Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect #32

[Davieson]

Agreed. It’s possible that Police do have his phone records.

Maddie McCann suspect's phone records 'are new evidence'

Key new evidence uncovered by police in the search for Madeleine McCann has been revealed as phone records showing a suspect's movements in Portugal in 2007.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I think that probably refers only to records collected for the PDL area around 5th May 2007.

 

[mrjitty]

The problem with much of this stuff is it’s based on tabloid reporting or single source like MWT.

I sceptical how accurate stuff is beyond what was in the court cases and what was released in the public appeal.

 

[Anxala]

…it was years ago, we’ve been try to understand HCW’s silver bullet for a long time and now I fear it’s more like a led pellet!

On material evidence, has HCW said they have physical evidence? For a long time he was saying “concrete” (in the German sense, there is a difference between material and concrete) and “circumstantial” did this ever change? As with the fibres, he always seems to close this speculation down quickly.

If he has said material or physical, would Das Buch qualify? Perhaps that’s a question for @mrjitty or @SuperdadV8. GA did say that this was what the BKA investigation was based on - perhaps he was right.

I meant it felt like a thousand years ago, along with what feels like the thousands of threads where we've collectively being going round and round the houses, waiting for HCW to come good on his 'guilty' claim! It's just so wearying and disconcerting that we seem to be back at square one where we're yet again querying the nature and nuts and bolts of HCW's 'he absolutely did it' claims against CB.

I quess Das Buch could quality as material evidence if we're to accept the broad legal definition of material evidence which includes written matter. But since we're not in the Das Buch loop, we have absolutely no hope of understanding what it is in Das Buch that HCW puts such store in.

But whatever it is, it's clearly falling way short of what's required to charge CB.

What has HCW's public appeal actually achieved in MM terms?

 

[RichardKimble]

I meant it felt like a thousand years ago, along with what feels like the thousands of threads where we've collectively being going round and round the houses, waiting for HCW to come good on his 'guilty' claim! It's just so wearying and disconcerting that we seem to be back at square one where we're yet again querying the nature and nuts and bolts of HCW's 'he absolutely did it' claims against CB.

I quess Das Buch could quality as material evidence if we're to accept the broad legal definition of material evidence which includes written matter. But since we're not in the Das Buch loop, we have absolutely no hope of understanding what it is in Das Buch that HCW puts such store in.

But whatever it is, it's clearly falling way short of what's required to charge CB.

What has HCW's public appeal actually achieved in MM terms?

Bolded bit, it allowed a media feeding frenzy in the UK at least,
Apart from that ?

 

[RichardKimble]

Was CB a known and registered sex offender in 2013 when interviewed if so why did the alleged 30 minute phone call not raise suspicions to grange when the same phone records targeted the three locals in Luz ? resulting in interviewing them in 2014 and the digs.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Surely not, people mis-remember all the time. For example, just look at Gerry's statements about which door he entered by that night. And that was just a day or 2 later.
2013 was 6 years after the event. Who remembers precisely what they were doing after that length of time ?

Yes, and GM’s statement is suspicious too. I guess in my comment was based on CB giving a clearly false statement like he was in Germany or something.

But what lie do you suppose cast's suspicion, if he said he wasn't there and they (BKA) can't contradict it,was it a lie.

I think the BKA can contradict it, that’s why the statement is sucpicious.

In 2017 Rowley talked of cast your net wide enough and and a whole range of offences and sex offenders live nearby, so in 2013 was it likely that Grange identified CB as one and wanted to eliminate him, once again nothing drew suspicion upon him then.

Was CB a known and registered sex offender in 2013 when interviewed if so why did the alleged 30 minute phone call not raise suspicions to grange when the same phone records targeted the three locals in Luz ? resulting in interviewing them in 2014 and the digs.

The only thing that would highlight CB to OG would have been the phone call. It was likely from an unregistered pay-as-you-go phone. It was one phone call within 72k with seemingly no pattern. The calls between the three locals were at the right time and traceable. I’m not saying it’s great police work but on its own, was there anything suspicious about CB’s call if you don’t know it’s him making it?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I meant it felt like a thousand years ago, along with what feels like the thousands of threads where we've collectively being going round and round the houses, waiting for HCW to come good on his 'guilty' claim! It's just so wearying and disconcerting that we seem to be back at square one where we're yet again querying the nature and nuts and bolts of HCW's 'he absolutely did it' claims against CB.

I quess Das Buch could quality as material evidence if we're to accept the broad legal definition of material evidence which includes written matter. But since we're not in the Das Buch loop, we have absolutely no hope of understanding what it is in Das Buch that HCW puts such store in.

But whatever it is, it's clearly falling way short of what's required to charge CB.

What has HCW's public appeal actually achieved in MM terms?

From what I can see, not much new info. Worse still, if it wasn’t CB, the whole thing has been very disruptive for the wider case.

 

[tedtink]

Surely not, people mis-remember all the time. For example, just look at Gerry's statements about which door he entered by that night. And that was just a day or 2 later.
2013 was 6 years after the event. Who remembers precisely what they were doing after that length of time ?

Just a guess but considering a child went missing creating a huge worldwide media storm, in that tiny village, an event never witnessed before,I'd imagine anyone living, holidaying in PDL or living close to PDL on that night would have remembered where they were and what they were doing.

Cb seemed to remember precisely where he was after 15 years - In 2022 he said he was with his GF perhaps he told LE that info in 2013 too.
Whadda you think?

But I guess there's always a minority who just like to stick their head in the sand and let things pass them by or simply dismiss information from their conscious thought.

 

[tedtink]

If we continue on this merry-go-round of rehashing old info we might scrape our way to #33 before April fools day.

Prost!

 

[Deleted member 268165]

I think that probably refers only to records collected for the PDL area around 5th May 2007.

To my knowledge, records of phone calls, and text messages, activating PdL masts, were collected only for 2, 3 and 4, May 2007, in 5 files. And they were more than 74,000 records. See
THE MADELEINE MCCANN'S ABDUCTION: REQUEST TO PORTUGUESE PG
See also The murder of Madeleine McCann: why the German prosecutor and BKA are sure the alleged call to Christian B. on May 3 did not come from Praia da Luz

 

[Davieson]

Just a guess but considering a child went missing creating a huge worldwide media storm, in that tiny village, an event never witnessed before,I'd imagine anyone living, holidaying in PDL or living close to PDL on that night would have remembered where they were and what they were doing.

Cb seemed to remember precisely where he was after 15 years - In 2022 he said he was with his GF perhaps he told LE that info in 2013 too.
Whadda you think?

But I guess there's always a minority who just like to stick their head in the sand and let things pass them by or simply dismiss information from their conscious thought.

From what I've read, he was wrong about the girlfriend thing, so perhaps his memory is not as good as you assume.

It is said that everyone can remember where they were when president Kennedy was shot. Well I certainly don't and I was probably about 20 at the time, though I'm not even sure about that.

 

[mrjitty]

I quess Das Buch could quality as material evidence if we're to accept the broad legal definition of material evidence which includes written matter. But since we're not in the Das Buch loop, we have absolutely no hope of understanding what it is in Das Buch that HCW puts such store in.

RSBM

What strikes me, having mostly reverted back to following trials is that the what is stated in the media, even reliable media, is often quite different, or very generic compared to what comes out at trial. Especially I am sceptical of leaks, tabloid reporting and 'investigative' documentaries as many of these are highly inaccurate, even post trial!

So just taking 'das buch' does this even exist in any useful format as seems to be claimed by insiders? Like a detailed confession of crimes that would led to other corroborating evidence?

If he simply said to witnesses, and/or wrote done "yeah i did it' that is far short of evidence to convict.

Personally i suspect their 'concrete' evidence is fragments of the circumstantial case i.e. CB themselves gave them a theory of the case, and some parts they can confirm - for example the Jag rego change. Working at Ocean club. Hard evidence of breaking and entering to commit assaults. Videotaping of assaults.

So we know they have bits and pieces

But I am kind of sceptical that we can determine from HCWs statements that they must necessarily have a lot more than this. Maybe one day we will find out!

 

[RichardKimble]

RSBM



Personally i suspect their 'concrete' evidence is fragments of the circumstantial case i.e. CB themselves gave them a theory of the case, and some parts they can confirm - for example the Jag rego change. Working at Ocean club. Hard evidence of breaking and entering to commit assaults. Videotaping of assaults.



But I am kind of sceptical that we can determine from HCWs statements that they must necessarily have a lot more than this. Maybe one day we will find out!

But the evidence if it exists of breaking and entering and assaults was there in 2014 when OG went after the locals, now there must have been evidence that pointed to the three (apart from phone data) and not CB that led them to believe they were burglar's and acted on it which never pointed to any one else .It was even reported at the time one line of questioning to them was did you kill Madeleine, which has not even been put to CB.

 

[Woodburnbay]

What are you implying?
If it wasn't CB who's to say that the perp isn't already incarcerated for another crime.

Im not implying that we should be looking at anyone in particular so please don't draw me on this.

What I am saying is that if one person, and it appears to only be this person, who is currently under suspicion.
That where there has been no action against the suspect, the investigation looses momentum as investigators stop looking at others.

In plain language-The spotlight goes off others and the heat dies down.

 

[Davieson]

Im not implying that we should be looking at anyone in particular so please don't draw me on this.

What I am saying is that if one person, and it appears to only be this person, who is currently under suspicion.
That where there has been no action against the suspect, the investigation looses momentum as investigators stop looking at others.

In plain language-The spotlight goes off others and the heat dies down.

I certainly think that if CB is not charged, police will say the equivalent of 'not looking for anyone else' and CB will be left as the culprit irrespective of whether he is guilty or innocent.

 

[enquirer6]

Has he been questioned as a suspect, what ever he said previously counts for nothing until and unless the BKA can put it to him he killed Madeleine which is the claim.

Murdered, which is a specific type of killing Amaral was either <modsnip> incompetent to understand is what the enquiry he nominally 'headed' became, from before the British arrived; or he lied that (sic) we talked about death by others, not murder, in an ironically successful bid to keep his book from being declared libellous.

I suspect Herr Wolters has definitively proven Madeleine was murdered, but can't, quite, show definitively that Brueckner did it.

 

[Woodburnbay]

I certainly think that if CB is not charged, police will say the equivalent of 'not looking for anyone else' and CB will be left as the culprit irrespective of whether he is guilty or innocent.

Perhaps that was the purpose of putting him in the frame all along-Spotlight shifts.

 

[Woodburnbay]

Murdered, which is a specific type of killing Amaral was either <modsnip> incompetent to understand is what the enquiry he nominally 'headed' became, from before the British arrived; or he lied that (sic) we talked about death by others, not murder, in an ironically successful bid to keep his book from being declared libellous.

I suspect Herr Wolters has definitively proven Madeleine was murdered, but can't, quite, show definitively that Brueckner did it.

But would he murder her in the apartment where she slept?

 

[RichardKimble]

But would he murder her in the apartment where she slept?

How did he get her out of the apartment, one of the first hurdles the BKA have to overcome imo. Before any one says open window, a half decent defence would point to the crime scene photos of the shut window and dare say call KM to the witness box.

 

[RichardKimble]

I certainly think that if CB is not charged, police will say the equivalent of 'not looking for anyone else' and CB will be left as the culprit irrespective of whether he is guilty or innocent.

Which is basically what has happened in the Lamplugh case even with the CPS saying the suspect and victim cannot be placed together.