Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #36

[RichardKimble]

I think the rape cases will establish an MO....almost a signature..and this is what Wolters is working towards.

Its uncertain what is happening with the cases, it could therefore be taken out of Wolters hands and no " signature" will emerge, I somehow doubt the MM case is dependent on the possible outcome of the alleged rapes.

 

[Mex]

Its uncertain what is happening with the cases, it could therefore be taken out of Wolters hands and no " signature" will emerge, I somehow doubt the MM case is dependent on the possible outcome of the alleged rapes.

I agree that the case being made to prosecute CB for MM's murder is not dependent on other cases.

Each case is stand alone inherent in the interests of justice.

We know MM investigators are still very much involved in continuing the search for evidence.

 

[RichardKimble]

“Was CB in the area a number used by him was ,so unless the caller or was it recipient qualifies it by saying it was CB they were talking to then he can't be placed there”.

IMO he can be placed there by different forms of evidence. Although early in the season there will have been a mild level of tourist footfall, therefore a lot of holiday photos in circulation. IMO it’s probable that a tourist photo or video exists with CB in the background. The German’s no longer appear (publicly) too focussed on appealing for the caller. Perhaps they’ve confirmed his presence at the scene in other ways. Obviously there are other indications he was very much in the area. Including cell site triangulation, Carole Tramner claiming she spotted CB that afternoon, CB telling people he was near the OC & the material evidence he murdered MM. But IMO, other than forensics or CCTV, pictures or videos of him in the area would be the next strongest piece of evidence.

But how reliable are witness some 13 to 16 yrs after the fact, I've likened it to the Lamplugh case before it that it was alleged SJL and a man resembling JC were seen leaving a house, the CPS said that neither the suspect nor victim could be placed together so the witness statement was not of a standard?


What material evidence exists that CB killed MM if indeed he did that places him around 5a?

The cell phone triangulation only places a phone there, there as to be corroborating evidence he was .

JMO.

 

[Mex]

But how reliable are witness some 13 to 16 yrs after the fact, I've likened it to the Lamplugh case before it that it was alleged SJL and a man resembling JC were seen leaving a house, the CPS said that neither the suspect nor victim could be placed together so the witness statement was not of a standard?


What material evidence exists that CB killed MM if indeed he did that places him around 5a?

The cell phone triangulation only places a phone there, there as to be corroborating evidence he was .

JMO.

I think until there is a court case we won’t have any idea of who the witnesses are or what their evidence will be.

 

[Davieson]

I think until there is a court case we won’t have any idea of who the witnesses are or what their evidence will be.

I agree, so all the speculation seems rather pointless.

 

[Dave55]

The thing i don't understand about this 'signature' theory is you don't need to prosecute entire cases to get evidence in a different murder case. You just bring all the evidence in your murder case or bring all the charges together.

Wolters has said he wants to prosecute with the best possible evidence....and he will only have one chance.....perhaps he wants to ensure the signature is established first

 

[Deleted member 268165]

Wolters has said he wants to prosecute with the best possible evidence....and he will only have one chance.....perhaps he wants to ensure the signature is established first

"Signature" is futile for HCW. He needs evidence/proof.

 

[Dave55]

"Signature" is futile for HCW. He needs evidence/proof.

I tyhink thats quite shortsighted. You may think its futile on its own but it needs to be judged with all the other evidence which you nor I are privy too.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

Certainly I’m not and I don’t think you are career criminals so we cannot be expected to act the same way as CB. We don’t know what game he is playing in this unusual situation.

One small thing that I did find quite telling were MWT’s comments after he interviewed HCW. He said a couple of times that HCW “hates” CB, that this was very clear. This seems to be an unusual way to describe the view of a prosecutor. We have no idea of the prior relationship between CB and HCW and perhaps other prosecutors. If it’s bad, who knows how CB would react.

Play games?! I can understand it as tactical behaviors on both sides but we are not in a schoolyard...I hate you, you hate me...
CB was accused of murdering a child! All world's eyes on him. If he is innocent couldn't he "easily" inform police or put a statement through his lawyer about his name being unfairly dragged through the mud when he was innocent and could prove it.
But no, according to his lawyer you could order "a holy drink in hell" before CB would cooperate with the prosecutors.

On HCW side, I even can't imagine what he and BKA probably felt when they saw all those photos and chats, texts, his "belongings", testimonies about his depraved world and his sexual crimes during the investigation. And how he may has been escaping and avoiding being caught. They are humans too. JMO

 

[Deleted member 268165]

Play games?! I can understand it as tactical behaviors on both sides but we are not in a schoolyard...I hate you, you hate me...
CB was accused of murdering a child! All world's eyes on him. If he is innocent couldn't he "easily" inform police or put a statement through his lawyer about his name being unfairly dragged through the mud when he was innocent and could prove it.
But no, according to his lawyer you could order "a holy drink in hell" before CB would cooperate with the prosecutors.

On HCW side, I even can't imagine what he and BKA probably felt when they saw all those photos and chats, texts, his "belongings", testimonies about his depraved world and his sexual crimes during the investigation. And how he may has been escaping and avoiding being caught. They are humans too. JMO

IMO HCW/BKA give too much weight to "profiling / modus operandi / signature ..." .

 

[Mex]

I tyhink thats quite shortsighted. You may think its futile on its own but it needs to be judged with all the other evidence which you nor I are privy too.

It is a difficult one but I think a signature would only be an indication that he might have, but that wouldn't be proof that he did.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

IMO HCW/BKA give too much weight to "profiling / modus operandi / signature ..." .

Not sure if too much but again IMO, they may have a photo (pre-torture or pre-destruction of the body), texts, chats that are corroborated by "autonomous" testimonies.
We don’t have the body and no parts of the body, but we have....

They want the body but without it and no other piece of evidence maybe they are trying to extract as much as possible from MO of other cases and eventually identify a common link/piece to what they have.

 

[Consider Dudley]

I agree, so all the speculation seems rather pointless.

A point I also made earlier today

 

[RichardKimble]

I think until there is a court case we won’t have any idea of who the witnesses are or what their evidence will be.

I think there is an unless to be factored in there as well.

 

[Pixie Child]

IMO HCW/BKA give too much weight to "profiling / modus operandi / signature ..." .

Could you explain which "signature" you see? Thanks.

The ‘signature’ is production of hurtcore film clips, sometimes breaking & entering but also with females who might have gone willingly to his home.

The ‘signature’ will be important to the forensic psychiatrist and will inform BKA searches IRL and online.

They are searching for whips, chains, knives (DNA). Any such item detectable by ground radar could lead them to a USB.

It will guide their questions to his contacts - CB may be most open with those who share this fetish.

 

[Mex]

Not sure if too much but again IMO, they may have a photo (pre-torture or pre-destruction of the body), texts, chats that are corroborated by "autonomous" testimonies.
We don’t have the body and no parts of the body, but we have....

They want the body but without it and no other piece of evidence maybe they are trying to extract as much as possible from MO of other cases and eventually identify a common link/piece to what they have.

I can't begin to comprehend the amount of time and effort it must have taken to keep MM's case well to the fore in all of this.
It would have been understandable if they had walked away from it just on the apparent impossibility.

If CB is the perpetrator this must have been the last outcome he could have anticipated given that he is so forensically aware. But I don't think anyone could have anticipated the advances which have been made in the science since 2007 ~ or even 2013 when he might have embarked on a clean up of evidence.

I'm with Janosch on this one who reminded us that the identity of DM's rapist was categorically established by a single hair years after the crime was committed.

That wasn't by chance. That was excellent detective work of the same kind of kind now concentrating on finding the solution as to what happened to MM.

 

[Lilly b]

They seem to have just one witness who used the -680 number to call him. (Could be the girlfriend he told about the horrible job.) It’s possible that BP will confirm that CB still had the phone in his possession on 3/5.

Nothing against mwt but I don't think he has any more information than we do to be fair, he can't possibly know all the info that wolters has

 

[Lilly b]

That’s a very good question. HB and DM seem similar but everything else is random IMO.

But all the stuff found on his usb , I'm sure they can get a signature of his ways and more

 

[Monic]

Maby HB did see a video with CB and MMC, and on the video he did see maby a lake or??? Maby CB told him what he did and where he did it etc.

And maby HB told the police soms details, only soms people can know??

 

[frank-cole]

But how reliable are witness some 13 to 16 yrs after the fact, I've likened it to the Lamplugh case before it that it was alleged SJL and a man resembling JC were seen leaving a house, the CPS said that neither the suspect nor victim could be placed together so the witness statement was not of a standard?


What material evidence exists that CB killed MM if indeed he did that places him around 5a?

The cell phone triangulation only places a phone there, there as to be corroborating evidence he was .

JMO.

But how reliable are witness some 13 to 16 yrs after the fact, I've likened it to the Lamplugh case before it that it was alleged SJL and a man resembling JC were seen leaving a house, the CPS said that neither the suspect nor victim could be placed together so the witness statement was not of a standard?


What material evidence exists that CB killed MM if indeed he did that places him around 5a?

The cell phone triangulation only places a phone there, there as to be corroborating evidence he was .

JMO.

Good points. IMO the key material evidence will likely be digital & will be photo(s) of MM deceased without CB in the picture (tragic to say).
One thing I’ve picked up about CB is his habits/behaviours, especially when he’s excited & when he’s stressed. He reacts in unusual ways IMO.
He likes to draw, write, type, brag & take photos of the abuse he causes. I think the most incriminating evidence will be a combination of those things & will include photo(s). JMO

IMO it’s a certainty that CB was with his phone that night using that number. It doesn’t surprise me that the man who confessed to a friend was seen in the area, told people he was in the area and his telephone was used in the area. Although such information convinces me I’m sceptical it’ll be enough for a German court. For example - I reflect on things that I’ve seen on social media threads. There is always a counter argument for any damning information or fact that arises about CB. Sometimes these counter arguments are irrational (on other SM threads) but on WS it’s almost always a very well explained meaningful point. Perhaps individual biases change the way some may perceive the information & therefore perhaps I’m overly confident on the open-source information being very damning for CB.

IMO there are a few other ways & better ways to corroborate his presence in the area, such as tourist photos & videos. IMO that would be the final piece to get this to a charge (but only after the other 5 have concluded). I think there’s a good chance they have ‘that evidence’ now. I think that line between material evidence & abduction has become far more clear & straightforward. The threshold for a non forensic murder case must be high but I do have confidence based on the open-source alone. JMO