Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #33

[Davieson]

I think the perpetrator was extremely lucky to carry out the disappearance unobserved, later aided by a plethora of red herrings, such as 'suspicious characters' and spurious sighting across Europe, which however well meaning overloaded police resources.

 

[Consider Dudley]

For anyone else thinking it was something to with space aliens like like @Janosch’s view of Amaral’s theory - it’s not:

Extraterritorial jurisdiction factsheet

www.gov.uk

Just had a quick scan, doesn’t article 36 mean that the McCanns could be questioned?

For sexual offences? That seems a rather libellous suggestion on your part.

 

[Mex]

Neither PJ, nor Met, nor BKA will be able to claim success in resolving the case.

In 1978 wirter Jorge Luis Borges said: "Tenemos, pues, el relato policial como un género intelectual. Como un género basado en algo totalmente ficticio: el hecho de que un crimen es descubierto por un razonador abstracto y no por delaciones, por descuidos de los criminales."

Free translation (bold are mine): "We have, then, the detective story as an intellectual genre. As a genre based on something totally fictitious: the fact that a crime is discovered by an abstract reasoner and not by denunciations of a criminal informer, or by carelessness of the criminals."

The cite is good for our case. What would have happened if HB hadn't spoken?

If HB hadn't seen the content of the video I think the Statute of Limitations would have taken effect in Portugal uninterrupted, there would have been no justice for DM because the BKA would not have checked Portuguese files relating to CB and there would have been no funding to keep OG functioning because there would have been no prime suspect in the frame.

JG has said from the first that the only way to solve the case was if someone comes forward with information;
I think HB has proved him right.

From the Sun
But Mr Gamble, who was head of the UK's Child Exploitation And Online Protection Centre at the time, believes the case will be solved.

He thinks that will likely only happen when Madeleine's abductor or their associates come forward and confess.
As time goes on, relationships change and people who’ve done things have life changing experiences that make them feel the need to tell. I think that can happen
J G Former Head Of The Child Exploitation And Online Protection Centre

Madeleine McCann cop says case will be solved by confession 'within my lifetime'

A LEADING detective in the Madeleine McCann case said last night he believes her abductor or an informant will confess within his lifetime. Jim Gamble, who was the UK’s top child protection o…

www.thesun.co.uk

 

[RichardKimble]

I think the perpetrator was extremely lucky to carry out the disappearance unobserved, later aided by a plethora of red herrings, such as 'suspicious characters' and spurious sighting across Europe, which however well meaning overloaded police resources.

Its always been a case of he saw , she saw, they saw , now its he (CB) is alleged to have said.

 

[mrjitty]

Neither PJ, nor Met, nor BKA will be able to claim success in resolving the case.

In 1978 wirter Jorge Luis Borges said: "Tenemos, pues, el relato policial como un género intelectual. Como un género basado en algo totalmente ficticio: el hecho de que un crimen es descubierto por un razonador abstracto y no por delaciones, por descuidos de los criminales."

Free translation (bold are mine): "We have, then, the detective story as an intellectual genre. As a genre based on something totally fictitious: the fact that a crime is discovered by an abstract reasoner and not by denunciations of a criminal informer, or by carelessness of the criminals."

The cite is good for our case. What would have happened if HB hadn't spoken?

Agree 100%

And similarly to the current Morphew case (can't find the body), and the McStay case before that, until the body turns up by chance - now what?

 

[RichardKimble]

Agree 100%

And similarly to the current Morphew case (can't find the body), and the McStay case before that, until the body turns up by chance - now what?

Lamplugh case, CPS said without a body no realistic chance of a conviction.

 

[mrjitty]

If HB hadn't seen the content of the video I think the Statute of Limitations would have taken effect in Portugal uninterrupted, there would have been no justice for DM because the BKA would not have checked Portuguese files relating to CB and there would have been no funding to keep OG functioning because there would have been no prime suspect in the frame.

JG has said from the first that the only way to solve the case was if someone comes forward with information;
I think HB has proved him right.

From the Sun
But Mr Gamble, who was head of the UK's Child Exploitation And Online Protection Centre at the time, believes the case will be solved.

He thinks that will likely only happen when Madeleine's abductor or their associates come forward and confess.
As time goes on, relationships change and people who’ve done things have life changing experiences that make them feel the need to tell. I think that can happen
J G Former Head Of The Child Exploitation And Online Protection Centre

Madeleine McCann cop says case will be solved by confession 'within my lifetime'

A LEADING detective in the Madeleine McCann case said last night he believes her abductor or an informant will confess within his lifetime. Jim Gamble, who was the UK’s top child protection o…

www.thesun.co.uk

The key point is though, they then found evidential corroboration from the tip

HB described shocking crimes, but is also not a hugely credible witness. But he described specific things that match the victims testimony. Therefore he could only have known those things if he really did see the video and CB was the perp. In addition, they had the hair. This process then gets them a long way in the HB cold case, even if no forensics.

In the MM case, the problem is no body, and no physical evidence. So what shall be that critical piece of evidence that proves CB did it? e.g. a piece of knowledge only the killer can have because it was never made public?

 

[RichardKimble]

I thought was interesting, it’s written by Mark Rowley:

We Will Continue To Investigate Madeline McCann's Disappearance With Focus And Determination

As detectives, we will always be extremely disappointed when we are unable to provide an explanation of what happened. However the work carried out by Portuguese and Met officers in reviewing material and reopening the investigation has been successful in taking a number of lines of interest to...

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

Video at the time.

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/interview-with-assistant-commissioner-mark-rowley-who-news-footage/673183860

 

[Mex]

The key point is though, they then found evidential corroboration from the tip

HB described shocking crimes, but is also not a hugely credible witness. But he described specific things that match the victims testimony. Therefore he could only have known those things if he really did see the video and CB was the perp. In addition, they had the hair. This process then gets them a long way in the HB cold case, even if no forensics.

In the MM case, the problem is no body, and no physical evidence. So what shall be that critical piece of evidence that proves CB did it? e.g. a piece of knowledge only the killer can have because it was never made public?

It is not unheard of in Germany for murder convictions to occur without the evidence of a body

Spain's News

Read Spanish news in English. All the main Spanish news outlets in one place in English. Updated hourly with the latest news from Spain and the Canary Islands.

newsingermany.com

Police officer sentenced to life imprisonment​

This was a relatively long trial despite the presence of fresh forensic traces, blood etc.

​

 

[Denis R Tandib]

It is not unheard of in Germany for murder convictions to occur without the evidence of a body

Spain's News

Read Spanish news in English. All the main Spanish news outlets in one place in English. Updated hourly with the latest news from Spain and the Canary Islands.

newsingermany.com

Police officer sentenced to life imprisonment​

This was a relatively long trial despite the presence of fresh forensic traces, blood etc.

​

This makes it a much stronger case than MM though IMO:

“Investigators found a pool of blood on the terrace, bloody drag marks and the missing person’s broken glasses. Significant accumulations of blood were also found inside the car. Based on further evidence, the Chamber assumes that the father of the family is no longer alive.”

 

[Mex]

The key point is though, they then found evidential corroboration from the tip

HB described shocking crimes, but is also not a hugely credible witness. But he described specific things that match the victims testimony. Therefore he could only have known those things if he really did see the video and CB was the perp. In addition, they had the hair. This process then gets them a long way in the HB cold case, even if no forensics.

In the MM case, the problem is no body, and no physical evidence. So what shall be that critical piece of evidence that proves CB did it? e.g. a piece of knowledge only the killer can have because it was never made public?

I wonder if it was his intention to return to recover the buried material which seems to have been recovered intact.
Why didn't he destroy it entirely? I don't think haste was a factor because he had time to bury the dog on top of the concealed hoard.

Was he sure there was nothing relating to MM buried there.

 

[RichardKimble]

It is not unheard of in Germany for murder convictions to occur without the evidence of a body

Spain's News

Read Spanish news in English. All the main Spanish news outlets in one place in English. Updated hourly with the latest news from Spain and the Canary Islands.

newsingermany.com

Police officer sentenced to life imprisonment​

This was a relatively long trial despite the presence of fresh forensic traces, blood etc.

​

Not unheard of, but lots linking the perp to the crime, unlike the MM case .

 

[Denis R Tandib]

For sexual offences? That seems a rather libellous suggestion on your part.

No sorry, my mistake. I thought just under 18.

 

[Mex]

Not unheard of, but lots linking the perp to the crime, unlike the MM case .

The forensics were botched in the MM case

Madeleine: How the police ruined the forensic evidence in her bedroom

Poice searching for Madeleine McCann allowed potentially crucial clues from her bed to be destroyed, it emerged yesterday.

www.standard.co.uk

But despite that hers is till very much a live case being actively investigated as is CB's association with it.

 

[mrjitty]

It is not unheard of in Germany for murder convictions to occur without the evidence of a body

Spain's News

Read Spanish news in English. All the main Spanish news outlets in one place in English. Updated hourly with the latest news from Spain and the Canary Islands.

newsingermany.com

Police officer sentenced to life imprisonment​

This was a relatively long trial despite the presence of fresh forensic traces, blood etc.

​

Sure - but again that's my point.

Where's the forensics coming from? Do they have digital evidence? In the collapsed Morphew trial, they at least had large amounts of digital evidence which incriminated the accused.

To my mind you need either forensics, digital, or the body (giving you a link)

 

[Dave55]

For anyone else thinking it was something to with space aliens like like @Janosch’s view of Amaral’s theory - it’s not:

Extraterritorial jurisdiction factsheet

www.gov.uk

Just had a quick scan, doesn’t article 36 mean that the McCanns could be questioned?

McCann's can be questioned as witnesses but not formally questioned ...that's under caution...unless Grange had evidence of sexual abuse

 

[mrjitty]

McCann's can be questioned as witnesses but not formally questioned ...that's under caution...unless Grange had evidence of sexual abuse

I'm fairly sure they spoke to JT - that is how they finally resolved her sighting to the man picking up his kid from creche.

They wouldn't have gone on TV announcing that to the world if they felt the main witness wouldn't agree

I would also not be surprised if they interviewed the McCs as victims. Why wouldn't you.

 

[Davieson]

McCann's can be questioned as witnesses but not formally questioned ...that's under caution...unless Grange had evidence of sexual abuse

So if hypothetically, police had evidence of MM being killed/disposed of by her parents, they couldn't question them under caution ? Is that what you are saying ?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Thinking about a few recent comments, there are consistencies between the DM, HB and perhaps the two video recorded rapes found by HB and MS. All four were in fact video recorded which suggests it was something CB did when committing these offences i.e. all the rapes we know of were recorded.

It was suggested up-thread that there were possibly more rapes which does seem likely as all four of the known offences could have happened within a couple of years.

Given CB has been charged for the two video recorded rapes without a dates or identified victims, is there any possibility that if HCW had more images/footage of rapes he would not have charged CB at this time? In other words, if he had similar offences on video, would he definitely be charging CB now even if there were no victims?

I am looking at the possibility of the MM photo evidence. We know that CB has likely committed at least four rapes, all recorded. IMO, it’s likely that if he had saved images/footage of himself committing offences amongst the 8,000 files at the box factory, some of these would be rapes - does that logic follow?

But, he has not been charged for any offences other than the ones above, all of which were uncovered by German LE through witness statements and cold case requests from Portugal.

Therefore, can we conclude that there were no videos/images of CB committing rapes found at the box factory?

If so, does this reduce the possibility that CB saved and buried any videos or images MM at the box factory?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

So if hypothetically, police had evidence of MM being killed/disposed of by her parents, they couldn't question them under caution ? Is that what you are saying ?

I think he’s saying that in that scenario, they would have to be questioned under caution by the Portuguese. What I can’t understand though is what would happen if OG identified another British suspect?