Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #34

[Mex]

Why did BKA/HCW launch the appeal in June 3, 2020?

I think that may have been part of a longer term plan. I can think of no reason why they would have gone public before they were ready to other than they were acting prematurely when details of the investigation had been publicised.

It is possible that not even CB knew he was being so closely looked at that time relative to the MM case. My opinion.

 

[Malleux]

IMO the most interesting words by HCW are:

"Sometimes you have the feeling that you know what happened, but you are not in the position of being able to prove it to charge someone.”

JC's book.

I think it should be made clear that this comment made by HCW was nothing to do with the MM case against CB.

He was referring to Nicole F and the robbery of 100k in Praia da Gale that she and CB were suspected of committing.

I don't know if you already knew that and were only quoting it because you think it might be an applicable statement of the MM case as well, but it could be confusing to others here who haven't read JC's book and who might be thinking you are attributing this quote as something HCW has specifically said about the MM case.

In the MM case he has said they are 100% convinced, not that they "have a feeling". He's also said they have enough proof to charge him. Whether we believe that or not is another matter, but I think it's important for the accuracy of the thread not to confuse statements HCW has made about a separate case (that they aren't even trying to pursue) with his position on the MM investigation.

 

[Pixie Child]

As I mentioned earlier, we’ve discussed the bar room confession. Is there a good source for it? I think it’s misreporting and both confessions are one and same - to HB at Orgiva.

If this is the case, it’s the word of a human trafficker vs the word of sexual monster.

It’s not enough IMO.

I don’t know if there’s a good source. There was a German TV show featuring his friends from Braunschweig. It was in German so I didn't understand it. But I thought it came from there.

It is reported that he was in a bar with someone and there was a TV report around the 10th anniversary. I think I’ve also seen it reported that he showed the same person a rape video. Not the same as HB imo.

A confession to a human trafficker carries some weight in that CB might be most honest with a fellow criminal. The Defence will argue HB was looking for money, a way out of jail - but he will be redeemed by his contacting PJ years earlier - when he had nothing to gain.

 

[Deleted member 268165]

I think it should be made clear that this comment made by HCW was nothing to do with the MM case against CB.

He was referring to Nicole F and the robbery of 100k in Praia da Gale that she and CB were suspected of committing.

I don't know if you already knew that and were only quoting it because you think it might be an applicable statement of the MM case as well, but it could be confusing to others here who haven't read JC's book and who might be thinking you are attributing this quote as something HCW has specifically said about the MM case.

In the MM case he has said they are 100% convinced, not that they "have a feeling". He's also said they have enough proof to charge him. Whether we believe that or not is another matter, but I think it's important for the accuracy of the thread not to confuse statements HCW has made about a separate case (that they aren't even trying to pursue) with his position on the MM investigation.

I put it because the assertion seems to be a general thought of HCW.

 

[Malleux]

There's been a number of plausible theories proposed as to why there may be good reasons for taking these 5 other cases on first before going in with the MM charge. At the moment though, they are all speculation and ultimately we can only go off the official reason given by HCW; that they already have a case strong enough to bring an indictment but they feel they can potentially strengthen it further with time on their hands. His position from Oct 21 makes total sense to me -


Speaking exclusively to the Mirror, German prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters said: “It is now possible that we could charge. We have that evidence now.

“But it’s not just about charging him – we want to charge him with the best body of evidence possible.

“When we still have questions, it would be nonsense to charge rather than wait for the answers that could strengthen our position.

“That’s why we said we’ll investigate as long as there are leads or information for us to pursue. I’m not saying that what we have is insufficient now. But he’s in prison, so we don’t have this pressure on us. We have time on our hands.”

Prosecutor '100% convinced' suspect abducted and murdered Madeleine McCann

Madeleine McCann prosecutors say they have no body and no DNA but other evidence leads to only one conclusion - jailed rapist Christian Brueckner is guilty and could be charged next year

www.mirror.co.uk

In the 5 other cases, they have obviously taken those investigations as far as they can realistically go. In the MM case they clearly believe there's more leads they can continue investigating and in ideal world, they would obviously like to recover the body before charging. While there is still a chance of that happening and there is no time pressure on them to charge, it makes sense that they continue to investigate in the hope of a breakthrough, or at least gather more evidence to help make a conviction more certain. It might only take one small thing, such as a sighting of CB perhaps, to help with that.

Just purely as an example, lets say they have evidence that points to MM's body being put in a well. They can't really ask the PJ to go searching every well in the Algarve, there's thousands of them. However, if some new info came to light that puts CB in a specific location, in the time frame they believe CB disposed of the body, that may be enough to convince the PJ to undertake another well search in that area. JMO.

 

[RichardKimble]

Correct me if I've got it wrong, but you do not think there is photographic evidence featuring MM and CB and are trying to convince your opinion is the correct one.

Even if so why be so adamant about this single issue at this stage when we do know that much of the case centres on circumstantial evidence which we know little about.

I'm trying to convince no one, you chose to read and comment, I've an opinion you've one, whether either is right time will tell or not as the case maybe.

 

[Deleted member 268165]

IMO, if CB does not confess MM crime, BKA/MET/PJ will not be able to prosecute him and obtain a guilty sentence.

 

[RichardKimble]

Why did BKA/HCW launch the appeal in June 3, 2020?

Do you thing BKA/MET/PJ are competing or collaborating to crack the case?

I think the appeal and having a suspect was to hopefully realise evidence, if they had of appealed without a suspect then little interest would have been raised I'd surmise.

 

[RichardKimble]

IMO, if CB does not confess MM crime, BKA/MET/PJ will not be able to prosecute him and obtain a guilty sentence.

Then it could be that the defence team hold the cards, the prosecution need to prove BARD.

 

[enquirer6]

Then it could be that the defence team hold the cards, the prosecution need to prove BARD.

Why would they have to prove an affiliation to Shakespeare?

 

[RichardKimble]

I'm not sure about that. As soon as a charge is made the case files are passed to defence lawyers. There may well be something within which could compromise one of the five trials which are on hold until jurisdiction is decided.

If it transpired at lets say a later trial and it was found that withholding something that could have compromised the outcome ,the defence would have a field day.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I don’t know if there’s a good source. There was a German TV show featuring his friends from Braunschweig. It was in German so I didn't understand it. But I thought it came from there.

It is reported that he was in a bar with someone and there was a TV report around the 10th anniversary. I think I’ve also seen it reported that he showed the same person a rape video. Not the same as HB imo.

A confession to a human trafficker carries some weight in that CB might be most honest with a fellow criminal. The Defence will argue HB was looking for money, a way out of jail - but he will be redeemed by his contacting PJ years earlier - when he had nothing to gain.

Like I mentioned before, we covered the bar confession and it is likely that information that was given to someone while CB was drunk and that same person saw a rape video and it happened in 2017… all looks like misreporting.

I think we only have HB’s word for it that he tried to contact the PJ before but I could be wrong.

FF made a fair point about why HB waited for 10 years and until he was in jail before providing his info to OG. It did after all start in 2011.

I feel quite sure there is only one confession to HB and even though he was helpful in the DM case, it was the DNA evidence that gained the conviction. I don’t think what he has to say in the MM case, without forensics, will be that strong,

 

[RichardKimble]

Why would they have to prove an affiliation to Shakespeare?

You know what he wrote about lawyers.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Why did BKA/HCW launch the appeal in June 3, 2020?

Do you thing BKA/MET/PJ are competing or collaborating to crack the case?

They had investigated a case with global interest for three years. It looked like everything was falling into place but they didn’t get evidence strong enough to charge so they went public.

They are collaborating, the PJ naming CB an Aguido and OG continuing to receive funding gives that indication.

 

[RichardKimble]

However, Wolters is convinced not only that MM is dead, but that she was murdered by CB, though he doesn't seem to know where or when, so he must have some evidence that leads him to that conclusion.

Then why does there appear to be a disconnect.

Madeleine McCann vanished from her parents' holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, in May 2007, and ever since they have continued to hope she is alive and will be reunited with them one day.

Madeleine McCann's parents issue new statement on missing girl's 20th birthday

Madeleine McCann vanished from her parents' holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, in May 2007, and ever since they have continued to hope she is alive and will be reunited with them one day

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Deleted member 268165]

They had investigated a case with global interest for three years. It looked like everything was falling into place but they didn’t get evidence strong enough to charge so they went public.

They are collaborating, the PJ naming CB an Aguido and OG continuing to receive funding gives that indication.

I understand that, in the case CB was not the abductor/killer, another individual could not be prosecuted by law. Right?

 

[Mex]

There's been a number of plausible theories proposed as to why there may be good reasons for taking these 5 other cases on first before going in with the MM charge. At the moment though, they are all speculation and ultimately we can only go off the official reason given by HCW; that they already have a case strong enough to bring an indictment but they feel they can potentially strengthen it further with time on their hands. His position from Oct 21 makes total sense to me -


Speaking exclusively to the Mirror, German prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters said: “It is now possible that we could charge. We have that evidence now.

“But it’s not just about charging him – we want to charge him with the best body of evidence possible.

“When we still have questions, it would be nonsense to charge rather than wait for the answers that could strengthen our position.

“That’s why we said we’ll investigate as long as there are leads or information for us to pursue. I’m not saying that what we have is insufficient now. But he’s in prison, so we don’t have this pressure on us. We have time on our hands.”

Prosecutor '100% convinced' suspect abducted and murdered Madeleine McCann

Madeleine McCann prosecutors say they have no body and no DNA but other evidence leads to only one conclusion - jailed rapist Christian Brueckner is guilty and could be charged next year

www.mirror.co.uk

In the 5 other cases, they have obviously taken those investigations as far as they can realistically go. In the MM case they clearly believe there's more leads they can continue investigating and in ideal world, they would obviously like to recover the body before charging. While there is still a chance of that happening and there is no time pressure on them to charge, it makes sense that they continue to investigate in the hope of a breakthrough, or at least gather more evidence to help make a conviction more certain. It might only take one small thing, such as a sighting of CB perhaps, to help with that.

Just purely as an example, lets say they have evidence that points to MM's body being put in a well. They can't really ask the PJ to go searching every well in the Algarve, there's thousands of them. However, if some new info came to light that puts CB in a specific location, in the time frame they believe CB disposed of the body, that may be enough to convince the PJ to undertake another well search in that area. JMO.

From memory I believe the PJ conducted their own searches in specific wells as you suggest in your post and it was said this was their own initiative and nothing at all to do with the German investigation.

Just checked and came up with the following cite

Madeleine McCann police failed to tell prosecutors about plan to search wells

Portuguese police sent divers to explore three wells last week in the search for Maddie, although they failed to tell German prosecutors about the dives amid calls for a joint investigation

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Niner]

So - I am way behind - any court dates yet?

TIA!

 

[Malleux]

From memory I believe the PJ conducted their own searches in specific wells as you suggest in your post and it was said this was their own initiative and nothing at all to do with the German investigation.

Just checked and came up with the following cite

Madeleine McCann police failed to tell prosecutors about plan to search wells

Portuguese police sent divers to explore three wells last week in the search for Maddie, although they failed to tell German prosecutors about the dives amid calls for a joint investigation

www.mirror.co.uk

Yes, they didn't tell the Germans they were doing it but as discussed on the last thread, HCW clarified that the searches were in fact carried out based on specific intel the Germans had given to the Portuguese police. Most likely to do with wells rather than the specific area the PJ eventually picked to search.

Post in thread 'Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #33' Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #33

Post in thread 'Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #33' Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #33

 

[Hexe]

Precisely because he is the spokesperson. Everyone else involved is pretty much faceless and unknown.

I'm not sure that Wolters is an investigator as he's a prosecutor. I think the two are separate functions.

Not in Germany. The prosecutor there is a head of investigation. He leads, directs and controls it.