Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #34

[Deleted member 268165]

The phone records are those for the PDL area collected by PJ for the few days around the 5th May 2007. There are no others.
The info about CB's number must have been obtained from a witness's phone or from a phone company if police traced the owner of every number listed as making a call over that period.

Agree @Davieson. The phone records for days before May 5, 2007 were obtained in 5 Excel files containing data of PdL masts for May 2, 3 and 4, 2007 sent by companies Vodaphone, TMS and Optimus, In total 71,104 phone calls and sms records. PJ focused the analysis in day 3, 21:00 to 21:20 and 21:45 to 22:15. "683" calling "680" was there, but it was May 3, 19:32, outside the PJ former analysis. There was a record at 21:51, for the OC driver and suspect.

 

[Mex]

The phone records are those for the PDL area collected by PJ for the few days around the 5th May 2007. There are no others.
The info about CB's number must have been obtained from a witness's phone or from a phone company if police traced the owner of every number listed as making a call over that period.

The limitations on the information achievable from mobile phones of that era was further limited by the time scale criteria the investigators imposed.

Heri posted it exactly a few posts ago. CB's half our call took place out with the time frame being used.
I think that is the reason it wasn't looked into until Scotland Yard took a closer look when they opened the case; hence the query to Germany in 2013. But that is only my opinion, I've seen it suggested that it could have been as a result of information received after a tip off.

 

[Davieson]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was the early phone analysis not being done by UK police on behalf of PJ as they had the expertise ?

 

[RichardKimble]

So to be clear the PM collected the data but only concentrated on the times listed by Janosch, seems therefore OG did very much the same.Surely phone data as such can't be harvested some 10 or more years down the line.

 

[RichardKimble]

The phone records are those for the PDL area collected by PJ for the few days around the 5th May 2007. There are no others.
The info about CB's number must have been obtained from a witness's phone or from a phone company if police traced the owner of every number listed as making a call over that period.

The witness phone was the one they were trying to find in the appeal so that can't be it.

 

[Davieson]

The witness phone was the one they were trying to find in the appeal so that can't be it.

No, what I meant was that CB's alleged phone number could only have been obtained from someone interviewed who had his number, otherwise police wouldn't have known his number.
The identity of the person allegedly phoning CB remains unknown, as far as we're aware.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

The witness phone was the one they were trying to find in the appeal so that can't be it.

I think it’s fairly simple. CB’s name was provided by HB. The BKA start to investigate him. They check his criminal record in Portugal, find any known associates and start to understand what he was doing around the time of the abduction. From here, several people could have given them his number (I feel sure it was the number he gave to the radio group). Then, they just need to cross reference it with the 71k numbers the PJ got from the three carriers. They found a match.

While I’m not certain, I think the number was probably used more than once over those three days.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

No, what I meant was that CB's alleged phone number could only have been obtained from someone interviewed who had his number, otherwise police wouldn't have known his number.
The identity of the person allegedly phoning CB remains unknown, as far as we're aware.

This is correct, we were obviously posting at the same time.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

The limitations on the information achievable from mobile phones of that era was further limited by the time scale criteria the investigators imposed.

Heri posted it exactly a few posts ago. CB's half our call took place out with the time frame being used.
I think that is the reason it wasn't looked into until Scotland Yard took a closer look when they opened the case; hence the query to Germany in 2013. But that is only my opinion, I've seen it suggested that it could have been as a result of information received after a tip off.

I’m pretty sure the Germans started to look at CB in 2013 because his name was given to them after the McCanns appeared on the German equivalent of Crimewatch.

 

[Deleted member 268165]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was the early phone analysis not being done by UK police on behalf of PJ as they had the expertise ?

This is part of the analysis of PJ, reported February 5, 2008.

https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/OA_11V/Relatorio_de_analise%20dos_primeiros_11_volumes_Page90.jpg

https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/OA_11V/Relatorio_de_analise%20dos_primeiros_11_volumes_Page91.jpg

 

[Pixie Child]

I’m pretty sure the Germans started to look at CB in 2013 because his name was given to them after the McCanns appeared on the German equivalent of Crimewatch.

The UK Crimewatch was in Oct 2013 so he could also have been named as a suspect for the pockmarked, ugly man during that show.

Maybe NF or BP gave police the number.

 

[Mex]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was the early phone analysis not being done by UK police on behalf of PJ as they had the expertise ?

My understanding was that the suggestion for the phone dump came originally from Scotland Yard. The PJ received the data from the phone companies which was shared with SY.

That could be fantasy because I have no cites.

From the files it is apparent that PJ concentration was firmly fixed on RM et al and G and KMc et al associated with them.
I don't think they went much deeper than that.

 

[Deleted member 268165]

My understanding was that the suggestion for the phone dump came originally from Scotland Yard. The PJ received the data from the phone companies which was shared with SY.

That could be fantasy because I have no cites.

From the files it is apparent that PJ concentration was firmly fixed on RM et al and G and KMc et al associated with them.
I don't think they went much deeper than that.

I think it is an almost automatic procedure in this type of crimes for any police department, being Portuguese, Spanish, German or British, to request a dump from the phone companies for a wide area.

 

[Mex]

I’m pretty sure the Germans started to look at CB in 2013 because his name was given to them after the McCanns appeared on the German equivalent of Crimewatch.

I agree that the German appeal did lead to response. But wasn't the request to Germany from the other way. Scotland Yard made the request re CB in 2013.

 

[G-Unit]

I think it is an almost automatic procedure in this type of crimes for any police department, being Portuguese, Spanish, German or British, to request a dump from the phone companies for a wide area.

Yes, the data was requested early on in the investigation.

P.J. POLICE FILES: MOBILE PHONE ANALYSIS TAPAS TELEPHONE TRAFFIC

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I agree that the German appeal did lead to response. But wasn't the request to Germany from the other way. Scotland Yard made the request re CB in 2013.

I have seen it reported both ways. OG, I think, organised similar segments on similar shows to Crimewatch in 2013. The McCanns definitely appeared on the German version. I feel as though it’s more likely the call came in after the German show but either is possible.

Some info but not specific in the below articles.

Madeleine McCann appeal gets overwhelming response, say police

Police say Crimewatch TV special and other developments about potential suspects have propelled case in new directions

www.theguardian.com

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/madeleine-mccann-death-hanover-police-search-christian-brueckner-a9641591.html

 

[Pixie Child]

Just had a quick look at the UK Crimewatch. 2 men were seen on the balcony of 5C at 2.30pm. (Presumably police thought these were the same 2 blonde men seen outside 5A by JJ & her sister but it’s not clear who saw them in 5C.)

Relaxing at 2.30pm, a 7 hour round trip (by toll road) to Tomar, an abduction at 9.50pm is cutting it fine. CB didn’t offer Tomar as an alibi - perhaps NF is wrong about that being 3/5. Wonder how he got to Tomar, if someone drove him, maybe his mechanic to look over the Allegro.

 

[Trivento]

Just had a quick look at the UK Crimewatch. 2 men were seen on the balcony of 5C at 2.30pm. (Presumably police thought these were the same 2 blonde men seen outside 5A by JJ & her sister but it’s not clear who saw them in 5C.)

Relaxing at 2.30pm, a 7 hour round trip (by toll road) to Tomar, an abduction at 9.50pm is cutting it fine. CB didn’t offer Tomar as an alibi - perhaps NF is wrong about that being 3/5. Wonder how he got to Tomar, if someone drove him.

JJ saw the two men on balcony of 5C ,( with her sister ), talks about it in Netflix doc.
The sightings near 5A were by TS ( local girl ) , JW (tourist ) and DF ( tourist ) .

 

[Deleted member 268165]

JJ saw the two men on balcony of 5C ,( with her sister ), talks about it in Netflix doc.
The sightings near 5A were by TS ( local girl ) , JW (tourist ) and DF ( tourist ) .

DF sighting could be discarded. Who is tourist JW?

 

[Trivento]

DF sighting could be discarded. Who is tourist JW?

Believe is female British tourist Jeni , partner of PW...think was discussed several threads ago..