Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #4

[mrjitty]

If there were 600 suspects, then the PJ was in way over their head. They should have welcomed help from the Met. It could have been a joint effort from the start with an equal division of labor.

The point is that having suspects doesn't necessarily take you anywhere.

You can't get 600 search warrants for example.

 

[gitana1]

Pfff finaly a serious message to consider....thanks!


They found a hair in the rape victims bed that belonged to CB...don't ask me how they put one and one together after aaaaalllll this years. I think the video made them look deeper into the case. The apartment IMO is just bad wording and they actually mean a different place (maybe one of the older places he lived in, btw at the time Maddy went missing he was living in his van and already left the house he rented before)

Is it true that there’s evidence of a chat he was involved in indicating a desire to “use” a kid for a few days? And that when cautioned he said it’s okay as long as you get rid of the evidence?

 

[Wowno17]

OK i arrived late to this party and i got harassed out of the UK forum for being factual and not buying into their McCann conspiracy which has them hung, drawn and quartered.

Not a single theory fits and relies heavily on dubious claims.

As far as i see it, Bruckner fits the whole thing, and several more..he walked in to abduct, but his initial intent was robbery. When he realised that the family had a child, it got sinister...i think. But he'd done this before...it was still planned, and he used his contact either as an accomplice to abduction, or an unwitting accomplice that was 'only' assisting a burglary.

In 1994 he was in Germany and molested a child- he was 17.
Moved to Portugal in within a 40km radius, 2 blonde children disappeared, and a woman was raped on his beach route, which he was convicted for.
Leaving the area in 2008 for Germany, he worked 40km from a rural property he owned, which was also 40km from where Inga Gehricke disappeared in 2015.
Coincidentally he worked and a lived within a 40km radius of 3 unsolved child disappearances AND was known to be in the area in the latter two of those occurrences.

What is the probability that a person lived and worked within 40km of 2 disappearing children, and able to be in the area of a third and even fourth?..on first principles, one coincidence can be explained by chance...two can be explained by incidental coincidence, but three?...and four?. The likelihood is very low, but not conclusive of course. When you couple it with motive and criminal record though it becomes compelling.

The really scary thing is based on the limited information we have, his comments appear to allude to child trafficking. Stolen for order evil...'i have to do a horrible job tomorrow, but itll change my life'- may 2nd, 2007. ..
Could CB's paedophilia and drug running aligned him with opportunity for big $ human trafficking?..and did it AT LEAST three times?

Frightingly, if each was a big $ transaction, he seems to have run out of money almost every 10 years. Being a suspect for 1996, 2007 and 2015..
Where did he get the money to start his business in Germany from 2008 onwards?

McCann Conspiracies
Either the McCanns thought they could minimise the blame due to the opportunity their checking system gave the abductor, by hastily discussing the scenario..and it went to crap once the scrutiny arrived. Or they simply didnt recall the evening the same - thats actually a possibility. And since then there's been all sorts of suspicion due to that. That really does explain away almost everything.

There are multiple articles of drug and cadaver dogs of being only as good as chance. Many. A quick search comes up with a study in Australia that shows dogs are more wrong than right..in fact. And if a theory is based on a certainty that the dogs detected something, then its a weak theory.

Great post

 

[Tim N]

Very Candid- warning
TLDR: CB worked as part of a group, which hid their activities through levels of 'sub contracting'..which is why he cant be pinned exactly.

CB was just being a young <modsnip: profanity and/or circumventing board profanity filters is not allowed> in Germany in 1994. He has no cash so takes up an offer from one of his 'mates' to work and live in PdL.
(Who were these 'mates'?.. did they already live in PdL and saw an opportunity?..did CB know that's what the main game was?)
When he got to PdL he eitrher had mates already there, or found like minded individuals (the found theory doesnt make sense really)
Whatever it was, he either worked alone, or as part of a small group, or a wider organised group that used CB as their help for hire?
If it was always with a group, then there could very well be multiple people that cannot be ruled out, and thats why the trail isnt quite there in terms of his guilt. Maybe one of his mates abducted a child in 1996 but CB did the rest?..etc..
By having an organised group that has mutliple sub sub sub arrangements, it would be very difficult to pin definitive blame..

 

[mrjitty]

Is it true that there’s evidence of a chat he was involved in indicating a desire to “use” a kid for a few days? And that when cautioned he said it’s okay as long as you get rid of the evidence?

Yes.

It seems the main suspicion against him is the chat, and potential confession statement made in a bar to a friend.

That tipoff lead to a successful prosecution on an unrelated rape case.

Maybe the german prosecutor has more, we don't know.

 

[gitana1]

Yes.

It seems the main suspicion against him is the chat, and potential confession statement made in a bar to a friend.

That tipoff lead to a successful prosecution on an unrelated rape case.

Maybe the german prosecutor has more, we don't know.

Wow. Thanks for the response. I saw that in a tabloid so I wasn’t sure how accurate.

To me that indicates he killed and then destroyed the bodies of any child he took. Because leaving them alive means somehow evidence could come back to him if the child got away or was rescued, for example from a third party if he gave a child to someone else.

So my bet is he’s a murderer rather than a trafficker.

 

[LittleRose]

Very Candid- warning
TLDR: CB worked as part of a group, which hid their activities through levels of 'sub contracting'..which is why he cant be pinned exactly.

CB was just being a young <modsnip: profanity and/or circumventing board profanity filters is not allowed> in Germany in 1994. He has no cash so takes up an offer from one of his 'mates' to work and live in PdL.
(Who were these 'mates'?.. did they already live in PdL and saw an opportunity?..did CB know that's what the main game was?)
When he got to PdL he eitrher had mates already there, or found like minded individuals (the found theory doesnt make sense really)
Whatever it was, he either worked alone, or as part of a small group, or a wider organised group that used CB as their help for hire?
If it was always with a group, then there could very well be multiple people that cannot be ruled out, and thats why the trail isnt quite there in terms of his guilt. Maybe one of his mates abducted a child in 1996 but CB did the rest?..etc..
By having an organised group that has mutliple sub sub sub arrangements, it would be very difficult to pin definitive blame..

I think Martin Ney may have been one of CB’s mates. He was in PdL, German, same age range and a pedophile who raped and murdered (little boys). He’s in prison in Germany. What’s the chance that these two were in PdL (population of 3,500) and didn’t cross paths?

 

[peanutJelly]

But then he'd have to stop and put them back on while holding a (sleeping?) child? Maybe he wore flip flops and leotards?

I can’t seriously consider anyone doing an abduction in flip flops

 

[Dlk79]

Probability. Unless there are several other pedos that ere in each area at the time of an abduction, the likelihood is very high..pretty much certainty in fact.

But even a certainty probability isnt enough to establish guilt or eliminate doubt. Thats why they are still appealing. They know he did it, they know how he did it and they know who is involved..but they cant get that one piece of evidence that they need to meet judicial requirements.

OK, sure im taking the narrative that CB did it..but only as devil's advocate. I'm happy, and hopeful to be wrong.

(edit: maybe thats the issue- that he travelled with, and visited other suspects which could also then be implicated and therefore make it more difficult to correlate the location to the crimes..i.e. his work was always to sub contract various parts of an abduction..actually this sounds like an actual technique that would work..even if just to avoid conviction but not a charge)

Hope you don't mind but just wondering how you've arrived with so much information?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

This is why witnesses need to be interviewed separately and not talk to each other.

I suspect the following sort of thing happened.

GM knows he was talking with Wilkins in the alley. Tanner thinks he left the table first so that "must have been" about 10 mins after GM that she left.

Everyone has had some glasses of wine that evening and are in a high stress situation.

Was GM gone 20 mins or 30? Did Tanner leave first or second? Is she remembering the correct evening?

IMO she saw Trottman but maybe didn't exactly remember where/when, then based on suggestion from the others, thought than was where she must have seen him

Then maybe on the Murat ID, she kind of assumes PJ must have got the right guy?

I also believe the Tapas group gave interpretations favourable to themselves of how often they went for checks when in reality, they don't all remember the details too well.

In this way, the timeline came to be structured around an incorrect sighting as people interpreted their own movements based on what timings other group members gave.

I have been in a comparable time-critical situation (not a missing child, thankfully) and totally agree with everything you've said - they were drunk, disorientated by the situation, frantically remembering the order of events but differently/favourably, all desperate for a good and timely outcome. I totally get why the timeline isn't watertight.

Because things don't quite add up people say they're liars and I can't agree. I have no doubt they were drinking and carefree, sunshine and fun times, and people just aren't as tuned in to details in that scenario.

 

[Tim N]

Hope you don't mind but just wondering how you've arrived with so much information?

Would u believe I've just consumed mainstream media?

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

From a quick scan of Martin Ney on Wikipedia, it does make you wonder if he and CB compared methodology.

 

[peanutJelly]

The elephant in the room here is the opinion of Jane Tanner herself.

Again it's worth pointing out that police simply followed the evidence and murat identification of the primary witness.

Tanner man walked a different route so cannot have been Tottman unless Tanner herself finally agreed with police she had it wrong.

IMO that must have happened and fixes the inherent issues with tanners story

Why on earth anyone blames Met/PJ for this I have no idea

It was Tanner whose confusion sent the early investigation down the wrong path.

I’ve seen her talking about it on a documentary, was quite emotional and v insistent about what we saw, even after differing perspective from Gerry

 

[leticiaoliveira]

I think Martin Ney may have been one of CB’s mates. He was in PdL, German, same age range and a pedophile who raped and murdered (little boys). He’s in prison in Germany. What’s the chance that these two were in PdL (population of 3,500) and didn’t cross paths?

A british tourist staying at the Ocean Club when Madeleine disappeared said there were 2 blonde men around the area the day it happened. These men might be Martin Ney and Christian B.

 

[mrjitty]

Wow. Thanks for the response. I saw that in a tabloid so I wasn’t sure how accurate.

To me that indicates he killed and then destroyed the bodies of any child he took. Because leaving them alive means somehow evidence could come back to him if the child got away or was rescued, for example from a third party if he gave a child to someone else.

So my bet is he’s a murderer rather than a trafficker.

oh completely

Most of that trafficking stuff is urban myth. Human trafficking does exist of course, but no one is stealing 3 year old kids to order from holiday resorts.

Out of interest, this is the precise theory of the case developed by Mark Harrison for the PJ in 2007

Most likely the child was killed swiftly and concealed locally.

Abduction cases frequently have up to 3 crime scenes. The abduction scene, then an hidden crime scene where the abductor takes the victim - this is a place the abductor controls, and then the dumping ground where the body is either dumped or concealed.

IMO the case will never be resolved unless the dumping ground is located.

 

[mrjitty]

I’ve seen her talking about it on a documentary, was quite emotional and v insistent about what we saw, even after differing perspective from Gerry

Yes. Which makes the Crimewatch show even stranger.

But i really can't believe Met would 100% rule out her evidence without talking to her about it.

 

[peanutJelly]

The other thing is wilkins and Gerry were talking in the alleyway for a significant period of time and neither of then saw tanner or tannerman

As the corroborate each others evidence and the unlikelihood that wilkins has it wrong, IMO tanner is wrong about both the time and place of her sighting

My personal belief is the group corrupted each others evidence by hot housing the timeline to fit the jigsaw together

Gerry seems quite gregarious, too busy talking to notice details like that at the time

Thankfully, no Kate and Gerry bashing here. They’ve been made victims several times over. Most everyone here, I believe, think CB is guilty. Just no consensus on whether he was a lone predator satisfying his private sick desires or whether he trafficked MM for profit. I believe it was the later.

yes I can’t decide whether he was a lone operator or part of something bigger, though leaning towards the latter

 

[peanutJelly]

Very Candid- warning
TLDR: CB worked as part of a group, which hid their activities through levels of 'sub contracting'..which is why he cant be pinned exactly.

CB was just being a young sick f*** pedo cu*t in Germany in 1994. He has no cash so takes up an offer from one of his 'mates' to work and live in PdL.
(Who were these 'mates'?.. did they already live in PdL and saw an opportunity?..did CB know that's what the main game was?)
When he got to PdL he eitrher had mates already there, or found like minded individuals (the found theory doesnt make sense really)
Whatever it was, he either worked alone, or as part of a small group, or a wider organised group that used CB as their help for hire?
If it was always with a group, then there could very well be multiple people that cannot be ruled out, and thats why the trail isnt quite there in terms of his guilt. Maybe one of his mates abducted a child in 1996 but CB did the rest?..etc..
By having an organised group that has mutliple sub sub sub arrangements, it would be very difficult to pin definitive blame..

Very Candid- warning
TLDR: CB worked as part of a group, which hid their activities through levels of 'sub contracting'..which is why he cant be pinned exactly.

CB was just being a young sick f*** pedo cu*t in Germany in 1994. He has no cash so takes up an offer from one of his 'mates' to work and live in PdL.
(Who were these 'mates'?.. did they already live in PdL and saw an opportunity?..did CB know that's what the main game was?)
When he got to PdL he eitrher had mates already there, or found like minded individuals (the found theory doesnt make sense really)
Whatever it was, he either worked alone, or as part of a small group, or a wider organised group that used CB as their help for hire?
If it was always with a group, then there could very well be multiple people that cannot be ruled out, and thats why the trail isnt quite there in terms of his guilt. Maybe one of his mates abducted a child in 1996 but CB did the rest?..etc..
By having an organised group that has mutliple sub sub sub arrangements, it would be very difficult to pin definitive blame..

This is exact my thoughts recently but you probs describe it much better. Think he moved to be amongst like minded people, but not sure if he acted alone or with others, leaning towards with others at the mo

 

[peanutJelly]

I think Martin Ney may have been one of CB’s mates. He was in PdL, German, same age range and a pedophile who raped and murdered (little boys). He’s in prison in Germany. What’s the chance that these two were in PdL (population of 3,500) and didn’t cross paths?

I’m of the same opinion too, especially as photo fits look like him. Sadly bit of mentoring and training going on I think

 

[Kiranerys]

A british tourist staying at the Ocean Club when Madeleine disappeared said there were 2 blonde men around the area the day it happened. These men might be Martin Ney and Christian B.

One of the e-fits released looks just like Martin Ney