Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #5

[Dlk79]

This is so confusing now. The Daily record ALSO say they have interviewed him and this was the one where he repeated he 'had no facts' to say she was dead a number of times.
So two separate papers making up similar things?

Papers will often recyle something that has appeared in other papers. I think a lot is getting lost in translation and semantics. When he talks about "no facts" (if he has actually used that quote), I think he just means they don't have forensic evidence to prove the death.

 

[Ardoch]

Things might become clearer by the end of the week.

 

[Sorryaboutthat123]

I'm even more confused now;

'No information could be given at all about the amount and completeness of the evidence, "because it is simply not possible at all. I have only communicated that there is as yet no sufficient suspicion of crime.
Such is the case if the likelihood of a conviction is greater than that Probability of acquittal, "concludes Public Prosecutor Wolters.'

I think that this is partially down to the language barrier. Germany’s legal system seems to be somewhat similar to the UK in the sense that the police don’t go to the CPS until they have sufficient evidence and the CPS won’t charge until they are reasonably sure that there could be a conviction. The German system probably has thresholds just like the CPS do. They aren’t at that threshold yet but they do have evidence to believe he is the person responsible. The German authorities know this is a huge case and if they strike to early and this man walks free, it would be catastrophic. I am not sure what the double jeopardy laws are like in Germany but that may be a factor too. It is wise and sensible to build the absolute strongest case possible. He isn’t going anywhere right now and I hope he is reflecting (if he is guilty) on what he has done while he’s in isolation. Nothing is worse then your own company and silence after all. They seem very confident that they have the right man so they must be allowed to build their case. If this man is guilty it is worth waiting extra to secure his conviction.

 

[Dlk79]

I know, I know its the Sun.....................!

Madeleine McCann's parents get letter from cops saying she's definitely dead

That's pretty unambiguous. So not even SY have been told all the evidence.

“We have concrete evidence that our suspect has killed Madeleine.

“British police have been informed but don’t have all the evidence we have. The results of our investigation have been shared but not every detail has been passed to Scotland Yard.

“I don’t think the McCanns have been informed of all the details but they know the results.”

 

[Armchair_Defective]

Papers will often recyle something that has appeared in other papers. I think a lot is getting lost in translation and semantics. When he talks about "no facts" (if he has actually used that quote), I think he just means they don't have forensic evidence to prove the death.

Yes I know, I know news is syndicated but the Daily Record said they spoke to him in his offices. 'Our interview with Wolters was at his office in Braunschweig, northern Germany '' They quoted him as saying 'no facts' three times.
It really is so very odd.

 

[tedtink]

That's pretty unambiguous. So not even SY have been told all the evidence.

“We have concrete evidence that our suspect has killed Madeleine.

“British police have been informed but don’t have all the evidence we have. The results of our investigation have been shared but not every detail has been passed to Scotland Yard.

“I don’t think the McCanns have been informed of all the details but they know the results.”

They didn't say when the letter was sent. As discussed on here previously they're putting pressure on German LE to see the evidence.

 

[Dlk79]

They didn't say when the letter was sent. As discussed on here previously they're putting pressure on German LE to see the evidence.

Good point. Story being covered by the Telegraph too so looks legit.

Police withhold proof of Madeleine McCann's 'death' from her parents

 

[Armchair_Defective]

I think that this is partially down to the language barrier. Germany’s legal system seems to be somewhat similar to the UK in the sense that the police don’t go to the CPS until they have sufficient evidence and the CPS won’t charge until they are reasonably sure that there could be a conviction. The German system probably has thresholds just like the CPS do. They aren’t at that threshold yet but they do have evidence to believe he is the person responsible. The German authorities know this is a huge case and if they strike to early and this man walks free, it would be catastrophic. I am not sure what the double jeopardy laws are like in Germany but that may be a factor too. It is wise and sensible to build the absolute strongest case possible. He isn’t going anywhere right now and I hope he is reflecting (if he is guilty) on what he has done while he’s in isolation. Nothing is worse then your own company and silence after all. They seem very confident that they have the right man so they must be allowed to build their case. If this man is guilty it is worth waiting extra to secure his conviction.

The bit I found confusing was 'there is as yet no sufficient suspicion of crime....
....Such is the case if the likelihood of a conviction is greater than that Probability of acquittal,

So a case that is more likely to end in conviction rather than acquittal...can have no sufficient suspicion of something??

Makes no sense whatsoever to me!

 

[sleuth-d-]

Have a feeling he was going back and forth perhaps. It mentions in the article he was living with with AB for 2 to 3 weeks at a time, so where was he in between? Also, AB found he was drying out cannabis on the roof. He mentioned to the guy in Foral he used the winnebago to transport grass. Maybe he was buying up cannabis on the cheap from contacts in Portugal and transporting it to Germany to sell.

the first trip to northern germany would fill the first 3 weeks after MBM disappearance - then back to foral... to fit in with the comment - 'he turned up in foral about a month after MBM's disappearance'. jmo

 

[Ardoch]

The Mail online is leading with this now
Kate and Gerry McCann 'could be told within days how Madeleine died' | Daily Mail Online

 

[tedtink]

Police/prosecutors can ask to question him at the first instance and he can refuse ( which he has done)
There is a 2nd 'pre trial' phase where a judge would question him, he can't refuse that but they must charge him first before, setting out details of what he has allegedly done.

So there's no means of good old fashioned interrogation, unless CB decides to speak?

 

[tedtink]

The Mail online is leading with this now
Kate and Gerry McCann 'could be told within days how Madeleine died' | Daily Mail Online

'Could be' is the key there.

 

[Kikixxxx]

Papers will often recyle something that has appeared in other papers. I think a lot is getting lost in translation and semantics. When he talks about "no facts" (if he has actually used that quote), I think he just means they don't have forensic evidence to prove the death.

I always thought they were sister papers, or owned by the same people or something. Daily record is more Scotland based and the mirror is more England I’d say. I could be wrong though but would make sense why they both used the same article.

 

[Dlk79]

The bit I found confusing was 'there is as yet no sufficient suspicion of crime....
....Such is the case if the likelihood of a conviction is greater than that Probability of acquittal,

So a case that is more likely to end in conviction rather than acquittal...can have no sufficient suspicion of something??

Makes no sense whatsoever to me!

This is through google translate though, perhaps one of our German friends can better explain it.

I suspect it means something along the lines of there is not yet sufficient evidence, to prove that CB committed the crime, by their threshold standards. JMO.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

I always thought they were sister papers, or owned by the same people or something. Daily record is more Scotland based and the mirror is more England I’d say. I could be wrong though but would make sense why they both used the same article.

You're right, owned by the same company it seems.

 

[tedtink]

Good point. Story being covered by the Telegraph too so looks legit.

Police withhold proof of Madeleine McCann's 'death' from her parents

But also previously discussed, I said it would jeopardise the case if they were told all the evidence - It must be so painful for them.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

So there's no means of good old fashioned interrogation, unless CB decides to speak?

Not yet. They need evidence of what was done, where, who, when etc. He will only get questioned after they have that.

 

[Kikixxxx]

Prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters Wolters said today: “We have written to the McCanns to tell them Madeleine is dead and explaining we just cannot say what the evidence is.

“We have concrete evidence that our suspect has killed Madeleine.

“British police have been informed but don’t have all the evidence we have. The results of our investigation have been shared but not every detail has been passed to Scotland Yard.

Mr Wolters said: “I understand what the McCann family lawyer is saying. I sympathise with the parents but if we reveal more details to them it might jeopardise the investigation

This is a murder case not a missing persons case. We have been quite clear throughout that we are investigating a murder and have evidence for that.

“We can understand the pain of the parents and they want relief, but it is better for them that we have a clear and successful conclusion to the case.

“There is no realistic hope she is alive. Of course I understand the parents want to believe she is until they see a body.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11871138/madeleine-mccann-german-cops-kate-gerry-letter-dead/

Apart from her body, what exactly could the evidence be to make them so certain?

 

[Sorryaboutthat123]

The bit I found confusing was 'there is as yet no sufficient suspicion of crime....
....Such is the case if the likelihood of a conviction is greater than that Probability of acquittal,

So a case that is more likely to end in conviction rather than acquittal...can have no sufficient suspicion of something??

Makes no sense whatsoever to me!

i think what they are saying is before they can charge a suspect they have to be convinced that when it goes to trial, it is more like that the defendant will be convicted instead of acquitted.

 

[tedtink]

Good point. Story being covered by the Telegraph too so looks legit.

Police withhold proof of Madeleine McCann's 'death' from her parents

I trust the DT on this one.