Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #34

[Mex]

Yet CB wasn't one of the three questioned by OG in connection with burglaries

Who were I believe also linked by their phone activity on the night MM disappeared.

In the meantime the PJ had their sights set on EM. If memory serves, part of their reasoning resulted from his phone activity.

 

[RichardKimble]

Wasn’t CB a telephone contact of one of those questioned at that time?

If so, was it to a number other than -680? Tiago da S does kind of resemble Diego Silva.

This is one thing that is puzzling, we're led to believe CB was a burglar with convictions, yet he doesn't seemed to have stepped on the toes of the three locals back in the day, perhaps they had no prior in which case what were OG thinking of.

 

[Deleted member 268165]

Who were I believe also linked by their phone activity on the night MM disappeared.

In the meantime the PJ had their sights set on EM. If memory serves, part of their reasoning resulted from his phone activity.

Phone activity, and one of them, the OC employee, with a record of theft, and not going to work on May 3 (he worked from 16:00 to 21:00) for feeling sick but on the balcony of LuzTur building (200 meters from 5A), where he lived, at 23:00.

 

[RichardKimble]

Who were I believe also linked by their phone activity on the night MM disappeared.

In the meantime the PJ had their sights set on EM. If memory serves, part of their reasoning resulted from his phone activity.

But the 30 minute call was seemingly of little importance.

 

[Deleted member 268165]

But the 30 minute call was seemingly of little importance.

From memory, of 74,104 calls and sms from May 2, 3, and 4, PJ did their analysis with calls from 21:00 to 21:20 and from 21:45 to 22:15. "680" call was outside.

 

[RichardKimble]

Phone activity, and one of them, the OC employee, with a record of theft, and not going to work on May 3 (he worked from 16:00 to 21:00) for feeling sick but on the balcony of LuzTur building (200 meters from 5A), where he lived, at 23:00.

So it begs the question were they knowing of CB, small place like Luz, CB allegedly a thief as well.

 

[RichardKimble]

From memory, of 74,104 calls and sms from May 2, 3, and 4, PJ did their analysis with calls from 21:00 to 21:20 and from 21:45 to 22:15. "680" call was outside.

so how is the 30 minute call arrived at?

 

[Davieson]

so how is the 30 minute call arrived at?

Plodding police work and luck, I would say.
Having been given CB's name ( luck) police trawled witness statements and found someone who had CB's number on their phone (plodding and luck). They then trawled available phone records (plodding) and were able to find that the phone was used that night (luck).
Whether it is really relevant remains to be seen.

 

[Trivento]

The 3 locals investigated by OG ..
Janosch mentioned on Panorama documentary how their texts / calls seemed to coincide with Tapas visits to apartments..have always found that intriguing , although they’ve been cleared .
Was it innocent..or perhaps obtaining info for someone else ( such as CB ) , maybe the 3 didn’t even know fully what they were involved in , if they were at all ?
Could someone have borrowed one of their phones for a while that evening ?

 

[Mex]

The 3 locals investigated by OG ..
Janosch mentioned on Panorama documentary how their texts / calls seemed to coincide with Tapas visits to apartments..have always found that intriguing , although they’ve been cleared .
Was it innocent..or perhaps obtaining info for someone else ( such as CB ) , maybe the 3 didn’t even know fully what they were involved in , if they were at all ?
Could someone have borrowed one of their phones for a while that evening ?

Acquaintance with much of what has been written about the MM disappearance gives the impression that the only inhabitants of Luz at the time, were those specifically mentioned in the files. Which is of course a nonsense.

Most information is now behind paywalls but there is still a first hand account available by an Irish journalist of his family’s experience of the times on the night MM disappeared.

Their holiday accommodation was in Estrella da Luz.

My opinion is that there was much more taking place as a whole than the microcosm within which we have become used to focusing.

There was a huge ‘bigger picture’ going on out there which has largely been ignored and it has been allowed to skew perceptions beyond reasonable parameters. My opinion

Crucial Madeleine McCann case questions that remain unanswered after a decade

One of the first things people instinctively do when a toddler goes missing in a holiday resort is check all the swimming pools. Every year, several hundred kids around the world accidentally drown in swimming pools when they wander off from parents.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

 

[Davieson]

Acquaintance with much of what has been written about the MM disappearance gives the impression that the only inhabitants of Luz at the time, were those specifically mentioned in the files. Which is of course a nonsense.

Most information is now behind paywalls but there is still a first hand account available by an Irish journalist of his family’s experience of the times on the night MM disappeared.

Their holiday accommodation was in Estrella da Luz.

My opinion is that there was much more taking place as a whole than the microcosm within which we have become used to focusing.

There was a huge ‘bigger picture’ going on out there which has largely been ignored and it has been allowed to skew perceptions beyond reasonable parameters. My opinion

Crucial Madeleine McCann case questions that remain unanswered after a decade

One of the first things people instinctively do when a toddler goes missing in a holiday resort is check all the swimming pools. Every year, several hundred kids around the world accidentally drown in swimming pools when they wander off from parents.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

I would agree.
For example the experiences and observations of fellow diners at the Tapas on that and previous nights seem to have gone pretty much unreported. That may be due to many of them quitting PDL on the Saturday as their holiday ended before the media frenzy got into full swing.

 

[Trivento]

The 3 locals investigated by OG ..
Janosch mentioned on Panorama documentary how their texts / calls seemed to coincide with Tapas visits to apartments..have always found that intriguing , although they’ve been cleared .
Was it innocent..or perhaps obtaining info for someone else ( such as CB ) , maybe the 3 didn’t even know fully what they were involved in , if they were at all ?
Could someone have borrowed one of their phones for a while that evening ?

To correct my own post ..was not Janosch who mentions the timing of texts/calls in Panorama doc....it was the TV presenter talking about SY investigation.

 

[G-Unit]

I would agree.
For example the experiences and observations of fellow diners at the Tapas on that and previous nights seem to have gone pretty much unreported. That may be due to many of them quitting PDL on the Saturday as their holiday ended before the media frenzy got into full swing.

Following up with the UK holidaymakers was left to Leicestershire police. They developed a questionnaire which was filled out by 559 individuals who were known to have been staying in the resort at around the time MM disappeared. Some of them came forward anyway to give official statements. I assume the questionnaires remain with the UK police as they aren't in the PJ files.
https://library.college.police.uk/docs/npia/Strategic-debrief-operation-task-2009.pdf (page 8)

 

[Davieson]

Following up with the UK holidaymakers was left to Leicestershire police. They developed a questionnaire which was filled out by 559 individuals who were known to have been staying in the resort at around the time MM disappeared. Some of them came forward anyway to give official statements. I assume the questionnaires remain with the UK police as they aren't in the PJ files.
https://library.college.police.uk/docs/npia/Strategic-debrief-operation-task-2009.pdf (page 8)

I would agree with that.

 

[Mex]

Following up with the UK holidaymakers was left to Leicestershire police. They developed a questionnaire which was filled out by 559 individuals who were known to have been staying in the resort at around the time MM disappeared. Some of them came forward anyway to give official statements. I assume the questionnaires remain with the UK police as they aren't in the PJ files.
https://library.college.police.uk/docs/npia/Strategic-debrief-operation-task-2009.pdf (page 8)

There is nothing mysterious or even unusual about absence of material “missing” from the files as they are posted on the internet.
In the main they are still there, just they were treated with due confidentiality. Particularly those withheld at the behest of the British police, as can be seen from the second cite below.

The following may be of relevence to the discussion of whether or not CB’s name was passed from the PJ to SY.

NUIPC 201 07.0 GALGS
4 Brigada
INFORMATION
Concerning the information in Folios 293-300, I can inform you that in spite having carefully explored and analysed with minute detail, nothing useful was found of interest to the investigation. In spite of the individuals mentioned having criminal pasts linked to illegal practices of a sexual nature, no relation was detected with the disappearance of the British child, Madeleine McCann.

_________________________________________________


4692 to 4706 – Letter to the Tribunal from lawyers acting for ACPO

Letter from lawyers representing British police forces requesting that certain documentation from UK police files be withheld from the DVD for public release.

MISSING PAGES FROM THE FILES

 

[G-Unit]

There is nothing mysterious or even unusual about absence of material “missing” from the files as they are posted on the internet.
In the main they are still there, just they were treated with due confidentiality. Particularly those withheld at the behest of the British police, as can be seen from the second cite below.

The following may be of relevence to the discussion of whether or not CB’s name was passed from the PJ to SY.

NUIPC 201 07.0 GALGS
4 Brigada
INFORMATION
Concerning the information in Folios 293-300, I can inform you that in spite having carefully explored and analysed with minute detail, nothing useful was found of interest to the investigation. In spite of the individuals mentioned having criminal pasts linked to illegal practices of a sexual nature, no relation was detected with the disappearance of the British child, Madeleine McCann.

_________________________________________________


4692 to 4706 – Letter to the Tribunal from lawyers acting for ACPO

Letter from lawyers representing British police forces requesting that certain documentation from UK police files be withheld from the DVD for public release.

MISSING PAGES FROM THE FILES

It's not a question of mysteriousness, but of missing evidence. The PJ were able to build a picture of the Ocean Club on 3rd May only in so far as it's employees were concerned. As far as the holidaymakers were concerned their whereabouts are unknown. There were two late bookings at the Tapas restaurant who should still have been present leading up to 10pm, but there's no testimony available.

 

[Mex]

It's not a question of mysteriousness, but of missing evidence. The PJ were able to build a picture of the Ocean Club on 3rd May only in so far as it's employees were concerned. As far as the holidaymakers were concerned their whereabouts are unknown. There were two late bookings at the Tapas restaurant who should still have been present leading up to 10pm, but there's no testimony available.

On the British side the reason for what you think is “missing evidence” is because of representation from the British police. For which the umbrella organisation ACPO - The Association of Chief Police Officers of England, Wales and Northern Ireland submitted legal representation.

As already posted and the link provided. It is self explantory.

4692 to 4706 – Letter to the Tribunal from lawyers acting for ACPO
Letter from lawyers representing British police forces requesting that certain documentation from UK police files be withheld from the DVD for public release.

The reason for the PJ failure to question the two late bookings and many other witnesses who were present for many days later – for example the occupants of the properties in apartment block five, from where MM disappeared, witnesses using the night crèche and walking their sleeping child home from it etc – is surely a question best directed to the PJ and not innuendo directed at Leicestershire Police by your presumption, “I assume the questionnaires remain with the UK police as they aren't in the PJ files”. They remain as requested where they should be. In the official police files, not those posted on the internet to which we have access.

You are correct when you say that there is “ missing evidence”. The initial botched investigation is legendary. But it cannot be suggested that for which there is documented evidence that confidentiality was requested constitutes “missing evidence”. My opinion

 

[G-Unit]

On the British side the reason for what you think is “missing evidence” is because of representation from the British police. For which the umbrella organisation ACPO - The Association of Chief Police Officers of England, Wales and Northern Ireland submitted legal representation.

As already posted and the link provided. It is self explantory.

4692 to 4706 – Letter to the Tribunal from lawyers acting for ACPO
Letter from lawyers representing British police forces requesting that certain documentation from UK police files be withheld from the DVD for public release.

The reason for the PJ failure to question the two late bookings and many other witnesses who were present for many days later – for example the occupants of the properties in apartment block five, from where MM disappeared, witnesses using the night crèche and walking their sleeping child home from it etc – is surely a question best directed to the PJ and not innuendo directed at Leicestershire Police by your presumption, “I assume the questionnaires remain with the UK police as they aren't in the PJ files”. They remain as requested where they should be. In the official police files, not those posted on the internet to which we have access.

You are correct when you say that there is “ missing evidence”. The initial botched investigation is legendary. But it cannot be suggested that for which there is documented evidence that confidentiality was requested constitutes “missing evidence”. My opinion

As there's no evidence for the whereabouts of the questionnaires then either assumption is possible. I do, however, have some evidence that the PJ had no access to at least two of the questionnaires in October 2007.

P.J. POLICE FILES: DOCTOR KATHERINA GASPAR ALLEGED PAYNE INCIDENT

Do you have any evidence that the questionnaires are where you assume they are; in the redacted PJ files?

 

[RichardKimble]

Plodding police work and luck, I would say.
Having been given CB's name ( luck) police trawled witness statements and found someone who had CB's number on their phone (plodding and luck). They then trawled available phone records (plodding) and were able to find that the phone was used that night (luck).
Whether it is really relevant remains to be seen.

But the phone records could only have come from Portugal, sims don't hold data like that.
I suppose the relevance is it might be a part of the sum of the whole, or not has the case maybe.

 

[Davieson]

But the phone records could only have come from Portugal, sims don't hold data like that.
I suppose the relevance is it might be a part of the sum of the whole, or not has the case maybe.

The phone records are those for the PDL area collected by PJ for the few days around the 5th May 2007. There are no others.
The info about CB's number must have been obtained from a witness's phone or from a phone company if police traced the owner of every number listed as making a call over that period.