Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #34

[Lyall0814]

If you expect a competent defence to hold up their hands on their client's behalf were a photograph introduced into evidence without question, were I the said client (or his backers) I would be demanding my money back
My opinion

I'm sure all sorts of questions would be raised but if names weren't offered then it wouldn't change the conclusion. Anyway our discussion is (almost certainly) entirely hypothetical as there is no such photo. Trust me If there was there'd have been no delay (imo)

 

[Tekno]

HCW has already said BKA have enough evidence to charge CB with Madeleine's murder. However, imo that is not enough when they are also seeking people who may have knowledge of the passage of the crime. CB reportedly had " a horrible job to do in Luz" and also seems to have come into a substantial sum of money in the weeks following Madeleine's disappearance. I don't think it's enough to just convict the alleged murderer when it seems that there is at least one other co-conspirator still unpunished.
CB also minimises his own involvement when saying he "knows what happened to Madeleine".

Spot on, Misty. IMO.

 

[Mex]

I'm sure all sorts of questions would be raised but if names weren't offered then it wouldn't change the conclusion. Anyway our discussion is (almost certainly) entirely hypothetical as there is no such photo. Trust me If there was there'd have been no delay (imo)

Agreed that at our level all discussion is hypothetical but a lot can be ascertained from some of what we have been told or not as the case may be, as well as the general "body language" of the investigation itself. My opinion

 

[Consider Dudley]

I'm sure all sorts of questions would be raised but if names weren't offered then it wouldn't change the conclusion. Anyway our discussion is (almost certainly) entirely hypothetical as there is no such photo. Trust me If there was there'd have been no delay (imo)

Charged with what though? Possessing the photo? Can you secure a successful convicton for murder on the basis of one photo?

 

[Lyall0814]

Charged with what though? Possessing the photo? Can you secure a successful convicton for murder on the basis of one photo?

Depends on what the photo showed I think. But imo no such photo exists anyway so thinking about what a hypothetical photo might show is thankfully unnecessary.

But if one did exist they wouldn't be trying to convict him on that evidence alone would they. They have alleged confessions. Some of us were arguing that the circumstantial evidence the prosecutors have claimed to have plus a photo would be enough to charge CB. Others think it still wouldn't be enough, because they'd still need to prove who took the photo. Personally I think HCW would swap his Eintracht Braunschweig season ticket for any evidence like that (joking, I've no idea if he's a footie fan) and if he did have it he'd rush to the judges holding it high in the air, begging for the earliest trial date.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Then luckily, it is no coincidence that we are both making reference to the same topic which is CB and MM.

As a direct result of German involvement in the MM investigation, other heinous crimes have been uncovered. All of which like the MM disappearance occurred in Portugal.

The defence have adopted a procedural role on behalf of the client CB, as is their right and his.

Why then would it be extraordinary for the prosecution to adopt procedure on behalf of the victims they are representing. Surely it is their right to determine the optimum time and the manner for them to proceed with the conduct and the order of those cases.

Surely what is sauce for the goose etc; My opinion

Your opinion is very different to HCW’s investigation. It looks like he does not believe the current charges are part of the procedure of indicting CB for MM’s murder - no consistent MO theory, nothing. It’s an independent case, presumably with its own evidence.

Asked if there was any significance to the fact Brueckner has been charged with offences near where Maddie disappeared, Mr Wolters said: "In principle, none. Whether Christian B. has anything to do with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann or not is to be judged completely independently of the current charges."

Furthermore, statements like the below, from the same article, cause me to be sceptical. He is confident, he has enough evidence to charge CB now (Oct 2021), he is sure CB killed MM, in July 2000 the investigation was going to take a couple of months blah blah. Then in Oct last year, he is suggesting charges may not be brought.

For anyone - especially those paying such close attention to what CB is saying - this should make them sceptical!

“There will definitely be no charge this year. Whether there will be a charge at all, and if so when, is completely open."

"Whether charges are brought is always decided after the investigation has been completed. However, since the investigations in the Maddie case have not been concluded, no decision has been made yet on whether charges can be brought or not.

"We want to clarify the fate of Madeleine McCann and bring the perpetrator to justice. Whether it is Christian B. and whether the evidence is sufficient for a prosecution, we will decide in due course."

Have whatever opinions and beliefs you want but they are not supported by the prosecutor who you seem to have so much faith in.

Madeleine McCann suspect won't be charged this year, prosecutor says

Hans Wolters says that previous claims the suspect would be charged in relation to Maddie's disappearance by Christmas this year were "misinformation".

www.express.co.uk

 

[Mex]

Your opinion is very different to HCW’s investigation. It looks like he does not believe the current charges are part of the procedure of indicting CB for MM’s murder - no consistent MO theory, nothing. It’s an independent case, presumably with its own evidence.

Asked if there was any significance to the fact Brueckner has been charged with offences near where Maddie disappeared, Mr Wolters said: "In principle, none. Whether Christian B. has anything to do with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann or not is to be judged completely independently of the current charges."

Furthermore, statements like the below, from the same article, cause me to be sceptical. He is confident, he has enough evidence to charge CB now (Oct 2021), he is sure CB killed MM, in July 2000 the investigation was going to take a couple of months blah blah. Then in Oct last year, he is suggesting charges may not be brought.

For anyone - especially those paying such close attention to what CB is saying - this should make them sceptical!

“There will definitely be no charge this year. Whether there will be a charge at all, and if so when, is completely open."

"Whether charges are brought is always decided after the investigation has been completed. However, since the investigations in the Maddie case have not been concluded, no decision has been made yet on whether charges can be brought or not.

"We want to clarify the fate of Madeleine McCann and bring the perpetrator to justice. Whether it is Christian B. and whether the evidence is sufficient for a prosecution, we will decide in due course."

Have whatever opinions and beliefs you want but they are not supported by the prosecutor who you seem to have so much faith in.

Madeleine McCann suspect won't be charged this year, prosecutor says

Hans Wolters says that previous claims the suspect would be charged in relation to Maddie's disappearance by Christmas this year were "misinformation".

www.express.co.uk

We shall just have to wait and see.

 

[SuperdadV8]

How does funding for lawyers in Germany work?

Presumably the State pays Brueckner's legal bill and appoints his lawyer?

Of course, but one. Not three of them!!!

 

[Denis R Tandib]

HCW has already said BKA have enough evidence to charge CB with Madeleine's murder. However, imo that is not enough when they are also seeking people who may have knowledge of the passage of the crime. CB reportedly had " a horrible job to do in Luz" and also seems to have come into a substantial sum of money in the weeks following Madeleine's disappearance. I don't think it's enough to just convict the alleged murderer when it seems that there is at least one other co-conspirator still unpunished.
CB also minimises his own involvement when saying he "knows what happened to Madeleine".

RSBM

HCW has said on multiple occasions that they only have one suspect: CB. Why does it seem that there is at least one other co-conspirator when HCW has said the opposite?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

In my opinion, the BKA found something belonging to MM at one of his properties or Jaguar/Westfalia. Something minuscule that she perhaps had on her on the 3rd. A sort of memento, like the elastic band in her hair on the 3rd. My opinion only.

Tekno, so you think think there is physical evidence that proves a connection between CB and MM. Why wouldn’t this be enough to charge him?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Of course, but one. Not three of them!!!

Well FF is still on the case, he is quoted in this article from yesterday.

Prime suspect in Madeleine McCann's disappearance could avoid charge

Christian B is the prime suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, but a legal row may be set to scupper chances of a charge being implemented.

www.express.co.uk

 

[enquirer6]

RSBM

HCW has said on multiple occasions that they only have one suspect: CB. Why does it seem that there is at least one other co-conspirator when HCW has said the opposite?

One suspect as the murderer of Madeleine, but a co-conspiritor who might have played a role in events leading up that event?

 

[Consider Dudley]

Depends on what the photo showed I think. But imo no such photo exists anyway so thinking about what a hypothetical photo might show is thankfully unnecessary.

But if one did exist they wouldn't be trying to convict him on that evidence alone would they. They have alleged confessions. Some of us were arguing that the circumstantial evidence the prosecutors have claimed to have plus a photo would be enough to charge CB. Others think it still wouldn't be enough, because they'd still need to prove who took the photo. Personally I think HCW would swap his Eintracht Braunschweig season ticket for any evidence like that (joking, I've no idea if he's a footie fan) and if he did have it he'd rush to the judges holding it high in the air, begging for the earliest trial date.

Personally I’m fairly certain it wouldn’t be enough to guarantee a conviction and that is probably why, if such evidence exists, HCW isn’t doing what you describe because he has the luxury of time to try and strengthen his hand to ensure a successful outcome.

 

[G-Unit]

Personally I’m fairly certain it wouldn’t be enough to guarantee a conviction and that is probably why, if such evidence exists, HCW isn’t doing what you describe because he has the luxury of time to try and strengthen his hand to ensure a successful outcome.

I still think that HCW's early pronouncements were inexcusable if he didn't have the evidence to support them, which is what you seem to be suggesting.

 

[Consider Dudley]

I still think that HCW's early pronouncements were inexcusable if he didn't have the evidence to support them, which is what you seem to be suggesting.

No I’m not suggesting that, I saying exactly what I said, with no hidden meanings.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Personally I’m fairly certain it wouldn’t be enough to guarantee a conviction and that is probably why, if such evidence exists, HCW isn’t doing what you describe because he has the luxury of time to try and strengthen his hand to ensure a successful outcome.

RSBM

Or he over played his had in the beginning and no additional evidence has materialised. Equally plausible IMO.

 

[Lyall0814]

Personally I’m fairly certain it wouldn’t be enough to guarantee a conviction and that is probably why, if such evidence exists, HCW isn’t doing what you describe because he has the luxury of time to try and strengthen his hand to ensure a successful outcome.

The luxury of time? How much time? Can he go on accusing the guy of being a child murderer forever without ever charging him? I get that the man is probably a national embarrassment, he's probably a serial sex crime offender/abuser. But he's not a proven murderer. His lawyers have valid concerns about what the German state has done and is still doing. They will not let it carry on forever.

 

[Consider Dudley]

RSBM

Or he over played his had in the beginning and no additional evidence has materialised. Equally plausible IMO.

There's little point in trying to guess - I expect all will be revealed in the fullness of time, in the meanwhile some people will be content to give him the benefit of the doubt and some will prefer the more critical approach, despite not knowing exactly what's what.

 

[Consider Dudley]

The luxury of time? How much time? Can he go on accusing the guy of being a child murderer forever without ever charging him? I get that the man is probably a national embarrassment, he's probably a serial sex crime offender/abuser. But he's not a proven murderer. His lawyers have valid concerns about what the German state has done and is still doing. They will not let it carry on forever.

The fact that their main suspect is not wandering around the streets free to harm other women and children gives them the time to consolidate their case by gathering evidence to make a cast iron case against him. It's quite possible however that they may never charge him (see also John Canaan, similar situation), and then it's up to him to decide how to handle that - whether he wants to sue or go to the ECHR, or whatever.

 

[Lyall0814]

The fact that their main suspect is not wandering around the streets free to harm other women and children gives them the time to consolidate their case by gathering evidence to make a cast iron case against him. It's quite possible however that they may never charge him (see also John Canaan, similar situation), and then it's up to him to decide how to handle that - whether he wants to sue or go to the ECHR, or whatever.

Ok but Cannan wasn't being accused of being a child murderer.