Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #33

[RichardKimble]

Not necessarily.

In the most obvious example, had she been found buried at his ruined factory, it is not important to the elements of murder, how she was abducted. It is implicit that she must have been.

it is more important that the prosecution rule out other explanations.

There in lies another issue ,no body , I know wiki is not the most reliable but no body convictions in Germany are as rare as hens teeth, one of them on there is a miscarriage.

 

[Dave55]

There in lies another issue ,no body , I know wiki is not the most reliable but no body convictions in Germany are as rare as hens teeth, one of them on there is a miscarriage.

Afaiac...Wolters has recently successfully prosecuted a no body murder

 

[Mex]

I guess relevant evidence would be the thing. Is there any ?

There was sufficient evidence to indict CB with five crimes which neither he nor his legal team seem to be in much of a hurry to address in front of a judge.

 

[Davieson]

There was sufficient evidence to indict CB with five crimes which neither he nor his legal team seem to be in much of a hurry to address in front of a judge.

I thought we were talking MM. Amaral doesn't enter into these other charges or currently non-charges.

 

[Sharkbite]

I would not be surprised if he has more rapes

There are actually 7 or 8 "notches" on the beam in the farmhouse. I think the marks were made deliberately and not accidentally by furniture scuffing or something like that. Unfortunately we know what that beam was used for.

 

[Lyall0814]

Afaiac...Wolters has recently successfully prosecuted a no body murder

That would be well worth talking about if you have any more info about it.

 

[Mex]

I thought we were talking MM. Amaral doesn't enter into these other charges or currently non-charges.

Don't you ever wonder why it was that as coordinator of the judicial police at the time of the disappearance, GA didn't make more of an effort to have his men knocking on CB's door until he deigned to answered it.

 

[Davieson]

I think Redwood thought OG was a genuine investigation, but soon found otherwise and eventually slid off into obscurity.
His replacement, Walls, thought by some to be a high flyer kept her head down, appeared to do little of any significance and presided over a run down in manpower before following Redwood into obscurity.
Her replacement, name beyond my recollection, was given it as a sideshow to his day job in serious crime.
And so years went by until they got a lucky tip off from a criminal facing charges in Greece, at which point they dumped it on the Germans with great relief.
OG continues to be funded even though it appears to be doing very little.

 

[Pixie Child]

I think Redwood thought OG was a genuine investigation, but soon found otherwise and eventually slid off into obscurity.
His replacement, Walls, thought by some to be a high flyer kept her head down, appeared to do little of any significance and presided over a run down in manpower before following Redwood into obscurity.
Her replacement, name beyond my recollection, was given it as a sideshow to his day job in serious crime.
And so years went by until they got a lucky tip off from a criminal facing charges in Greece, at which point they dumped it on the Germans with great relief.
OG continues to be funded even though it appears to be doing very little.

Grange shows the importance of police keeping a case under active investigation and in the public eye. HB called Scotland Yard when he needed a lifeline & some cash. HB will be an important witness - he knows if anyone else was involved.

 

[Consider Dudley]

I think Redwood thought OG was a genuine investigation, but soon found otherwise and eventually slid off into obscurity.
His replacement, Walls, thought by some to be a high flyer kept her head down, appeared to do little of any significance and presided over a run down in manpower before following Redwood into obscurity.
Her replacement, name beyond my recollection, was given it as a sideshow to his day job in serious crime.
And so years went by until they got a lucky tip off from a criminal facing charges in Greece, at which point they dumped it on the Germans with great relief.
OG continues to be funded even though it appears to be doing very little.

Speculation

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Speculation

Probably why he started the post with “I think…”.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I thought was interesting, it’s written by Mark Rowley:

We Will Continue To Investigate Madeline McCann's Disappearance With Focus And Determination

As detectives, we will always be extremely disappointed when we are unable to provide an explanation of what happened. However the work carried out by Portuguese and Met officers in reviewing material and reopening the investigation has been successful in taking a number of lines of interest to...

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

 

[Denis R Tandib]

In informed and IMO very fair view of the scope and aims of OG - worth a read if you haven’t already.

Madeleine McCann and Operation Grange

At the outset I should say that I don't know what happened to Madeleine McCann. All the evidence available to me – and there is more and de...

colinsutton.blogspot.com

 

[mrjitty]

I find the criticisms of all 3 of the PJ, Met and BKA quite unfair as far as solving the case goes.

In missing body cases, you need to get a break in the case, even when you have a good idea of who did it.

There seems to be a general belief that if you have a theory who did it, you can solve the case. But in practice it is not so simple because the evidence (i.e. the body) can't be found.

The problem in this case has always been that any abductor apparently got clean away. Therefore there is no easy way to get into the case. Now usually the body turns up years later. But that hasn't happened.

All the forces have tended to follow the evidence such as it was but ended up in dead ends, until a rat gave them a solid lead. But 6 years after that - still no charges because where is the body.

A prosecutor in Braunschweig (of all places!) does not care about all the history of this case. Especially he does not care about Amaral, or local politics at the Met or PJ. He wants to find the body, or some forensics, and IMO that is what has driven him from the outset.

His appeal may well now close a cold case (HB). But it is beyond obvious by now his other hopes didn't materialise.

02c

 

[mrjitty]

I don't believe the identities are known. Else they would have been able to have given their exact ages in the indictment.

Just on the point of the middle aged "italian" woman, this doesn't form the basis of the latest charges. There were inconsistencies in the accounts of Manfred and Helge over her description and the location of the rape. In the latest charges, they have gone with the description that Helge gave of an older british woman in a holiday apartment. Presumably they see his account as more reliable, and he is the more key witness, since he viewed a lot more of the tapes and claims there were recordings of that same rape made from multiple angles. Whereas Manfred claims to have only seen part of it, very briefly, and from only one angle. His assertion the woman was italian was based on hearing one word which he interpreted to mean "help" in italian, nothing about an accent. Of course, he may have simply misheard what she said, whereas Helge having seen the rape twice from 2 angles claims the woman called CB obscenities in English and with a British accent.

Right.

I wondered if Manfred had actually seen a different rape? Between them they seemed to describe different scenes which is a potentially difficulty.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Right.

I wondered if Manfred had actually seen a different rape? Between them they seemed to describe different scenes which is a potentially difficulty.

This is what was originally reported. I’ve always wondered if help in Italian sounds similar to help in Portuguese - spoken by an older person undergoing an horrific ordeal?

German paedophile suspected of murdering Madeleine McCann is named

The 43-year-old German man is currently in prison serving a prison sentence for raping a 72-year-old American woman in Portugal and has two previous convictions for "sexual contact with girls"

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Deleted member 268165]

Neither PJ, nor Met, nor BKA will be able to claim success in resolving the case.

In 1978 wirter Jorge Luis Borges said: "Tenemos, pues, el relato policial como un género intelectual. Como un género basado en algo totalmente ficticio: el hecho de que un crimen es descubierto por un razonador abstracto y no por delaciones, por descuidos de los criminales."

Free translation (bold are mine): "We have, then, the detective story as an intellectual genre. As a genre based on something totally fictitious: the fact that a crime is discovered by an abstract reasoner and not by denunciations of a criminal informer, or by carelessness of the criminals."

The cite is good for our case. What would have happened if HB hadn't spoken?

 

[Dave55]

In informed and IMO very fair view of the scope and aims of OG - worth a read if you haven’t already.

Madeleine McCann and Operation Grange

At the outset I should say that I don't know what happened to Madeleine McCann. All the evidence available to me – and there is more and de...

colinsutton.blogspot.com

Sutton didn't seem to realise that Grange was limited by extra territorial jurisdiction. Grange had no power to interview the Mccanns under caution unless they were suspected if homicide or sexual abuse.
His phonecall did not mention the McCanns. Grange was limited into what it could or couldnt look at by extra territorial jurisdiction.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Neither PJ, nor Met, nor BKA will be able to claim success in resolving the case.

In 1978 wirter Jorge Luis Borges said: "Tenemos, pues, el relato policial como un género intelectual. Como un género basado en algo totalmente ficticio: el hecho de que un crimen es descubierto por un razonador abstracto y no por delaciones, por descuidos de los criminales."

Free translation (bold are mine): "We have, then, the detective story as an intellectual genre. As a genre based on something totally fictitious: the fact that a crime is discovered by an abstract reasoner and not by denunciations of a criminal informer, or by carelessness of the criminals."

The cite is good for our case. What would have happened if HB hadn't spoken?

I don’t think our criminal was careless. Is this possible in a burglary gone wrong/opportunist abduction?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Sutton didn't seem to realise that Grange was limited by extra territorial jurisdiction. Grange had no power to interview the Mccanns under caution unless they were suspected if homicide or sexual abuse.
His phonecall did not mention the McCanns. Grange was limited into what it could or couldnt look at by extra territorial jurisdiction.

For anyone else thinking it was something to with space aliens like like @Janosch’s view of Amaral’s theory - it’s not:

Extraterritorial jurisdiction factsheet

www.gov.uk

Just had a quick scan, doesn’t article 36 mean that the McCanns could be questioned?