Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #36

[Anxala]

Help me understand something then. Are the older Italian lady and the 70-80 year old woman in her apt the same crime but MS and HB have differing recollections or, is the latter a crime that has been uncovered separately from these two witnesses?

As I recall/understand it, the two witnessess claim that they viewed footage, taken identifiably in the farmhouse, of two separate assaults. One on the '14yr old' young girl, the other on an older woman, described as in her 40s, who apparently said something (a word, a phrase, there was audio) that sounded Italian, hence her being described as an Italian woman.

They also claimed to have viewed other footage of a 70-80yr old woman being attacked, but in a different setting, a holiday apartment. Now how they can say with confidence it was a holiday apt, I don't know, but I expect it might be to do with the decor style or some such, but it was at a different location, not the farmhouse.

So 3 separate pieces of footage, 3 separate victims.

What we don't know is why the charge against CB for the 14yr old went ahead and why the BKA decided not to proceed with a charge against CB for the older 'Italian' woman's attack.

ETA. As MrJitty has suggested earlier, it could be that the witnesses' account of the latter assault was inconsistent, conflicting, contradictory, and just didn't hold enough weight to carry it forward to a charge.

 

[Okapi]

CB may have uploaded it to the Dark Web.

To charge, I think BKA would need to identify the girl, the age or the fact that it was non-consensual.

Unless the tape makes their lack of consent undeniable.

But I imagine they both came forward to BKA - part of the reason for CB’s identity to be publicised.

Sorry for yet again confusing things, but the link I posted earlier mentioned tapes. Unless this was an error on the part of that media company.

‘The prosecution has relied heavily on the testimony of witnesses MS and HB, who stole a video camera and tapes from Brueckner's house in southern Portugal in 2006. The tapes included images of Brueckner molesting two other women, according to prosecutors.

Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner charged with five new counts of rape and sexual abuse

German prosecutors still haven't charged Christian Brueckner in the British toddler's abduction, but the investigation is helping them solve other crimes.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[sandy_80]

Sometimes victims of crime are unable to ask for justice, it doesn’t mean they are not victims.

in case of sexual abuse.. id say most times ..most sexual crimes goes undetected cause its still a stigma
something you have to prove most of the times

 

[Tekno]

Bits in bold

Critically they didn't see the same things on the tape.

I think this will come down to a likely novel legal point. Because they were sucessful in the trial relating to the elderly American, they now throw these 2 in because the same logic should apply about the veracity of the witness testimony, despite unknown victims.

The problem is, in that case, they had other corroboration, whereas in the 2 'video cases' they apparently have none. I think it will come down to a mostly intellectual question for the Court as to whether that is enough proof.

Although I think in general their evidence is to be accepted, how much can specific the details be trusted? In their evidence they appear not to have see the same rapes on the tape. But we can corroborate one of the witnesses about one of the rapes. But can we verify what they disagree on? Did they each not watch everything?

A lot will depend on testimony there.

‘Critically they didn't see the same things on the tape’.

Given that there is a 20-year age difference between the two witnesses, it could be that one’s memory if failing him. IMO.

 

[Tekno]

‘Critically they didn't see the same things on the tape’.

Given that there is a 20-year age difference between the two witnesses, it could be that one’s memory if failing him. IMO.

*is

 

[Tekno]

CB may have uploaded it to the Dark Web.

To charge, I think BKA would need to identify the girl, the age or the fact that it was non-consensual.

Unless the tape makes their lack of consent undeniable.

But I imagine they both came forward to BKA - part of the reason for CB’s identity to be publicised.

The girl could be Lina W, in my opinion. One of NF’s foster children.

 

[Lilly b]

The girl could be Lina W, in my opinion. One of NF’s foster children.

Yes, I think it is her or another child that nf was looking after, I have no idea though, how long nf did this, and how many children she supposed to if looked after.

 

[Davieson]

The girl could be Lina W, in my opinion. One of NF’s foster children.

Do you think this possibility won't have been investigated ?

 

[Lilly b]

Do you think this possibility won't have been investigated ?

It could only be investigated if that person reports to the police, and if it was someone that nf was looking after, she wouldn't of wanted it reporting Incase it ruined her set up, they would of stopped her looking after these kids. God only knows what went on in that villa

 

[Davieson]

It could only be investigated if that person reports to the police, and if it was someone that nf was looking after, she wouldn't of wanted it reporting Incase it ruined her set up, they would of stopped her looking after these kids. God only knows what went on in that villa

Police are usually free to investigate whatever they wish, particularly as in this case the young girl was reported to be of German nationality.

 

[Consider Dudley]

If you follow the sequence of posts you’ll see that I’ve been very clear about that. I haven’t said that they are not victims, simply that we don’t know that they are because they haven’t come forward.

Five crimes have been established as having occurred according to the Germans, therefore by my calculations that equals five possible or probable victims of a crime, regardless of whether or not they have all come forward. I don’t therefore understand what point you are making unless it’s that the testimony of the two convicted criminals (who helped put CB away for another rape) have either misinterpreted the videos of rape they claim to have seen, or that they point blank invented them. We know that one of their previous claims was supported by forensic evidence and found to be true by the court, and this appears to lend credibility to their other claims at least as far as the BKA are concerned, or so it would seem.

 

[Tekno]

Do you think this possibility won't have been investigated ?

I think it had been investigated and that Lina W is probably a key witness. IMO.

 

[Mex]

Please try to follow the argument and not confuse it. If you follow this exchange of posts, you originally stated tat there were “victims of five seperate crimes awaiting justice”.

As two of these victims are unidentified and we have no understanding of whether they even believe a crime has been committed, how can you say they are awaiting justice?

Beyond this, the only evidence there is that any offence occurred in these two cases comes from witness statements of two convicted criminals.

Currently, there are no outstanding charges against CB - they have been thrown out. If the charges go to court then we will see if CB is convicted for these two rape cases. In any event, we can be certain that your original statement that victims in five seperate cases are awaiting justice is incorrect, two of the victims haven’t even asked for justice.

You have the advantage of me if you were having an argument, I’m afraid. Because I was having a non patronising discussion.

Suffice to say that CB was indicted five times for five separate crimes. That could not have happened had there not been evidence supporting all five indictments. That is not opinion, that is fact.

It is also a fact by your own admission that you know nothing about two of the victims of crime, not even their names. Which gives my opinion on the circumstances of how they came to be on the charge sheet against CB a bit of weight.
I think a valid question to ask is if you can come up with an explanation of why FF allowed that to happen without complaint?

 

[Mex]

The first two paragraphs make the same point I made.

The third paragraph is irrelevant so far as the Salema Beach attack.

It’s hard to understand what point you are trying to make with this post.

I said
"I think it is perfectly possible that the evidence given to the police by CB's criminal friends has been validated if it was used in the charges made against him for aggravated rape."

Do you really not understand? Or are you being mischievous?

 

[Dave55]

I recall more than one person recalling they've seen UFO's, doesn't make it so.

Okay, easiest way to explain is to list the alleged crimes:

1. Rape of a young German woman at the farmhouse between 2000 and 2006;
2. Rape of an older Italian woman (although there are some reports this woman was British), again at the farmhouse between 2000 and 2006 - this and the prior crime are the ones witnessed by HB and MS on the camcorder;
3. Rape of Hazel B at Praia da Rocha at her apartment in 2004;
4. Salema beach attack of the ten year-old girl in 2007;
5. Public exposure at the playground in 2017.

IMO, if there is physical evidence linking him to the Hazel B case (it’s been “leaked”/reported that they have a partial palm print) this is a strong case.

The beach and playground crimes are, while repulsive, comparatively less serious offences.

The rapes in 1, and 2, you would imagine would be very difficult to obtain a conviction - there is no video and no known victims.

Given the no doubt exhaustive investigation, I am sure the BKA was hopeful for its agenda to find more crimes to link CB to.

ETA: we have no idea how old the woman was in 1 and we don’t have any way of validating it other than the statements of HB and MS.

Could it be they have victim testimony on record with near enough the exact MO as the DM and HB rapes. The informants have no idea of the statements given by the victim.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

It's something to chew over , the case has been going in fits and starts with bursts of energy since OG went into full mode in 2013.First the revelation moment Tannerman was almost certainly not an abductor, the digs and plethora of interviewees in 2014 including arguidos.This led no where.2017 the ten year anniversary of the disappearance and subsequent appeals in Europe.
2020 we're told a prime suspect has emerged after OG were given CBs name after the 2017 appeal.Investigation continue although we're told you'd think him guilty if you knew what we knew and 100% convinced CB killed the girl ,yet not a charge in sight with the it being said it'll be some time yet.
It seems that no investigation brought any suspicion upon CB save for an informant , it could be said that it is because there is no direct link between the suspect and victim which is hes either very clever, lucky or had no part in the disappearance .JMO

ETA ,with one rape conviction, offences against minors ,5 charges pending including rape and offences against minors, lucky or clever doesn't cover it so does it leave the third option above?

Honestly, after all we already know about CB, also the context, appeal, investigations, etc, do you really think he had no part in the disappearance?

IMO I really can't see why BKA take this case on for all this time, money and resources unless they weren't convinced he was guilty and they could prove it.
In fact I thought it didn't take that long to get the final proof and charge him inequivocally but...

It’s not just about charging him – we want to charge him with the best body of evidence possible.
When we still have questions, it would be nonsense to charge rather than wait for the answers that could strengthen our position.

 

[Mex]

I'm a little more struck by the witnesses' account of the elderly woman in her 70s/80s who was so brutally attacked in her holiday apt. If this is true, it must have been an absolutely terrifying experience for her. She must have suffered some trauma afterwards. Would she not have told anyone about it, a family member, a friend, a neighbour? Who in turn would have reported it to the police?

I accept of course that many assault/rape cases sadly go unreported for many complex and justifiable reasons but still, bearing in mind her age, I find it a bit of a puzzle.

DM reported her rape to the Portuguese police. She was interviewed by BKA - who went to the USA to do so as she was not able to travel to Germany for CB's trial.

 

[Anxala]

DM reported her rape to the Portuguese police. She was interviewed by BKA - who went to the USA to do so as she was not able to travel to Germany for CB's trial.

This is not that case. You're talking about the rape case of the American woman he's currently serving a sentence for.

This is a new charge. A different woman. An unknown woman attacked on an unknown date.

 

[Lilly b]

Police are usually free to investigate whatever they wish, particularly as in this case the young girl was reported to be of German nationality.

But the question was
Do you think this possibility won't have been investigated ?

So we are referring, at the time, not the present

 

[Mex]

This is not that case. You're talking about the rape case of the American woman he's currently serving a sentence for.

This is a new charge. A different woman. An unknown woman attacked on an unknown date.

Thank you Anxala. I should have expanded my post to include my opinion that just as DM's case was on file corroborating what the witnesses had viewed on the tape, the anonymous rapes may be in police files also.