Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #4

[Armchair_Defective]

BBM

I agree it is possible the Tanner sighting was Madeleine.

But I personally believe the Tanner sighting was the man who came forward.

The reason for this is because surely the first thing he would say to police is that he was carrying his daughter, but he wasn't carrying her the way the sketch depicts? So this man must have carried his daughter in that way that night. Otherwise he would have told the officer that he didn't.

So unless we have this man and the abductor, BOTH carrying a child in the same manner around the same time, then he must have been the man Tanner saw.

Also in his reconstruction he wore the clothes he had on that night and the are extremely similar.

I firmly think the Tanner sighting is the innocent father.

I think the Smith sighting is the abducter.

MOO

According to Scotland Yard the child was not Madeleine. So unless people think SY made a huge blunder.....not likely.

 

[JediJim]

The attempted abduction of a child before MM in her home should have made bigger news surely? How many child abductees operated in Praia da Luz? Or was this coincidence?
Apologies, I’m assuming the attempted abduction of the child from her home was in the same resort?..

 

[JediJim]

Two things;
Firstly has the Tanner sighting being disregarded as the abducter, if so why?

Secondly, the Smith sighting, how credible was he? Remember he reported to Leicestershire Police that he was 60-80 per cent sure that it was Gerry McCann carrying the child? Which was impossible as Gerry was at the ocean club eating.

I don’t think either sighting helps the investigation. Out of the two, I’d be more inclined to think that the Tannerman sighting would be more plausible.

 

[Dlk79]

Why did Madeleine McCann cops waste years investigating GP sighting?

Sorry the source is the Sun, but think the article may be useful to the people who aren't familiar with the whole Tanner man coming forward. Read the full article as it mentions at the bottom why some people doubt it was him. It's to do with where the creche was in relation to his apartment.

 

[tedtink]

Two things;
Firstly has the Tanner sighting being disregarded as the abducter, if so why?

Secondly, the Smith sighting, how credible was he? Remember he reported to Leicestershire Police that he was 60-80 per cent sure that it was Gerry McCann carrying the child? Which was impossible as Gerry was at the ocean club eating.

I don’t think either sighting helps the investigation. Out of the two, I’d be more inclined to think that the Tannerman sighting would be more plausible.

The Irishmen only said it looked like GM after he saw GM walking down the steps of the plane on the way home from Portugal and after the they had been made Arguido's and all the horrific reports in the UK media that they were to blame - Like I said earlier our brains like to deceive us and we can make up narratives in our own heads to fit what we MAY believe - It could not have been GM - that's just absurd/impossible as he was at the Tapas bar.

 

[Wowno17]

According to Scotland Yard the child was not Madeleine. So unless people think SY made a huge blunder.....not likely.

That's my point. I agree with Scotland Yard.

MOO

 

[Victoria Chambers]

I agree regarding the accomplice. I still keep having doubts about the guy who came forward 6 years later to say he was probably the Tanner sighting. Read something about him saying he'd have been going the other direction.

The way the child was being carried was odd. A parent doesn't carry a sleeping child that way. If it was MM, the other odd thing is her head was on the wrong side if someone had just lifted her out of her bed as she was laying. It could be possible that someone passed her through the window to someone else which then reverses the way she is laying. Just a theory.

The way the child was positioned is exactly how my child looks when I remove her from my bed back into her own bed. Just slide both arms in, under her back and bottom, and lift. She ends up in an almost sitting position. But this is the best way, as not to disturb her. The creche man doesn't sit right with me because, for 1, if I cared for children at a creche, I would see to it that she was properly dressed for leaving so late, with a coat on and whatnot. Besides, who sends children to creche wearing pyjamas anyway? As a parent, I would have woken my child to put on her jacket, had she not already been wearing it. The Tannerman held the child in a position like she had been lifted, undisturbed from her bed! X

 

[Armchair_Defective]

Two things;
Firstly has the Tanner sighting being disregarded as the abducter, if so why?

Secondly, the Smith sighting, how credible was he? Remember he reported to Leicestershire Police that he was 60-80 per cent sure that it was Gerry McCann carrying the child? Which was impossible as Gerry was at the ocean club eating.

I don’t think either sighting helps the investigation. Out of the two, I’d be more inclined to think that the Tannerman sighting would be more plausible.

Yes the Tanner sighting was ruled out in 2013, completely.

'The main suspect in the case was previously a man seen by Jane Tanner, one of the McCanns’ friends, carrying a child close to their apartment in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz at around9.15pm on May 3, 2007.

But after successfully tracking down the man, detectives from Scotland Yard have eliminated him from the inquiry, establishing that he was a father carrying his child home from an evening crèche.'

It means that Madeleine could have been taken as late as 10pm, moments before Kate McCann checked on her three-year-old daughter and realised she was missing.

The focus of the investigation has switched to a previous suspect who was seen carrying a child around Madeleine’s age towards the beach just before 10pm."

Madeleine McCann: New reconstruction reveals abduction was later than previously thought

Gerry McCann was not necessarily eating at 10 when the Smiths say they saw their man. There is more than one statement by staff who didn't see various people at the tables at certain times. Some of the staff were not sure which men out of the group were there and not at various times.

 

[Pisces Cloud]

The Irishmen only said it looked like GM after he saw GM walking down the steps of the plane on the way home from Portugal and after the they had been made Arguido's and all the horrific reports in the UK media that they were to blame - Like I said earlier our brains like to deceive us and we can make up narratives in our own heads to fit what we MAY believe - It could not have been GM - that's just absurd/impossible as he was at the Tapas bar.

Agreed. The other E-fit from the Smith family looked nothing like Gerry and so I do think Mr Smith was influenced by the media and probably internet stories that were floating around too.

 

[Busyliz]

Does anyone know what the outcome was of the deciphering of a message from Cheltenham gchq? Which referred to a little blonde girl and a German man in Arabic on 4/6/07
I read about it in Danny Colin’s book but can’t recall seeing anything about it in pj files.
Apologies if this has been covered before.

 

[tedtink]

That's my point. I agree with Scotland Yard.

MOO

However, the sightings of the 2 men watching the apartments days before. JJ sighting.

" I told them (PJ) they were blond and one had curly hair. One was stockier than the other and they had obviously just opened the gate and walked up to the balcony"

Daily Mail Dec 2007

 

[Armchair_Defective]

relevant to 'smithman' from restaurant staff statements;

P.J. POLICE FILES: TAPAS BAR EMPLOYEES STATEMENTS

' STARIKOVA VITORINO (Russian citizen, with the telephone No "96635 ####) - kitchen assistant:
- Said that, yesterday, one individual, purportedly the father of the missing, left the dinner table where a group of friends (in number 8 or 9), for about 30 minutes. After having returned, a woman whom she believed to be his wife, also left the table, there having passed a few moments, all the guests left the table in question, except one elderly lady, who told her [Svetlana's] colleagues that that child had disappeared.

JOAQUIM JOSE MOREIRA BATISTA (residing at Rua Ilha Terceira, no. 15, Lagos, Telephone No 91 277 ####) - table employee [waiter].
- Of the group of 8/9 British citizens who dined at the restaurant last night, as usual, of which the parents of missing were part (he didn't know them) he noticed that two individuals left the table, of the male gender.
- The first to leave was about 40/45 years old (tall, skinny, white complexion, with large [a full head of] hair of color gray) and the period of his absence was about 15 minutes, being that they had to [re-]heat his food, which had cooled;
- The second to leave (about 40/45 years of age, having the physical characteristics of the first, but having less bulky hair) did so for about 30 minutes, and that shortly after he returned, all left the table, except for an elderly person, who told him that a child had disappeared,

JERONIMO TOMAS RODRIGUES SALCEDAS (Phone No "91 768 ####) - bartender:
- He saw the missing Madeleine, for the last time, yesterday at 16.45h next to the restaurant;
- He did not notice if from the group of British citizens (in number 8 or 9) that yesterday dined in restaurant (which was partly made up of the parents of the missing [child]), someone left [absented themself] during such dinner;

So 2 people see someone probably Gerry, absent from the table for around 30 minutes. 'Shortly before' the alarm was raised.

 

[Ardoch]

Looking at some maps and photographs - I take it that the public road (where Tannerman was spotted walking down) was the road that had the least apartments on it? The road that would have been used rather than the footpath or the one that went by the Tapas restaurant?

 

[Chiatos]

With regards to his psychology, as others have said he could well be a psychopath. He could also be a sexual sadist, the two are not mutually exclusive. I made the possible mistake last night of watching a documentary where a prison psychologist interviews them. It was pretty horrific so I won't go into the real details but one man on there abused women and children of a wide age group and what he liked was the high he got from being in control when torturing, as in the ultimate control over life and death.
When he was in 'normal' relationships with women he beat them up and had to have control of them too but presented a 'normal' face to others such as colleagues or people he was trying to impress, said he dressed nice, drove a nice car ( sound familiar?). I think CB fits that profile but still there needs to be evidence to show he was in that apartment or they will never be able to charge him IMO.

but presented a 'normal' face to others such as colleagues or people -> indicates that these psychos actually realise and know for a fact that they are doing very wrong stuff

 

[JediJim]

The Portuguese investigation was like something from the 1970s.
Agreed it was terrible from the start.
It took hours for any police to get there.

 

[Kiranerys]

The sighting is the one where a man came forward and said that it was probably him after he collected his daughter. But a few people, inc myself, suspect that actually it might not have been the man who came forward, and that it might have been MM after all. Esp since the time of that sighting is pretty hazy

I read that it was years later that he came forward and that he even posed in the same exact clothes he was wearing and also produced the distinctive frilly bottomed pyjamas his daughter was wearing that night,I know people do keep their children's clothes for younger siblings and whatnot but this just seemed odd to me.
They said the creche gave them the names of everyone who picked up their children that night and he was contacted and confirmed it was him,so he appeared to have no knowledge of the sighting or description, which again seems odd as it was everywhere and easily found online and I would think anyone who was holidaying there at the time would have an interest in following the case even loosely so it's hard to see how he never came across such a specific description of himself and didn't recognise it,yet 6years later ( I think,dont quote me!) when he is approached by SY he can produce both his own and his 2 or 3 yr old daughters clothing and has a clear recollection,but maybe I am just suspicious by nature!

 

[Armchair_Defective]

The Portuguese investigation was like something from the 1970s.
Agreed it was terrible from the start.
It took hours for any police to get there.

I can't agree with that as a blanket statement, like many things in this case there is conflicting info. The McCanns say they can't remember who called the police. Phone records show a phone call made something like 45 minutes after 10.
This statement caught my eye, one witness saying the men in the group were searching in the bushes before Kate Mccann raised the alarm from the balcony!

'He served Russell and shortly thereafter, he was alerted to strange movements in the restaurant perimeters. He refers to the movements of two men from said group? David Payne and Matthew, who appeared to be searching the gardens the areas near the bar. The witness went to the esplanade zone and saw that the table that had previously been occupied by nine adults was now occupied only by the older woman, called Dianne Webster. It was also at this time that he saw that Russell's food was only half eaten and that the others had all finished their dinner.
David Payne and Matthew were nervously searching the area.

The witness went to them, he does not remember which one, and asked what was happening. One of them responded to the witness in English stating 'A GIRL IS MISSING?' that a child had gone missing. After a few moments, around 5 or 10 minutes, he heard screaming from the apartment zone and saw a woman on the balcony of 5 A. He did not understand what she was saying. As it was night, and given the distance from the Tapas bar to the apartment, he was not able to determine if there was someone else next to the woman on the balcony. At that moment his colleague, Joe, met up with him and asked the witness to call the police,

 

[flashy09]

The way the child was positioned is exactly how my child looks when I remove her from my bed back into her own bed. Just slide both arms in, under her back and bottom, and lift. She ends up in an almost sitting position. But this is the best way, as not to disturb her. The creche man doesn't sit right with me because, for 1, if I cared for children at a creche, I would see to it that she was properly dressed for leaving so late, with a coat on and whatnot. Besides, who sends children to creche wearing pyjamas anyway? As a parent, I would have woken my child to put on her jacket, had she not already been wearing it. The Tannerman held the child in a position like she had been lifted, undisturbed from her bed! X

The creche offered a nighttime program so parents could go out. So the child most likely was asleep and that was planned/hoped for, hence the pajamas. I am sure he did scoop her up asleep and was trying to keep her that way. He did have a blanket (he brought the pajamas and a blanket to the station to show what she was wearing) and in May in Portugal a coat probably was not needed.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

I read that it was years later that he came forward and that he even posed in the same exact clothes he was wearing and also produced the distinctive frilly bottomed pyjamas his daughter was wearing that night,I know people do keep their children's clothes for younger siblings and whatnot but this just seemed odd to me.
They said the creche gave them the names of everyone who picked up their children that night and he was contacted and confirmed it was him,so he appeared to have no knowledge of the sighting or description, which again seems odd as it was everywhere and easily found online and I would think anyone who was holidaying there at the time would have an interest in following the case even loosely so it's hard to see how he never came across such a specific description of himself and didn't recognise it,yet 6years later ( I think,dont quote me!) when he is approached by SY he can produce both his own and his 2 or 3 yr old daughters clothing and has a clear recollection,but maybe I am just suspicious by nature!

Yes the clothing thing was weird I found it odd too but it's possible that they gave him clothing to wear? If not that means you have to consider SY are up to some strange shenanigans with that announcement.

 

[JediJim]

It still never made sense why three of the tapas seven said that Robert Murat was near the apartment.
Why did they say he was there?