Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #7

[Dlk79]

CB sounds as though he felt he was invincible to getting caught for stuff... my heads spent. Na night xx

Tom said:”He was a funny guy, not in a comedy way but weird, he would talk about Portugal and how much fun he had there and how he loved living there as he was popular with women.“He told us us had a criminal past and that had been busted for drugs and he said he would use his camper van to take drugs from Spain and Portugal back to Germany. He always said the police were too stupid to catch him.
Christian B left Portugal days after Maddie disappearance to set up drugs network

Interesting quote in that article -

“He also got into a huge row with another friend because he borrowed a lap top from him and when Christian gave it back the guy found lots of child on it.”

Sounds very similar to the SM accusation made by the anonymous Alison that her boyfriend "Christian" had allegedly 'told' her about.

P.J. POLICE FILES: SERGEY MALINKA & SVETLANA MALINKA

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

Yes, I think on the Netflix doc SM didn’t want to comment on deleted files? I can’t remember the question exactly. I hope he is commenting to LE now. He could email Operationgrange if he didn’t want to talk to PJ.

 

[SouthAussie]

<RSBM>

ETA: MT seemed to indicate CB was interested in MT's cannabis connections. Possibly why he sought out MT. We know CB was drying out cannabis on the roof of AB's house in Germany around this time too.

Yes, it sounds as if that is exactly why Brueckner went looking for Tatchl.


Just weeks after the abduction of Madeleine McCann Brueckner also travelled to Spain where Mr Tatschl was living in Orgiva, Andalucia.
Tatschl said: 'In late May or early June he arrived in Spain with his big American camper van. He knew I had connections to the marijuana world and could help him make money.
'I know he did it': Christian Brueckner's friend says the German is guilty of taking Madeline McCann | Daily Mail Online

 

[mrjitty]

Kate has always said she went in via the patio doors. Gerry on the other hand said in his first statement May 4th, that he and Kate both did their checks on the children entering the front door using their room key. Gerry said Matt entered via the unlocked patio doors on his check. Kate gave her first statement on May 4th approximately 3 hours after Gerry's statement. Kate said she checked the children going in through the patio doors and she said Matt did the same when he checked.

Sure - I am not trying to litigate it.

I was simply explaining why Amaral might say that.

IIRC PJ was sceptical Matt ever did his check.

This case always comes back to the same old problem that we have very little reliable evidence of the timeline or state of the apartment given so many people went into it even before police arrived.

 

[mrjitty]

One thing that does come to mind when you read between the lines of all these stories is that German LE still think it's possible to recover a body. Implies they do know what happened there and the body can be found.

Personally I remain sceptical that a prosecution is possible without a body.

It's the same issue PJ ran into, and they solved it via politics. When there is a global search running for a live child that is reasonable doubt right there, including in any CB prosecution. What crime was committed? Murder? Abduction? Manslaughter? Who can say.

So Portugal was able to archive the case, lacking proof of what (if any) serious crime was in fact committed. Clever.

Germany is now trying to swim against the tide.

 

[mrjitty]

There was an overnight ferry to Morroco and at the time in 2007 forums were full of this theory. This is why McCanns went to Morroco to spread the news about her disappearance.

Which is like a perfect prefabricated defence to any charges of murder

 

[mrjitty]

I kind of agree there, but if German LE considered him a key witness he would have been told not to speak to the media.

A couple of us pointed out on here yesterday his involvment in finding the rape video was inadvertently revealed. One article from a few years ago spoke about it was someone CB had previously stolen diesel with who found the video. Then yesterday when the piece about the blue van came out it mentioned it was destroyed after CB didnt pay the fine after stealing diesel with MT.

My guess is that other people picked up on that link and have sought MT out to get his comment. For whatever reason he has obilged with this.

He likely got paid.

 

[Dlk79]

Personally I remain sceptical that a prosecution is possible without a body.

It's the same issue PJ ran into, and they solved it via politics. When there is a global search running for a live child that is reasonable doubt right there, including in any CB prosecution. What crime was committed? Murder? Abduction? Manslaughter? Who can say.

So Portugal was able to archive the case, lacking proof of what (if any) serious crime was in fact committed. Clever.

Germany is now trying to swim against the tide.

It depends what evidence the German LE have. PJ closed the case because, as they saw it, nothing could be proven one way or the other as to what happened. That seems to not be the case now. It is possible to get a murder conviction without a body, Mark Bridger was sentenced for murder and abduction of April Jones for example and there are many other cases like that. It all rests on what other evidence there is. You don't need to have a body, but it does definitely help, and I get the impression German LE still think that's possible by building on what they already know.

 

[Dlk79]

He likely got paid.

Quite possibly.

 

[SouthAussie]

Wiki lists 92 successful prosecutions of murder without a body. The vast majority of them prosecuted in the UK and the USA.

It also lists 6 other cases where the verdict in a successful prosecution was overturned.

List of murder convictions without a body - Wikipedia

 

[Dlk79]

Sure - I am not trying to litigate it.

I was simply explaining why Amaral might say that.

IIRC PJ was sceptical Matt ever did his check.

This case always comes back to the same old problem that we have very little reliable evidence of the timeline or state of the apartment given so many people went into it even before police arrived.

Not sure Matt's check is relevant anyway since he stated he never set eyes on MM, she may have already been gone at that point.

The state of the apartment is a different issue though I agree, though its understandable the first reaction of many may be to move things to look for a missing child rather than thinking about preserving a crime scene.

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

Something niggling from yesterday (or the day before). Hazel, the brave holiday rep who was raped.


This is gruesome so don’t read if you are feeling sensitive.

In the radio transcript or article, she said she refused to go into the bathroom with him. Why do I think he was going to cut her throat?

ETA: presence of water may be necessary for him to do so (forensic or practical countermeasure?)

Was it just that I had read recently about the boy in the tunnel who was bled out over the river? And it reminds me of slaughtering pigs (or rather, stories I have heard from European villages where they slaughtered a pig for food).

And in a recent article, I think someone who knew CB said he smelt of meat.

 

[mrjitty]

It depends what evidence the German LE have. PJ closed the case because, as they saw it, nothing could be proven one way or the other as to what happened. That seems to not be the case now. It is possible to get a murder conviction without a body, Mark Bridger was sentenced for murder and abduction of April Jones for example and there are many other cases like that. It all rests on what other evidence there is. You don't need to have a body, but it does definitely help, and I get the impression German LE still think that's possible by building on what they already know.

Well in the Bridger case, they had sufficient forensic evidence to prove how the body was disposed of, at the accused's house.

Indeed in the no body cases I can think of, they always have at least something to tie the accused to murder and disposal - e.g. Suzanne Pilley.

I think they need at least that much.

So if they find forensic traces of MM at a place he lived for example. That would be hard to defend.

But short of that I just don't see how you can prove beyond reasonable doubt what crime was even committed because you can never rule out the possibility she is in Morocco or where ever - I mean that was the very basis of the parents' approach for 13 years.

 

[mrjitty]

Not sure Matt's check is relevant anyway since he stated he never set eyes on MM, she may have already been gone at that point.

The state of the apartment is a different issue though I agree, though its understandable the first reaction of many may be to move things to look for a missing child rather than thinking about preserving a crime scene.

Agree re Matt

I think the main point is that from a prosecution point of view, a number of things which might be assumed to be facts about the crime scene in this thread might be quite difficult to prove in a prosecution.

 

[TizerisT]

A bit of CCTV or even a text message can also prove guilt without a body. It's not the only factor you need, with todays technology.

 

[mrjitty]

My point about a body is that CB currently has 2 "prepack defences"

1. MM was abducted by person unknown and is alive
2. The Amaral/PJ theory of the case.

Any murder prosecution needs to prove both the actual actus reus of murder (the physical action) and that the homicide was carried out by the accused.

So while I agree in some cases murder can be inferred from other facts where the accused was very good at hiding the body (e.g Pilley) - there does need to be some forensic of witness evidence to tie the accused to the act of murder.

Otherwise it will not be possible to rule out defences 1 and 2 beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[mrjitty]

A bit of CCTV or even a text message can also prove guilt without a body. It's not the only factor you need, with todays technology.

Regardless you will need some evidence that MM was in the possession of the accused as a bare minimum.

In the case of Pilley for example, the prosecution had cadaver dog hits in the accused car boot.

 

[Dlk79]

Well in the Bridger case, they had sufficient forensic evidence to prove how the body was disposed of, at the accused's house.

Indeed in the no body cases I can think of, they always have at least something to tie the accused to murder and disposal - e.g. Suzanne Pilley.

I think they need at least that much.

So if they find forensic traces of MM at a place he lived for example. That would be hard to defend.

But short of that I just don't see how you can prove beyond reasonable doubt what crime was even committed because you can never rule out the possibility she is in Morocco or where ever - I mean that was the very basis of the parents' approach for 13 years.

Which is obviously why they are trying to find some forensic trace. If they did have a video though, combined with witness testimony relating to some kind of confession, I still think a prosecution is perhaps possible there, provided there's enough circumstantial evidence to back up CB's involvment. Unfortunately, we don't know what they have just yet so we can only speculate.

 

[photographer4]

'I know he did it': Christian Brueckner's friend says the German is guilty of taking Madeline McCann | Daily Mail Online

Real stand up guy that friend....

 

[mrjitty]

Which is obviously why they are trying to find some forensic trace. If they did have a video though, combined with witness testimony relating to some kind of confession, I still think a prosecution is perhaps possible there, provided there's enough circumstantial evidence to back up CB's involvment. Unfortunately, we don't know what they have just yet so we can only speculate.

Well a video plus confession would be powerful direct witness evidence.

Having a video would be pretty hard to explain and creates a powerful inference of guilt as far as abduction goes. Personally I doubt police have this or he would have been charged already.

My guess is that have the confession testimony and need this to lead them to some hard forensics.