still curious to see the DNA results. mOO

There is a separate thread for that discussion:

Madeleine Mccann - Julia Wendell The Polish woman claiming to be MM

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/girl-claiming-madeleine-deletes-instagram-29358475

www.websleuths.com

 

[RichardKimble]

One issue with the window being open is this would have been obvious from outside

So as usual you get into all the questions of how checks were done.

If ever it gets to court how intriguing it'll be how CB and Madeleine ended up together.

 

[RichardKimble]

One reason might be trial support. Eg the uk based witnesses

One would have thought that having CB's name passed to them in 2017 and the naming as a suspect in 2020 that every body and any body who was in Portugal from a British perspective would have been interviewed by now.

 

[misty48]

One would have thought that having CB's name passed to them in 2017 and the naming as a suspect in 2020 that every body and any body who was in Portugal from a British perspective would have been interviewed by now.

Germany only have the authority to charge the suspect with murder.
Madeleine is a UK citizen and someone could be tried in UK if they were involved in her abduction, conspiracy to murder or sexually abusing her as there is no statute on limitations on those crimes in UK. It is my opinion that there were three separate crimes in Madeleine's case, involving more than one perp, hence the continuance of Operation Grange.

 

[Davieson]

Germany only have the authority to charge the suspect with murder.
Madeleine is a UK citizen and someone could be tried in UK if they were involved in her abduction, conspiracy to murder or sexually abusing her as there is no statute on limitations on those crimes in UK. It is my opinion that there were three separate crimes in Madeleine's case, involving more than one perp, hence the continuance of Operation Grange.

Its interesting that you should say that given that no crime has been established. What do you think these 3 crimes are ?

 

[misty48]

Its interesting that you should say that given that no crime has been established. What do you think these 3 crimes are ?

The crimes are listed in my previous post...

 

[Davieson]

The crimes are listed in my previous post...

You mean mentioned, rather than listed. OK, thanks.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

Indeed. This discussion illustrates what's so unexpectedly weird about this: that it is not at all obvious what happened in the apartment. The obvious thing would be in through the unsecured patio door, close it behind you; open the front door; pick up child; exit carrying child; close door behind you. The latter (while carrying a child) is doable, I've done it many times when moving my own little 'uns between cars and houses at that age.

Do all that and from the outside there's going to be no sign of anything amiss; and indeed none from the inside either unless someone actually walks into the bedroom. You'll get an hour's start, and at no point are you doing anything that would look suspicious, such as climbing out of a window carrying a child.

Instead we have this odd business of a window being needlessly opened; or it never was and KM just said it was; or someone else, not the perp, opened it after GM's last visit.

Eh?

After entering through patio door, window open: hear/see noise/light approaching or just to fake.

 

[RichardKimble]

Germany only have the authority to charge the suspect with murder.
Madeleine is a UK citizen and someone could be tried in UK if they were involved in her abduction, conspiracy to murder or sexually abusing her as there is no statute on limitations on those crimes in UK. It is my opinion that there were three separate crimes in Madeleine's case, involving more than one perp, hence the continuance of Operation Grange..

Does the offences against the person act cover that, it covers any one from England or Ireland should they be the perpetrator of murder or manslaughter. Should of course be updated to reflect his majesty not her.

Offences against the Person Act 1861

An Act to consolidate and amend the Statute Law of England and Ireland relating to Offences against the Person.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Murder or manslaughter abroad.​

Where any murder or manslaughter shall be committed on land out of the United Kingdom, whether within the Queen’s dominions or without, and whether the person killed were a subject of Her Majesty or not, every offence committed by any subject of Her Majesty in respect of any such case, whether the same shall amount to the offence of murder or of manslaughter, . . . F1, may be dealt with, inquired of, tried, determined, and punished . . . F1 in England or Ireland . . . F1: Provided, that nothing herein contained shall prevent any person from being tried in any place out of England or Ireland for any murder or manslaughter committed out of England or Ireland, in the same manner as such person might have been tried before the passing of this Act.

 

[RichardKimble]

Germany only have the authority to charge the suspect with murder.
Madeleine is a UK citizen and someone could be tried in UK if they were involved in her abduction, conspiracy to murder or sexually abusing her as there is no statute on limitations on those crimes in UK. It is my opinion that there were three separate crimes in Madeleine's case, involving more than one perp, hence the continuance of Operation Grange.

So the CPS have this to say about sexual abuse abroad.

Sexual Offences Act 2003​

Section 7 was repealed and replaced by section 72 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 on 1 May 2004. If a person commits an act abroad, which is an offence in that country or territory, that person can be prosecuted in the UK for the offence if it is a sexual offence listed in Schedule 2 of Sexual Offences Act 2003. Proceedings relating to offences committed abroad can only be brought against a person who was on 1 September 1997, or has since become, a British Citizen or person who is resident in the UK.

An amended section 72 was substituted by the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 which came into effect on 14 July 2008. This amendment made significant changes to the residency and nationality conditions. In this section a person meets the residence or nationality condition at the relevant time if the person is a United Kingdom national or a United Kingdom resident at the time when the proceedings are brought.

It is important to ensure that any prosecution is brought under the provision in force at the time the alleged conduct occurred as the terms of the substantive provisions and details of the offences they cover are not identical. For offences from 1 May 2004 to 13 July 2008 see section 72 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 (as enacted) and for offences from 14 July 2008 onwards see the amended section 72 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003.

 

[Davieson]

Well that would seem to rule out an abuse case in UK as CB is not a UK citizen.

 

[RichardKimble]

Well that would seem to rule out an abuse case in UK as CB is not a UK citizen.

I think misty48 is inferring more than one perp in her opinion, but none the less it rules out should he/she be of foreign residency.

 

[enquirer6]

I confess, the thought had never occurred to me that Brueckner might have had an accomplice. But if that's right, that would certainly explain why Scotland Yard have been given extra funding even though the Germans have got Brueckner under lock and key. Scotland Yard are going after the accomplice.

 

[misty48]

I think misty48 is inferring more than one perp in her opinion, but none the less it rules out should he/she be of foreign residency.

CB was extradited from Italy to Germany to face trial over a rape of a US citizen in Portugal. I see no reason why a potential non-UK perp living in Portugal or elsewhere can't be extradited to UK to face trial when the victim is a UK citizen, as long as the crime is also a legally recognised offence in the perp's country of residence.

 

[Davieson]

Brueckner is being prosecuted in Germany because he is a German citizen.
To extradite a foreign citizen to Britain would not be the same thing

To give an example, Gary Glitter was tried in UK for offences in Asia because he was a UK citizen.

 

[misty48]

Brueckner is being prosecuted in Germany because he is a German citizen.
To extradite a foreign citizen to Britain would not be the same thing

To give an example, Gary Glitter was tried in UK for offences in Asia because he was a UK citizen.

CB is being prosecuted in Germany not just because he's a German citizen (resident in Italy at time of arrest)but because he could no longer be tried in Portugal where he committed the various offences whereas Germany could still prosecute. Germany are also adverse to extraditing their own citizens.
Is it your belief that potential perps of crimes against Madeleine which can no longer be prosecuted in Portugal are able to escape justice?

 

[Davieson]

CB is being prosecuted in Germany not just because he's a German citizen (resident in Italy at time of arrest)but because he could no longer be tried in Portugal where he committed the various offences whereas Germany could still prosecute. Germany are also adverse to extraditing their own citizens.
Is it your belief that potential perps of crimes against Madeleine which can no longer be prosecuted in Portugal are able to escape justice?

I've no idea. I just accept the law.

Incidentaly, I think CB was extradited from Italy to face drug charges in Germany. The rape trial came aboutwhile he was in prison, hence the failed appeal against the sentence