Madonna Angers the Vatican

[windovervocalcords]

Wind
What's the name of that book that the expression 'grok' comes from??
I can't think of it right now, it may come back though...
It's the only time I've ever heard it, besides you saying it now!!
It was about a guy who got stuck on Earth......came from someowhere else in the galaxy..

To stay on topic- Madonna is 'camp', thats why the gays all love her.

Exactly, Madonna IS camp.

A Queen among queens, Madonna always returns to the comfort of her core audience when the chips are down and the stakes are high. Over twenty years into an unprecedented, never-let-up pop superstar career, she continues on her merry way, doing her own thing, uncompromising and defiant as ever. In those two decades the one constant has been Madonna's presence and relevance.

Appropriately entitled Confessions on a Dance Floor, the album more than lives up to its moniker, featuring a seamless, non-stop collection of delicious dance pop. The beat hardly ever slackens, and it's a timeless testament to Madonna that she can still boogie-woogie with the best of them.

This record is a mighty resurrection—both for Madonna and for dance music as well. Not surprisingly, it's never been needed more.

As she once sang, "I know a place where you can get away, it's called the dance floor, and here's what it's for."

No one knows that more than Madonna, and nobody does it better.

http://www.alanilagan.com/articles/madonnaconfessions2.php

 

[Dark Knight]

I think the crucifix reference is offensive to some Christians because Madonna is substituting herself for Jesus and many Christians consider Jesus the Savior of the World and are appalled at the idea of Madonna as Savior of the World. It strikes them as sacriligious, as something that mocks what they consider holy. Another example of this would be in satantic worship where an inverted cross is often one of the symbols used in obvious mockery of the Christian Cross.

I think Madonna's image of herself on a cross is provocative and interesting and worthy of discussion, but I tend to like art that pushes the envelope.

Certainly I can see why some Christians would take umbrage...but that is one of the goals of art - to get a strong reaction.

It is irrelevant who does it. There have been other controversies when people have placed someone other than Christ on the cross, especially with the crown of thorns.

 

[Details]

I'm sorry, but I haven't read any stories about repressed Italian Catholic women stoned when they went to the drugstore to get prozac

Just a little note - just because I'm not being stoned, doesn't mean that any other level of repression is irrelevant or doesn't happen. Sure, there's always worse, and creatures like the Taliban and other primitive traditions to ensure there is always a worse - but that doesn't invalidate other's repression.

 

[Details]

and see this as hate speech[/b]. Will her career be over like Mel Gibsons? Will this dominate the airways and will Hollywood be called upon to shun her? Will there be a call to boycott her recordings and shows?....

Mel Gibson got drunk and says Jews are responsible for all of the wars in the world....

These two are miles apart - and while it's offensive and tasteless, what Madonna is doing is miles away from hate speech - that diminishes the damage that true hate speech, such as what Mel Gibson said, actually does.

Hate speech is denigrating a group of people - not mocking or using their symbolism, but making statements that link to beliefs that a group of people should be wiped off the earth, or at least out of all the good neighborhoods. Burning a cross on a minority's lawn is hate speech, and a symbol of a group that wants to kill minorities or force them out, of a time when any minority could be killed by any white man. Saying that the Jews are the problem with the world is hate speech. Putting yourself on a cross and posing as Jesus is merely tacky and offensive - but she's not saying a thing negative about Christians by doing so. Same would go if she posed dressed as Mohammed, Budda, or whatever. Add in negative imagery, and maybe you've got hate speech (bomb materials, pedophelia porn, etc.) - but by itself, she's trying to identify with Jesus and the crucifixtion, which is not at all an attempt to attack christians.

 

[windovervocalcords]

These two are miles apart - and while it's offensive and tasteless, what Madonna is doing is miles away from hate speech - that diminishes the damage that true hate speech, such as what Mel Gibson said, actually does.

Hate speech is denigrating a group of people - not mocking or using their symbolism, but making statements that link to beliefs that a group of people should be wiped off the earth, or at least out of all the good neighborhoods. Burning a cross on a minority's lawn is hate speech, and a symbol of a group that wants to kill minorities or force them out, of a time when any minority could be killed by any white man. Saying that the Jews are the problem with the world is hate speech. Putting yourself on a cross and posing as Jesus is merely tacky and offensive - but she's not saying a thing negative about Christians by doing so. Same would go if she posed dressed as Mohammed, Budda, or whatever. Add in negative imagery, and maybe you've got hate speech (bomb materials, pedophelia porn, etc.) - but by itself, she's trying to identify with Jesus and the crucifixtion, which is not at all an attempt to attack christians.

Well stated--

 

[southcitymom]

It is irrelevant who does it. There have been other controversies when people have placed someone other than Christ on the cross, especially with the crown of thorns.

Yes, I agree, that many people would consider this irreverent if it was ANYONE, not just Madonna, other than Christ on the Cross.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Have we seen ANY art with Christ and Christian themes lately that hasn't been controversial to someone?

This should be comforting to the faithful. Doesn't this demonstrate the power of the Divine to stir the masses? Haven't the faithful been further strengthened by their clarification of what is and is not irreverent?

Christians and Muslims are UNITED in their condemnation of Madonna. Isn't it great that Christians and Muslims are united about something?

Madonna is doing her art in ignorance of its harm to others or she is doing it out of anger.

The words Christ spoke on the cross were, "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do." Even while suffering his concern was for those who were harming him, the sinners. His attitude was humble, soft and loving.

I think He would be equally kind toward all disciples who are disturbed by Madonna. He would have equal regard toward those who agree with Him and those who do not. He was not condemning of those who harmed him. .

 

[Reader]

Have we seen ANY art with Christ and Christian themes lately that hasn't been controversial to someone?

This should be comforting to the faithful. Doesn't this demonstrate the power of the Divine to stir the masses? Haven't the faithful been further strengthened by their clarification of what is and is not irreverent?

Christians and Muslims are UNITED in their condemnation of Madonna. Isn't it great that Christians and Muslims are united about something?

Madonna is doing her art in ignorance of its harm to others or she is doing it out of anger.

The words Christ spoke on the cross were, "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do." Even while suffering his concern was for those who were harming him, the sinners. His attitude was humble, soft and loving.

I think He would be equally kind toward all disciples who are disturbed by Madonna. He would have equal regard toward those who agree with Him and those who do not. He was not condemning of those who harmed him. .

Great post!

 

[windovervocalcords]

Hehehe
Love it
Ya gotta admire someone that's that on themself LOL

Whoops, you are fast or psychic!

"What's the difference between a pop star and a terrorist? You can negotiate with a terrorist," jokes Madonna, poking fun at herself.

 

[narlacat]

You're hilarious wind
It's like...stop that lol :hand:
I was just following suit

 

[narlacat]

Priest tries bomb hoax to stop Madonna concert

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=143041

How very Christian of him lol, blow up thy neighbour