Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #8

[MENDEL]

I keep wondering about the phone mast times too. How certain are we that they are correct times and not out by an hour (for example)?

Do the clocks change in Portugal or in phone mast analysis countries? I am only wondering; it is not that I think anything is wrong.

The hour is very exact and it's given by operator. Of course it's local time unless it has some label like GMT or UTC. These days they usually must have a source of time ordered by law. This is not recent, but I can't be sure it was so in 2007. Anyway, any source they use won't be more than 1min. away from a reliable source under any circumstances. Problem is location. There's no such thing as OC's mast. There's a mast in PDL and it covers a wide area. A call using that mast can be anywhere within coverage area and there's no way to tell how distant from mast or which direction from it.

 

[tedtink]

A lot's been written about sightings of a man carrying a child the night MM disappeared.

If I was about to write a fictional police book about a kidnapping under those circumstances I'd never put a man carrying the child. I'd consider screaming and child agitation a great danger for perpetrator. So I'd put a car waiting right next to apartment to go away in a second.

You have only 2 choices: either they carried MM to a home nearby, and they could go by foot, or they carried her far away, and they needed a car.

My question is: the second choice is by far more probable. So why should they park the car far from apartment, especially when they could park it right next to apartment?

So, those sightings must be false leads, wrong persons, illusion, lies, and so on.

Yes, however, if you knew people would be carrying kids back from the kids club you could easily be considered as doing just that if you were seen by other people.
A car right next to the appt, through the window, into the back seat or boot- risky - but we know CB took risks, so equally feasible.

 

[photographer4]

Yes, however, if you knew people would be carrying kids back from the kids club you could easily be considered as doing just that if you were seen by other people.
A car right next to the appt, through the window, into the back seat or boot- risky - but we know CB took risks, so equally feasible.

I doubt he put the kid in the backseat. He'd want to be able to control her in the event she woke up prematurely. He would wanna make sure she couldn't sit up and start screaming / drawing attention to herself, which she surely would have. So, where would he go that would be quiet and secluded so he could do whatever he had planned? A quiet beach? Risky - people MIGHT show up and walk past / notice something. His home is the likeliest place, or the home of some other sordid associate. Is my guess anyhow. Stranger things have happened. The perp who took Jacob Wetterling did take him to a field to do whatever to him, and killed him there so anything is possible.

 

[worldwatcher]

About the mass child case there is a discussion about tougher punishment (was just on the ZDF news)
I do hope that EU will set up some protocol for this (database etc)

 

[MENDEL]

Yes, however, if you knew people would be carrying kids back from the kids club you could easily be considered as doing just that if you were seen by other people.
A car right next to the appt, through the window, into the back seat or boot- risky - but we know CB took risks, so equally feasible.

Ted, that's not the same thing as a child being kept by a parent. Child is kidnapped by a strange so unlikely to be sleeping on his shoulder. I can't imagine a kidnapper risking wander with a child in a place with lots of people.

 

[MENDEL]

Yes, however, if you knew people would be carrying kids back from the kids club you could easily be considered as doing just that if you were seen by other people.
A car right next to the appt, through the window, into the back seat or boot- risky - but we know CB took risks, so equally feasible.

The only circumstance I would consider that in my hypothetical fictional police book would be if the child wasn't kidnapped by a stranger...

 

[worldwatcher]

I doubt he put the kid in the backseat. He'd want to be able to control her in the event she woke up prematurely. He would wanna make sure she couldn't sit up and start screaming / drawing attention to herself, which she surely would have. So, where would he go that would be quiet and secluded so he could do whatever he had planned? A quiet beach? Risky - people MIGHT show up and walk past / notice something. His home is the likeliest place, or the home of some other sordid associate. Is my guess anyhow. Stranger things have happened. The perp who took Jacob Wetterling did take him to a field to do whatever to him, and killed him there so anything is possible.

I remember seeing a childseat in one of the pictures.
Here it is:EXCLUSIVE: Footage of property where paedophile and suspect Christian Brueckner lived in the months after Madeleine McCann disappeared from Portugal - Olive Press News Spain
(removed the pic, due to ©)
The picture can be found in the link

 

[tedtink]

Ted, that's not the same thing as a child being kept by a parent. Child is kidnapped by a strange so unlikely to be sleeping on his shoulder. I can't imagine a kidnapper risking wander with a child in a place with lots of people.

I understand what you mean, but I can't imagine a rapist doing what CB did to the 72 year old, but he did it! We have to try to get into his head - he was a huge risk taker- You're saying if you wrote a book............ but you're not him, you're not a psychopath, you don't think like he does,you would plan it better and so would I as we would be risk averse - But we are not CB imo

 

[Anxala]

So, those sightings must be false leads, wrong persons, illusion, lies, and so on.

The abduction notion itself has always caused me 'logic' problems, let alone the idea that the abductor was casually strolling about with MM in his arms.

I guess we'll have to just wait and see where this investigation goes.

 

[tedtink]

I remember seeing a childseat in one of the pictures.
Here it is:EXCLUSIVE: Footage of property where paedophile and suspect Christian Brueckner lived in the months after Madeleine McCann disappeared from Portugal - Olive Press News Spain
(removed the pic, due to ©)
The picture can be found in the link

Is that not a baby seat? Wouldn't a 4 year old be too big for this?

 

[photographer4]

Ted, that's not the same thing as a child being kept by a parent. Child is kidnapped by a strange so unlikely to be sleeping on his shoulder. I can't imagine a kidnapper risking wander with a child in a place with lots of people.

I can imagine CB doing this, and enjoying it. If he knew the location and had taken pains to plan this out (which I believe he did), then it wouldn't be that hard. He'd know the place where she was sleeping with her siblings. He'd know the parent's pattern and routine. He probably wore a wig and clothes he wouldn't normally wear so he wouldn't be easily recognized anyhow. Just because the kid being carried away didn't have the same pj's on as MM had when she went to bed doesn't mean this wasn't her. It wouldn't be hard to switch the pjs if the kid was asleep. It would not be hard to put something over the pjs to disguise the ones she was wear (eg: frilly socks added might look like frilly pj pants). If part of the thrill for him was the risk of getting caught, he probably was pretty thrilled about it if he walked past people who could have helped and had no idea they should.

 

[MENDEL]

I understand what you mean, but I can't imagine a rapist doing what CB did to the 72 year old, but he did it! We have to try to get into his head - he was a huge risk taker- You're saying if you wrote a book............ but you're not him, you're not a psychopath, you don't think like he does,you would plan it better and so would I as we would be risk averse - But we are not CB imo

Well, none of us indeed

But we must try to think like a criminal and one thing all criminals avoid is risk. We're not absolutely sure it was CB. But one thing we can be sure, this was quite well planned, so I wouldn't consider "not-well-planned" scenarios.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

No over-the-counter drug is strong enough to knock a child out instantly, and it's highly unlikely he sat with her while it took effect. It's much more likely he told her he was from the restaurant and taking her to her mummy. Or (less likely imo) he used chloroform or similar.

 

[SuperdadV8]

I was hoping one of our German speakers would be able to pick up on it

Looking forward to the broadcast in about 20 minutes here in germany. Will report asap, if there will be new revelations!

 

[worldwatcher]

Is that not a baby seat? Wouldn't a 4 year old be too big for this?

Maybe the seat can be adjust? Or it was for the Foster kids from that couple?
They had two kids, a young one and teenager. Either way, I found it weird...

 

[MENDEL]

Looking forward to the broadcast in about 20 minutes here in germany. Will report asap, if there will be new revelations!

Cool.

Is there a link to see it streaming?

 

[tedtink]

Well, none of us indeed

But we must try to think like a criminal and one thing all criminals avoid is risk. We're not absolutely sure it was CB. But one thing we can be sure, this was quite well planned, so I wouldn't consider "not-well-planned" scenarios.

I think when carrying out his fantasy the psychopathic drive of egoism, machiavellianism, moral disengagement, narcissism, psychological entitlement, sadism, self-interest, and spitefulness, would have over ridden any sense of risk imo.

 

[worldwatcher]

Looking forward to the broadcast in about 20 minutes here in germany. Will report asap, if there will be new revelations!

TY, that's a weight from my shoulders!
My German is okay but not my native tongue

 

[Dlk79]

No over-the-counter drug is strong enough to knock a child out instantly, and it's highly unlikely he sat with her while it took effect. It's much more likely he told her he was from the restaurant and taking her to her mummy. Or (less likely imo) he used chloroform or similar.

I originally wondered about this possibility of the abductor speaking to her and making some kind of comment like this. The way the blanket on MM's bed was pictured looks like it would as if she got up by herself, pulling back the corner, turning her legs to the side and getting up. Whereas you'd think if someone took her out of bed the blanket would be pulled completely back. Could someone have just pulled up the shutters, reached inside to the pulley to hold the shutters in place and then called MM over to them under some pretence? Wouldn’t even need to enter the apartment, just lift her through the window.

 

[SuperdadV8]

Cool.

Is there a link to see it streaming?

Maybe no live stream, but will be to watch here pretty soon after the broadcast!

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