Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #36

[onemoremiletogo]

It’s okay if we have different views.

IMO, it’s obvious CB’s legal team are advising him not to talk to the prosecutors until they charge him.

CB has been moved to a higher security (German Alcatraz if you believe tabloid nonsense) prison and is in solitary confinement, apparently for 23 hours a day.

It also seems likely that there is a mutual dislike between CB and the prosecution team.

Given these three points, I stand by my statement that it’s understandable that he taunts the prosecutors in the media.

Let’s be honest, the prosecutors have taunted him in the media by accusing him of child murder and not charging him for it.

Please answer why it is reasonable for the prosecutors to do that and for CB not to respond?

IMO it seems that you are still seeing all this as play (juvenile) games but literally, "give and take". I'm out.

 

[Lyall0814]

Your explanation sounds a bit Kafkaesque there, Mex. Since there's seems to be no intention/no requirement to ever admit point 1 in your list is true.

 

[Mex]

Disagree & I can’t relate. The hostility towards HCW seems unnecessary. Typically, the hostility rises depending on whether his statements contradict a persons theory. It’s important to realise that he’s not a rogue prosecutor & a 1 man investigative team. In reality he’s speaking on behalf of a major investigation. I’m glad all LEA’s are working together & are making efforts to search for Madeleine. I think the searches are a good thing, it shows progression. JMO

I find the personal attacks on HCW unedifying.

To me criticism is centred not on his job and how good or not he is at that but on poor understanding of German legal protocols and even more poorly understood tabloid interpretations of events.

Like you I welcome the fact that after all the years three police forces are trying to unravel the mystery of what happened to MM.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

IMO it seems that you are still seeing all this as play (juvenile) games but literally, "give and take". I'm out.

That’s up to you.

Objectively, anyone reading my post would find it respectful and genuine. I just see the situation differently to you.

 

[Mex]

Very difficult I think to provide an alibi when you don't know precisely what it is they think you've done. Eventually - after all the posturing and teasing on TV and in the papers - they can only accuse you of doing what they think they can prove. But until they do actually accuse you of something definite you won't have any idea what time/location you need to provide an alibi for.

(Providing an alibi for the evening of May 3rd is no use at all if they have no intention of charging him with abduction anyway. If they can't prove he did that they can't charge him with it. HCW has rarely - if ever? - talked about abduction/kidnapping? He only mentions murder)

I agree it isn't feasible to expect one to produce an alibi unless one knows the time and date for which it is required.

But exactly when did the alibi first come into the equation?

Didn't CB volunteer one which is not mentioned much at all now since there were no takers to back him up.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

Very difficult I think to provide an alibi when you don't know precisely what it is they think you've done. Eventually - after all the posturing and teasing on TV and in the papers - they can only accuse you of doing what they think they can prove. But until they do actually accuse you of something definite you won't have any idea what time/location you need to provide an alibi for.

(Providing an alibi for the evening of May 3rd is no use at all if they have no intention of charging him with abduction anyway. If they can't prove he did that they can't charge him with it. HCW has rarely - if ever? - talked about abduction/kidnapping? He only mentions murder)

Again, the legal standpoint, yes, already extensively debated.
In any case, I'm not sure if there weren't poor tentative alibis through MWT doc.

Just to "close" this topic, if CB is innocent, he could nip the speculation by clarifying or providing a justification for his whereabouts on the 3rd. It was national-world news, his phone was pinged in the town that night. If he didn't do it he would have at least have thought about where he was around that time given his proximity to the area, so he would still be able to recount now where he was when this happened.

And, of course, I believe that BKA has also tried the counter-check but: We found nobody who gives Christian B an alibi.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Again, the legal standpoint, yes, already extensively debated.
In any case, I'm not sure if there weren't tentative alibis through MWT doc.

Just to "close" this topic, if CB is innocent, he could nip the speculation by clarifying or providing a justification for his whereabouts on the 3rd. It was national-world news, his phone was pinged in the town that night. If he didn't do it he would have at least have thought about where he was around that time given his proximity to the area, so he would still be able to recount now where he was when this happened.

And, of course, I believe that BKA has also tried the counter-check but: We found nobody who gives Christian B an alibi.

BBM, given CB’s position, this is critical and cannot be dismissed by what lay people think.

 

[Lyall0814]

I agree it isn't feasible to expect one to produce an alibi unless one knows the time and date for which it is required.

But exactly when did the alibi first come into the equation?

Didn't CB volunteer one which is not mentioned much at all now since there were no takers to back him up.

In the MWT Channel 5 prog? I need to watch that again. Memory of it is hazy!

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I agree it isn't feasible to expect one to produce an alibi unless one knows the time and date for which it is required.

But exactly when did the alibi first come into the equation?

Didn't CB volunteer one which is not mentioned much at all now since there were no takers to back him up.

Neither CB nor FF have provided an alibi, only a very definite position that there will be no discussion without charges. <modsnip - personalizing> please provide a source with direct quotes from CB or FF.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

In the MWT Channel 5 prog? I need to watch that again. Memory of it is hazy!

MWT is a drama writer and sometimes his investigative work slips into this category. There is talk of an alibi on the show, ALE, but nothing to say what CB is claiming.

 

[Lyall0814]

MWT is a drama writer and sometimes his investigative work slips into this category. There is talk of an alibi on the show, ALE, but nothing to say what CB is claiming.

At least he offered some scepticism. Absolutely everyone agreeing with each other in the papers, on 24 hour news channels and in the TV docs is not a healthy situation imo. Especially when - as we know - the situation is very obviously nowhere near as straightforward as they declared it to be on June 4 2020. To say the least.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

At least he offered some scepticism. Absolutely everyone agreeing with each other in the papers, on 24 hour news channels and in the TV docs is not a healthy situation imo. Especially when - as we know - the situation is very obviously nowhere near as straightforward as they declared it to be on June 4 2020. To say the least.

No, it’s obvious from the statements HCW made shortly after the appeal, that they were not intending on another three years of investigation. There is a line of thinking that this is about thoroughness or putting together the strongest evidence. I don’t buy this.

If what is alleged is true, the MM case is the most severe crime and it is unquestionably a high-profile crime. Solving this crime was the objective from the outset. Despite the strong initial statements, the case doesn’t seem to have progressed, therefore, logically, the evidence is incomplete.

 

[Mex]

Neither CB nor FF have provided an alibi, only a very definite position that there will be no discussion without charges. <modsnip> please provide a source with direct quotes from CB or FF.

<modsnip>

I don't think CB is allowed prison visits from documentary makers with camera.

 

[Okapi]

Well, he may not have jam, but there’s no shortage of art materials for CB in prison.

 

[Okapi]

It’s okay if we have different views.

IMO, it’s obvious CB’s legal team are advising him not to talk to the prosecutors until they charge him.

CB has been moved to a higher security (German Alcatraz if you believe tabloid nonsense) prison and is in solitary confinement, apparently for 23 hours a day.

It also seems likely that there is a mutual dislike between CB and the prosecution team.

Given these three points, I stand by my statement that it’s understandable that he taunts the prosecutors in the media.

Let’s be honest, the prosecutors have taunted him in the media by accusing him of child murder and not charging him for it.

Please answer why it is reasonable for the prosecutors to do that and for CB not to respond?

To be fair, Denis, is this an objective statement? One man’s ‘taunted’ is another person’s ‘public appeal.’ But maybe I am missing something?

 

[RichardKimble]

To be fair, Denis, is this an objective statement? One man’s ‘taunted’ is another person’s ‘public appeal.’ But maybe I am missing something?

It is an interesting point though, have the German prosecutors met CB or his legal team face to face to tell them he is the focus of the investigation rather than let it run through the media. Isn't CB entitled to anonymity under German law until charged , what happened to that?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

To be fair, Denis, is this an objective statement? One man’s ‘taunted’ is another person’s ‘public appeal.’ But maybe I am missing something?

Okapi, my view is that the public appeal was formal request from the BKA to the public requesting assistance in an investigation. CB wasn’t named nor was he accused of anything. I don’t have any issue with that and I don’t think anyone else would.

Taunting was the word used by @onemoremiletogo so I just ran with it for common understanding. Nevertheless, using weasel words, innuendo and personal statements, HCW has said CB murdered and possibly abused MM. I see no reason for him to do this, unless he is perhaps trying to obtain a reaction from CB. While this may be incorrect, I can’t see why the prosecutor has thrown around accusations in the tabloid press.

Given that HCW has done this, why is it wrong for CB to respond via unofficial channels? He hasn’t been given the opportunity to do so officially.

So IMO, the public appeal is not taunting, some other messages in the press possibly qualify.

 

[Consider Dudley]

CB knows that there is an investigation under way into him. This is not limited to MM or the five crimes he was charged for - it’s for anything they can connect to him.

In this scenario, why people think he should waive his legal rights and protection is beyond me. It’s been explicitly stated (I agree with somewhat dramatic effect) by his highly qualified lawyer. Obviously, very obviously, they need to have the exact allegations detailed for specific charged crimes so that they can respond accordingly or CB risks incriminating himself for other potential crimes.

I don’t think it matters how many times or how many explanations are provided, someone people expect CB and his legal team to intentionally harm their own case - it’s crazy IMO.

so why no criticism of CB when he attempted to provide one (unsuccessfully)? Was he intent on harming his own case when he did so? Was it crazy? But no, not a word said against this.

 

[Consider Dudley]

MWT is a drama writer and sometimes his investigative work slips into this category. There is talk of an alibi on the show, ALE, but nothing to say what CB is claiming.

CB has had ample opportunity to write 12 page long letters to any newspaper of his choosing refuting the “drama writing” of MWT but to the best of my knowledge he has not done so. Strange that.

 

[Deleted member 268165]

We found nobody who gives Christian B an alibi.

And, although police and media pressure, it seems nobody who can show evidence CB did it. IMO.