Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #6

[CoverMeCagney]

Headline says he went "before" disappearance, but the text says he went "after" unless I'm misreading something?

Hahah it's The Sun. At least they can say they got the story right one way or the other

 

[mrjitty]

Some news: German prosecutors say they have 'concrete evidence, not mere indications' that Madeleine McCann | Daily Mail Online
German prosecutors say they have 'concrete evidence, not mere indications' that Madeleine McCann is dead..

How come Portugal has sent the DNA samples in the case of 72 year old Christian B's rape victim but they are refusing to send the evidence in Madeleine's case?

Again not everything is a conspiracy.

The samples have already been lifted from the crime scenes years ago and tested. A hair in the case of the 72 year old rape victim. These give profiles and partial profiles which can be then be compared via computer analysis to new suspects. Presumably given the match in the rape case, the hair was then sent to Germany as evidence in the trial.

In the MM case, it is said Portugal already compared the profiles it had on file with CB and found no match.

We don't know if they went to the lengths of retesting the samples but it is hard to see what the point would be. You don't need to do that every time you get a new suspect. It is also hard to understand why Portugal should send evidence it holds of a potential crime, to Germany, based on the say so of a Prosecutor without a lot more.

 

[Owlpellet]

To see if the path is clear, totally believable. However, keeping it open, would have possibly let too much noise in for his liking if 3 kids were asleep. The clinking of forks, background laughter and passing vehicles would have made the task more difficult for someone almost certainly tiptoeing around.

We don't know how he did it. I can't get away from the fact that the twins never woke up afterwards despite all the pandemonium going on around them. Even KM questioned whether they had been drugged.

During one of the possibly related attacks in the area a child said "is that you daddy?" or words to that effect and he said "yes, it's daddy". So he can engage with his victims...

So maybe he spoke to them all, said he was friend of their parents sent to check on them. (He wouldn't have been the first sent to check on them, would he?) Maybe he gave them all a nice drink of coke like he did the night before, laced with Rohypnol or something, leaving a stain on MM's pj top and causing her to be really tired the next day. Who knows really? But maybe having the window open wasn't an issue.

 

[LittleRose]

Bob on my thoughts.

the McCanns are victims and are treated as such in WS (rightly so), so I suggest the following with the upmost respect, and only in the interest of the timeline and availability for the abduction:- but it’s quite clear in the years that have passed that the window to perform this heinous crime was large.

sadly, there is little to no sense in the frequency the group needed to check on their children. You just wouldn’t leave them alone (again, not a needless and cruel criticism, they’ve paid the worst possible price, but a mere observation). I’m confident they embellished. Meaning:

The “window” in the timing sense is wide open in comparison to what we think it is. The opportunity to abduct far greater.

EBM: Lots of babble, also lots of gin. Sorry!

The McCanns have said that they will forever regret the decision to eat at the tapas restaurant and do periodic checks on their sleeping kids. It does not follow, however, that had they been in the apartment, Madeleine would not have been abducted. Madeleine and the twins were in a separate room from the parents. There were plenty of break-ins and attacks on children in the Algarve when the parents were in the apartment in a separate bedroom. The only safekeeping of children at resorts in the Algarve at that time would have been in the same room as the parents. Yet, the McCanns wouldn’t have known this because they didn’t know how bad the crime rate was there with respect to burglaries and rapes. The resort should have warned patrons about keeping the doors and windows locked at night. The resort knew about the problem. Their female staff were given rape whistles. If the McCanns had been given a minor heads up about a potential break-in, then it would have undone the idea they had in their minds about it being a family-friendly resort. Not only would they never left their kids in the apartment alone, but they also would have probably slept in the same room as them.

My heart breaks for the McCanns.

 

[mrjitty]

The “window” in the timing sense is wide open in comparison to what we think it is. The opportunity to abduct far greater.

RSBM

Yes - none of which is new as the Met said as much on Crimewatch years ago.

There was a much as a 30 min window, maybe more.

 

[Owlpellet]

The McCanns have said that they will forever regret the decision to eat at the tapas restaurant and do periodic checks on their sleeping kids. It does not follow, however, that had they been in the apartment, Madeleine would not have been abducted. Madeleine and the twins were in a separate room from the parents. There were plenty of break-ins and attacks on children in the Algarve when the parents were in the apartment in a separate bedroom. The only safekeeping of children at resorts in the Algarve at that time would have been in the same room as the parents. Yet, the McCanns wouldn’t have known this because they didn’t know how bad the crime rate was there with respect to burglaries and rapes. The resort should have warned patrons about keeping the doors and windows locked at night. The resort knew about the problem. Their female staff were given rape whistles. If the McCanns had been given a minor heads up about a potential break-in, then it would have undone the idea they had in their minds about it being a family-friendly resort. Not only would they never left their kids in the apartment alone, but they also would have probably slept in the same room as them.

My heart breaks for the McCanns.

Yes, I've thought that too- that it could have happened anyway, regardless of what they had done. Babysitter...stayed in. Didn't matter if he had set his mind to doing it. He'd just have found another way.

 

[Fizzysolvescrime91]

RSBM

Yes - none of which is new as the Met said as much on Crimewatch years ago.

There was a much as a 30 min window, maybe more.

Apologies for any hot air by me there. I do forget about the crime watch special. I can feel you all going “duh fizzy, we know”

 

[Fizzysolvescrime91]

Yes, I've thought that too- that it could have happened anyway, regardless of what they had done. Babysitter...stayed in. Didn't matter if he had set his mind to doing it. He'd just have found another way.

certainly. This man was predatory. I hope I didn’t in anyway come across as scalding the McCanns for that grave decision. It’s quite plausible they wanted the frequency of checks to be greater and so they imagined them being.

Just awful.

 

[Kikixxxx]

During one of the possibly related attacks in the area a child said "is that you daddy?" or words to that effect and he said "yes, it's daddy".

That’s actually just made my blood run cold.... “yes it’s daddy”.... ugh

 

[Lillymac]

Can we please not repeat old ground?

How do new people on forum know what's old ground? This is an old case. Just asking...

 

[Kikixxxx]

Police at war over Madeleine McCann DNA evidence as Portuguese REFUSE 'arrogant' German request to retest saliva sample found on her bed spread to see if it matches prime suspect


Madeleine McCann: Portuguese police reject retest request | Daily Mail Online

 

[TizerisT]

It seems to be a matter of pride to the PJ. It's not about them, I wish they would just swallow that pride and be more open.

 

[tedtink]

Police at war over Madeleine McCann DNA evidence as Portuguese REFUSE 'arrogant' German request to retest saliva sample found on her bed spread to see if it matches prime suspect


Madeleine McCann: Portuguese police reject retest request | Daily Mail Online

Jeez the PJ sound so defensive and are coming across as really inadequate, if this article is true.

 

[Ajl48]

Police at war over Madeleine McCann DNA evidence as Portuguese REFUSE 'arrogant' German request to retest saliva sample found on her bed spread to see if it matches prime suspect


Madeleine McCann: Portuguese police reject retest request | Daily Mail Online

Pathetic

 

[Sallyla]

Again not everything is a conspiracy.

The samples have already been lifted from the crime scenes years ago and tested. A hair in the case of the 72 year old rape victim. These give profiles and partial profiles which can be then be compared via computer analysis to new suspects. Presumably given the match in the rape case, the hair was then sent to Germany as evidence in the trial.

In the MM case, it is said Portugal already compared the profiles it had on file with CB and found no match.

We don't know if they went to the lengths of retesting the samples but it is hard to see what the point would be. You don't need to do that every time you get a new suspect. It is also hard to understand why Portugal should send evidence it holds of a potential crime, to Germany, based on the say so of a Prosecutor without a lot more.

Under the terms of mutual legal assistance, evidence can be requested from overseas if it is if the “line(s) of enquiry is reasonable, necessary and proportionate for the purpose of the investigation or proceedings.”

A known sex offender who was in Luz at the time, left just after the murder, reregistered his car to another country just after, has abused children and watched CSE videos of kids and told his friend there was a place in his van where he could kidnap a child, and has discussed his desire to kidnap a child and kill it. That’s more than enough evidence to justify the request.

We don’t know what evidence he has that we don’t know about either.

I just can’t understand the PJs reaction and it’s making me suspicious. The PJ claim, the sample is useless, a profile can’t be generated from it. They also say they feel insulted because their labs are just as good as the Germans.

Now what gets me, if all that was true and there was no way it could be useful and their labs are as good as the Germans, then surely the logical and most face saving response would be ‘You can have it, knock yourself out. But you won’t find more than we did.’ The responding ‘Told you so” when the Germans can’t do better? There doesn’t seem to be any reasonable or logical reason for stalling.

My suspicion is that the PJ have lost or destroyed the evidence and don’t want to admit it. Or it wasn’t tested at the time and they want to cover up they’ve been sitting on a potentially game changing bit of evidence since 2007. I’ve seen cases before where requests from police have been refused for no particular reason other that ‘ongoing investigation’, then the people requesting spent years fighting for its release. When that was eventually won the police admitted they’d destroyed it years ago.


My strongest feeling though is this is simple petulance on the part of the PJ. If the Germans wrap this case up with evidence from 2007 the PJ are going to look absolutely effing terrible and incompetent. Not following up evidence, poor forensics, and most importantly their aggressive behaviour towards the McCann’s especially Amaral’s book accusing them.

IAt the end of the day, the relationship with the McCann’s and the PJ has always had a lot of tension. I don’t think the McCann’s or the Germans feel confident they can take the PJ’s word for it. They really need to send it over or it will be even worse for them if it is wrapped up.

 

[mrjitty]

Apologies for any hot air by me there. I do forget about the crime watch special. I can feel you all going “duh fizzy, we know”

No worries - I was not sure if you knew that.

 

[mrjitty]

Under the terms of mutual legal assistance, evidence can be requested from overseas if it is if the “line(s) of enquiry is reasonable, necessary and proportionate for the purpose of the investigation or proceedings.”

A known sex offender who was in Luz at the time, left just after the murder, reregistered his car to another country just after, has abused children and watched CSE videos of kids and told his friend there was a place in his van where he could kidnap a child, and has discussed his desire to kidnap a child and kill it. That’s more than enough evidence to justify the request.

We don’t know what evidence he has that we don’t know about either.

I just can’t understand the PJs reaction and it’s making me suspicious. The PJ claim, the sample is useless, a profile can’t be generated from it. They also say they feel insulted because their labs are just as good as the Germans.

Now what gets me, if all that was true and there was no way it could be useful and their labs are as good as the Germans, then surely the logical and most face saving response would be ‘You can have it, knock yourself out. But you won’t find more than we did.’ The responding ‘Told you so” when the Germans can’t do better? There doesn’t seem to be any reasonable or logical reason for stalling.

My suspicion is that the PJ have lost or destroyed the evidence and don’t want to admit it. Or it wasn’t tested at the time and they want to cover up they’ve been sitting on a potentially game changing bit of evidence since 2007. I’ve seen cases before where requests from police have been refused for no particular reason other that ‘ongoing investigation’, then the people requesting spent years fighting for its release. When that was eventually won the police admitted they’d destroyed it years ago.


My strongest feeling though is this is simple petulance on the part of the PJ. If the Germans wrap this case up with evidence from 2007 the PJ are going to look absolutely effing terrible and incompetent. Not following up evidence, poor forensics, and most importantly their aggressive behaviour towards the McCann’s especially Amaral’s book accusing them.

IAt the end of the day, the relationship with the McCann’s and the PJ has always had a lot of tension. I don’t think the McCann’s or the Germans feel confident they can take the PJ’s word for it. They really need to send it over or it will be even worse for them if it is wrapped up.

If you will indulge me not to engage in you wider points, however validly made, I think the issue is we simply don't know what the Germans asked for, what PJ supplied, whether or not the Germans are mad, and what PJ think about it.

This is all coming from a supposed source of Brunt now spun out into the Mail on supposed PJ sources.

 

[Ausgrlz]

Apart from CB being a suspect, 13 years on were not much wiser about MMs disappearance.

That’s not really the case, we now can surmise 1) there is concrete information suggesting she is dead 2) the sequence of events leading to her death 3) shirt worn by perpetrator during crime in an image or via police statement
1:German prosecutors have 'concrete evidence' Maddie McCann is dead | Sky News Australia
2:Madeleine McCann suspect investigated over rape and murder of German boy, 13, whose body was mutilated
3:FOUND: Shirt worn by Madeleine McCann suspect

 

[Andreee]

already brought up. DBM

 

[Andreee]

Police at war over Madeleine McCann DNA evidence as Portuguese REFUSE 'arrogant' German request to retest saliva sample found on her bed spread to see if it matches prime suspect


Madeleine McCann: Portuguese police reject retest request | Daily Mail Online

They should allow it! Egos ugh!