Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #33

[Sharkbite]

At BP’s scrapyard?

Yes, that is the most probable location imo, that guy would do anything for CB for some reason.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Yes, that is the most probable location imo, that guy would do anything for CB for some reason.

Perhaps CB holds incriminating information against him - wouldn’t be surprised if there are a few compromised people in CB’s address book.

 

[Deleted member 268165]

In light of this, I'm wondering if CB mainly left his Westfalia parked up at the beach as a kind of base while using his other vehicles to travel about in... or perhaps he just habitually returned to that same spot.

What do you think @Janosch could this be the Westfalia in June 2007 in your opinion? The steep shape of the bonnet and dimensions of the van look consistent to me.

Yes, it could be. We know the VW Westfalia was there (we have a photo). I am trying to see where would be CB in June 22, and when he carried out the Jaguar to Augsburg.

 

[Lyall0814]

But nothing moves forward anyway until the question of jurisdiction is dealt with. There are still five cases to be sorted out.

Why would any prosecution worth its salt flag up the evidence they hold regarding the MM case to the defence prematurely or until they re ready to do so.

Because it's not a sign of a healthy system when prosecutors can go around declaring people to be "100% guilty" of child murder for years?

As every German and all of us know power corrupts.

 

[Mex]

This is becoming a circular argument. My point is simply that CB should not be expected to defend himself until he is officially accused <modsnip>

HCW has stated: “It is now possible that we could charge. We have that evidence now.” This was in October 2021… 18-months later and still no charge… not even a timeline for one.

That is your opinion but I wonder if you apply the definition universally or do you consider there are exemptions?

The persons who are prolonging any timescale there may be are CB and his legal advisers who are doing their jobs. HCW definitely has an agenda insofar as delivering justice for the victims is concerned. I am sure he is as concerned about delay in that as you are. Progress is stalled for the moment to address the requirement to consider the rights of the accused in five serious cases.

Have you never wondered that there may be an imbalance in the expression of opinion regarding the inalienable rights of the accused, when weighed against that of the victims.

For example why are there vehement internet criticisms of HCW and his team who represent the victims of crime, but nothing about FF and his team who represent the accused. The former has tried to bring charges thus progressing events which the latter has done his utmost to derail.

My opinion – a balance needs to be made to ensure a level playing field and if there must be an argument at all, one which recognises the fairness of that for the accused and their representatives as well as for the victims and theirs.

 

[Davieson]

In the case of MM there is no timescale and bringing forth any prosecution is in the hands of Wolters.

With the other cases the defence can only react once charges have been laid and they know what they are dealing with.
I do wonder if CB has been formally questioned over these cases or if Wolters was just pushing ahead regardless.

 

[Mex]

Because it's not a sign of a healthy system when prosecutors can go around declaring people to be "100% guilty" of child murder for years?

As every German and all of us know power corrupts.

A lawful balance has to be struck on behalf of the accused and on behalf of the victim.

I perceive there are some who make unfounded allegations about the conduct of the case based only on personal opinion neither borne out by reality or the imposition of sanctions, unless you know of any I don't know about?
Not even citing Godwin's law can detract from the sad fact that MM disappeared sixteen years ago and no-one can be more anxious to get things moving than her family.
I don't hear them complaining, only thanking investigators for their efforts.

 

[Mex]

In the case of MM there is no timescale and bringing forth any prosecution is in the hands of Wolters.

With the other cases the defence can only react once charges have been laid and they know what they are dealing with.
I do wonder if CB has been formally questioned over these cases or if Wolters was just pushing ahead regardless.

As far as I know, the accused and the defence team under German law have access to all the case files available to the prosecution, as soon as charges are laid. There are no hidden surprises at trial.

CB may have been questioned, but he did not have to answer.

 

[Lyall0814]

A lawful balance has to be struck on behalf of the accused and on behalf of the victim.

I perceive there are some who make unfounded allegations about the conduct of the case based only on personal opinion neither borne out by reality or the imposition of sanctions, unless you know of any I don't know about?
Not even citing Godwin's law can detract from the sad fact that MM disappeared sixteen years ago and no-one can be more anxious to get things moving than her family.
I don't hear them complaining, only thanking investigators for their efforts.

We''re not complaining, we're discussing. It's up to Germany to decide if they're happy with their prosecutors behaving like this but if they can go around accusing the likes of CB for years without trial they can do the same to political rivals and political activists etc. That's what I'd be thinking, if I was German.

 

[Mex]

We''re not complaining, we're discussing. It's up to Germany to decide if they're happy with their prosecutors behaving like this but if they can go around accusing the likes of CB for years without trial they can do the same to political rivals and political activists etc. That's what I'd be thinking, if I was German.

Were I German I would be wondering why on earth the State was being forced to conduct so many trials which should have been prosecuted many years long since, in Portugal.

Since I am not German it is not my place to wonder, but to be thankful as a Briton that German investigators have taken the time and trouble to honour the duty of trying to solve the case of a missing British child.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

That is your opinion but I wonder if you apply the definition universally or do you consider there are exemptions?

The persons who are prolonging any timescale there may be are CB and his legal advisers who are doing their jobs. HCW definitely has an agenda insofar as delivering justice for the victims is concerned. I am sure he is as concerned about delay in that as you are. Progress is stalled for the moment to address the requirement to consider the rights of the accused in five serious cases.

Have you never wondered that there may be an imbalance in the expression of opinion regarding the inalienable rights of the accused, when weighed against that of the victims.

For example why are there vehement internet criticisms of HCW and his team who represent the victims of crime, but nothing about FF and his team who represent the accused. The former has tried to bring charges thus progressing events which the latter has done his utmost to derail.

My opinion – a balance needs to be made to ensure a level playing field and if there must be an argument at all, one which recognises the fairness of that for the accused and their representatives as well as for the victims and theirs.

It all depends on what we view as right and wrong - a deep ethical subject.

We can agree that MM was very likely a victim but until Christian Breuckner is convicted of abducting and murdering her, IMO, it is not right that we accept HCW’s, at present, baseless accusation that CB committed this crime.

IMO, the public accusation of CB is wrong. The investigation into CB could have occurred without the public accusation and this would have been completely fair to MM and her family. This is the way it normally happens and I think HCE kicked the hornets nest by taking the investigation in this unusual direction. FF has had to react and manage the situation as best as he can for his client.

Have you thought that perhaps CB didn’t commit this crime? He is one of four people to be made an official suspect - the other three never faced charges.

If the same situation happens again with CB, has the public accusation by HCW been right? Has it been fair treatment to MM and the many people who care that she gets justice?

So that I am clear as to my position, I have no idea what happened to MM. Until someone is convicted BARD, I am completely open to why and how she disappeared and who was involved - this is as fair as I can be to the victim.

 

[Dave55]

This is becoming a circular argument. My point is simply that CB should not be expected to defend himself until he is officially accused <modsnip>

HCW has stated: “It is now possible that we could charge. We have that evidence now.” This was in October 2021… 18-months later and still no charge… not even a timeline for one.

My thoughts that the evidence is photoghic fits with this.
They have the evidence but need to link it soundly to CB.
Imo to establish the MO in the other rape trials. That's why these trials have to take place first.
HCW also said he didn't want to reveal his evidence because the defence could claim other witnesses could could be influenced by it....that fits too

So this scenario fits,,..I'm not sure it's true...but it fits

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Were I German I would be wondering why on earth the State was being forced to conduct so many trials which should have been prosecuted many years long since, in Portugal.

Since I am not German it is not my place to wonder, but to be thankful as a Briton that German investigators have taken the time and trouble to honour the duty of trying to solve the case of a missing British child.

^Bold, if you listen to them, they’ve solved it but they’re not telling anyone, even the defendant, how. I don’t think this is right.

 

[Malleux]

it is not right that we accept HCW’s, at present, baseless accusation that CB committed this crime.

It very clearly isn't "baseless", else they wouldn't have been permitted to make the public appeal in the first place. It may not be BARD, but it is certainly isn't baseless.

The investigation into CB could have occurred without the public accusation and this would have been completely fair to MM and her family.

The investigation into CB had already been going on for 3 years in private and they obviously felt the public appeal was necessary in order to see if others could help fill in the blanks about CB's movements. It's about fulfilling their mandate when they already have strong evidence of a crime but not quite enough to convict.

You can argue the about the appropriateness of what HCW has said since then but in order to do the appeal they had to state the crime they were investigating, which is murder, and the consequence of that means there is a public accusation that they believe CB is a murderer.

Speaking about fairness to the McCanns, they have supported and welcomed the investigation, not criticised it.

 

[G-Unit]

It's clear to me that CB and his legal team think they are unlikely to receive a fair trial in Braunschweig and that is due to the behaviour of the Braunschweig Prosecutor's Office. So his legal team can't be blamed for taking the actions they have taken in my opinion.

 

[Consider Dudley]

Because it's not a sign of a healthy system when prosecutors can go around declaring people to be "100% guilty" of child murder for years?

As every German and all of us know power corrupts.

The prosecutor has expressed an opinion of guilt, not declared guilt as an absolute legal fact.

 

[Malleux]

It's clear to me that CB and his legal team think they are unlikely to receive a fair trial in Braunschweig and that is due to the behaviour of the Braunschweig Prosecutor's Office. So his legal team can't be blamed for taking the actions they have taken in my opinion.

It is clear to me that CB and his legal team are using every legal method at their disposal to disrupt the proceedings. Probably in the hope another jurisdiction might not take on all the charges or at least will not be able to argue as strong a case as the team who have been working on it for years.

Where does fairness come into it from CB's viewpoint? It's an independent judge who decides and they don't judge based on public claims in the press from the local prosecutor but on the evidence presented at trial. I don't see why a judge in Braunschweig will be less fair than a judge in Madgeburg. The only people all this isn't fair on is the victims IMO.

 

[Davieson]

It is clear to me that CB and his legal team are using every legal method at their disposal to disrupt the proceedings. Probably in the hope another jurisdiction might not take on the charges or at least will not be able to argue as strong a case as the team who have been working on it for years.

Where does fairness come into it from CB's viewpoint? It's an independent judge who decides, I don't see why a judge in Braunschweig will be less fair than a judge in Madgeburg. I'll tell you who it isn't fair on though - the victims.

Application of the law isn't about being fair, its about being legally correct

 

[Malleux]

Application of the law isn't about being fair, its about being legally correct

Well CB obviously thought it was legally correct when Braunschweig took jurisdiction in the DM case and the prosecutors seem to think they are still correct in assuming jurisdiction.

My point was that the current legal objection is not based on CB being unable to receive a "fair trial" in Braunschweig, for which there are other specific legal clauses on which a defence can raise an objection.

 

[Davieson]

Well CB obviously thought it was legally correct when Braunschweig took jurisdiction in the DM case and the prosecutors seem to think they are still correct in assuming jurisdiction.

My point was that the current legal objection is not based on CB being unable to receive a "fair trial" in Braunschweig, for which there are other specific legal clauses on which a defence can raise an objection.

He didn't, actually, in that he appealed against the trial being held in Germany following extradition from Italy.
He was found to be wrong.