Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #1

[CARIIS]

The picture and it's context were confirmed by the major press agencies (afp, nbc)
The militia were picking through belongings at a crash site.

What happened to the passports, the credit cards, the money and valuables that were on the site?
Nobody knows because the militia did not allow access to OSCE.

This guy is awesome Noah Sneider, he was first reporter (he was close by) at the scene......
Here is one of his phone calls to CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash-scene/

when asked about looting --- sorry his answer was.........There is nothing to loot off the passengers, they were torn to shreds ------many of them are inside out..............noone would TOUCH anything I have seen thus far

He calls in on CNN, and is very good at describing what he is seeing. his first call he was pretty upset about what he was seeing, smelling etc

They were "undressed by the air"…

ground littered w human skeletons and plane fragments.

"I've never seen anything like it," one local rebel fighter tells me. "You look down and see ears, fingers, bones."

...Impossible to comprehend.

organs splayed out. Too gruesome to post photographs. This is an absolute disaster.

https://twitter.com/NoahSneider

some are intact

…From another persona at site per Time. However there were a couple of pics that some might not want to see

…….they had no trouble accessing the crash site, as there were very few people in the area at the time. Yet the rebels soon arrived, and they initially gave Sessini trouble, taking his memory card away. Eventually returned it and allowed Sessini to take photographs.

[What I saw] was horrific, almost unreal,” he says. In addition to the charred wreckage and debris of the destroyed Boeing 777 plane, there were bodies strewn across the fields. Some were still attached to their seats. “I was in shock. I don’t think I ever felt so sick.”
More than a hundred bodies have been found so far, with some located as far as 6.2 miles (10 km) away from the crash site. “I found one body that went through the roof of a house and landed in someone’s bedroom,” says Sessini. “It’s a real nightmare.”
for the seasoned photographer, one of the hardest sights to take in wasn’t the dead themselves, but the mementos from their lives, strewn across the ground. “One of the saddest part was to see all of their luggage in the grass,” he says. “All these Duty Free bags, the swimsuits, the children’s books.”

Read more: Malaysia Airlines Ukraine Crash: Jerome Sessini Photographs - LightBox http://lightbox.time.com/2014/07/18/malaysia-airline-ukraine-crash-jerome-sessini/#ixzz37rAAJ2hk

We keep hearing stuff like More than 180 bodies recovered what does that mean in this context - it usually means like recovered means recovered......................

 

[ZaZara]

The planes that fly over my house are just under cruising altitude and I can tell by the tail colors what airline it is.
Granted, I mostly see WestJet and Air Canada flying overhead, so it's easy for me to tell which is which.

But military personnel would be in possession of military radar, so IMO, they should have been able to see MH17 on their radar and see that it was a civilian plane.

BBM
Alledgedly the militia could not see that this was a civilian plane, because they appear only to have one radar and not the communications equipment needed to identify signals from a plane.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/separatist-links-malaysia-airlines-mh17-removed

"A radar return from an airplane like this would look very similar to that from a cargo plane, as was initially claimed by the separatists. If radar was all they were using, that is a shame," he said. "All airliners emit identification signals which identify the aircraft and provide other information like altitude and speed. They also operate on known communications frequencies. It doesn't sound like the separatists were using any of this.

"My guess is the system's radar saw a return from a big 'cargo' plane flying at 30,000 feet or so and either automatically fired, or some aggressive, itchy operator fired, not wanting to miss an opportunity."

Latiff said that if they had only one radar, as Ukrainian officials suggest, it would have been pointed at the target. A second, rotating one would normally have been part of a battery to pick up other planes in the immediate vicinity, but he said even that would not have established whether it was a commercial plane and there would normally have been communications equipment to pick up signals showing the plane was non-military.

BBM

Although it does not make any difference to those who died and all the ones they left behind, if MH17 was fired at by someone who HAD indentified it as a civilian plane, the implications would be even more horrible.

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

'Igor Girkin, a local pro-Russian military commander who had appeared to acknowledge his forces shot down the Boeing 777 in a Facebook posting later deleted, was tonight quoted in the Russian media suggesting that the jet had been deliberately loaded with corpses and crashed to damage the rebel cause.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...the-gruesome-scene-for-survivors-9615895.html

For heaven's sake. First a soldier told a BBC producer the Queen of England was responsible, now the commander is suggesting all the nations of the victims are involved in some vast conspiracy, pretending their citizens are dead when really the plane was only carrying corpses.

These men are an embarrasment to their cause, and their nation, whatever it is. In my opinion.

 

[time]

I do think there is a big difference between being a separatist and being a terrorist. The role of a separatist is to fight the military and unfortunately there are civilian causalities that are not specifically targeted. The role of a terrorist is to kill as many civilians as they can in one single act. The attack that occurred on American soil, just as an attack on any country's soil or territory, would be considered a declaration of war. Has been that way since recorded time. To defend yourself would be expected. In this case it appears the separatist thought they were shooting down a military plane. It does not appear that they intended to shoot down a civilian aircraft. However their actions after the fact will do nothing to help their cause, I might imagine.

If they claim they just captured this equipment then who trained them in how to use it. Because it appears they have been using it for awhile.

See ZaZara's post #830 with the video. JMO

I agree with the first paragraph. However, I do not see how it matters where they got it or who trained them since there are not terrorists.

And, again, I'm a bit surprised passenger airlines were not more cautious about where they were flying in the Ukraine.... come on, we all know wars escalate and the artillery can possibly get bigger and more dangerous.

 

[ZaZara]

Do you have a link for this?

All in the original posting!

 

[zwiebel]

Someone just called and told me a Russian Commander from the area has been recalled to Moscow and 'asked' to resign. Anyone seen that anywhere in the media?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

You know what .. watching our politicians act all tough with Putin is an embarrassment .. I don't think I can read any more reports of Aussies puffing up their chests over this one. As per usual it seems that we're just going to follow along like good little puppy dogs into whatever conflict arises from this, I hope we don't engage with Russia, because let me tell you if we open that can of worms the Chinese could get involved and Australia will become a suburb of Beijing.

 

[time]

All in the original posting!

You mean this post?

From the twitter of Dutch journalist Saskia Dekkers:



Translation:



View attachment 55135

One picture says it all. Villains!

If so, I spent about 10 minutes trying to track down the source and context. If not, could you please post a link again?

 

[gngr~snap]

“Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and loved ones of those on board flight MH17, and INTERPOL has offered its full assistance to all relevant member countries to help identify and repatriate their remains with dignity to their home countries,” said Secretary General Noble

. http://www.interpol.int/News-and-media/News/2014/N2014-132

 

[time]

Never mind, I found a link:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/uk...ts-pick-through-debris-jet-crash-site-n159671

 

[Tssiemer]

How did all that stuff survive the crash? Where are the scorch marks?

Never mind. Jumped in too quick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jellybeanz]

On the ABC news last night they said that the separatists seized the Buk from the Ukraine's in the hours before the plane was shot down .. do you think I can find anything online to support that? Nope. Looking around I did find an interesting article on the Buk however, and what is likely to happen to it now, ie driven into Russia and destroyed: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lls-claim-PROVES-Russia-shot-Flight-MH17.html

The other thing, there is a lot of talk about how this is a Russian built piece of weaponry, which is not such a big deal, since Russia's built weapons are used by everyone involved ie Russia, the Separatists, and the Ukrainians.

I'm thinking Putin is getting a bit of a bum rap .. I know he's been supporting this conflict because it suits his own agenda, but he may not have 'supplied' the rebels with this missile .. they may have stolen it from the Ukrainians.

Still catching up on todays news etc, so all of the above may be completely off the mark.

Yes, I read about that yesterday somewhere. I also saw a video uploaded to liveleak showing a BUK system leaving the area down a main road. There are photos of the BUK in a residential area taking cover against a residential building floating about too.

It sure sounds to me like CNN is trying to blame the rebels for everything now. I don't know why they would be driving around shooting at homes. That really doesn't do them any good.

They would be shooting upon their own people if that is the case, which is not computing in my mind.

 

[gngr~snap]

Anyone know how to get the weather (temperature last wo days and forecast) of the crash site since it crashed. There are reports about decomposition (seems fast?). If accurate and its hot – it is going to become a bio hazard site. It’s not like as far as we know ANY “stuff” is heading out to site

….In US air crash in Pittsburg crash they had wear biohazard suits, I vividly remember reading that – it freaked me out.

. The workers wore protective clothing and were decontaminated when they left the site.....

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/09/10/u...scene-destruction-leaves-emergency-crews.html

It also seems like they could (on the second call released where they called the killing machine a “beauty) they would know if the call was between two terrorists OR a terrorist and someone in Russia??

I also wondered if anyone from the west that goes to the site might be in personal danger

Jul 18, 2014, 9:07pm Local Time

TodayJul 19
84°F

71°F

PM T-Storms

CHANCE OF RAIN:60% WIND:NE at 9 mph

Details

SunJul 20
88°

69°

Isolated T-Storms

CHANCE OF RAIN:30% WIND:NE at 10 mph

http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/Snizhne+Ukraine+UPRK1096

 

[SnoopyDawgDawg]

This guy is awesome Noah Sneider, he was first reporter (he was closebye) when asked about looting --- sorry his answer was.........There is nothing to loot off the passengers, they were torn to shreds ------many of them are inside out..............noone would TOUCH anything I have seen thus far

He calls in on CNN, and is very good at describing what he is seeing his first call he was pretty upset about what he was seeing, smelling etc

That's like the young fellow reporting yesterday for CBS. For the life of me I cannot remember his name, but I want to say Wadley? God bless him, he was so shaken up by what he was seeing that he could barely speak, coupled with the fact that he was being escorted by rebel forces, apparently.

I know these reporters are used to seeing far more than the average citizen sees, but for their sakes I hope every one of them seeks counseling after witnessing and reporting on this carnage.

Edit: It was ABC, not CBS. Sorry.

 

[ZaZara]

This guy is awesome Noah Sneider, he was first reporter (he was closebye) when asked about looting --- sorry his answer was.........There is nothing to loot off the passengers, they were torn to shreds ------many of them are inside out..............noone would TOUCH anything I have seen thus far

He calls in on CNN, and is very good at describing what he is seeing his first call he was pretty upset about what he was seeing, smelling etc

Hi CARIIS, these journalists are true heroes!
I follow HarrietSalem on twitter, she reports for The Guardian.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-found-as-anger-at-russia-mounts-live-updates

There have been mentions and pictures about the luggage being looted. There was at least one picture with a pile of European passports, one wonders where they all have gone.

 

[sorrell skye]

Someone just called and told me a Russian Commander from the area has been recalled to Moscow and 'asked' to resign. Anyone seen that anywhere in the media?

https://twitter.com/rorychallandsAJ....html&tw_i=490183235486646273&tw_p=tweetembed

@rorychallandsAJ Did he jump or was he pushed? Denis Pushilin, Donetsk People's Republic chairman resigns while in Moscow, according to Interfax/Kommersant.

 

[zwiebel]

Did he fall or was he pushilined?

'Denis Pushilin, a rebel leader in the restive Donetsk region in Ukraine, resigned from his post on Friday night.

“Dennis is now in Moscow. He sent a letter addressed to me with a request for resignation from his post at his own request. In the council session, the question was put to the vote. MPs supported Pushilin’s resign,” vice-speaker Vladimir Makovich told Interfax Russia.

Pushilin was described as “chairman” of the Donetsk “Supreme Council.” He’s also been described as the leader of the insurgent, self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic.'

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/806703-denis-pushilin-ukraine-rebel-leader-resigns-now-in-moscow/

 

[zwiebel]

https://twitter.com/rorychallandsAJ....html&tw_i=490183235486646273&tw_p=tweetembed

Did he jump or was he pushed? Denis Pushilin, Donetsk People's Republic chairman resigns while in Moscow, according to Interfax/Kommersant.

I cannot believe we both made the same pun at the same time.

 

[pghbrandi]

I'm watching CCN live via my Xfinity cable subscription, therefore, I can't provide a link. Apologies to those who have requested a link.

I'm a fan of links, as well, so that I can read/hear it myself, so I fully understand.

I'm very careful to only post information from mainstream media sources in order to avoid rumors. In my posting history here on WS, I've always been careful to post accurate information.

Anyone can choose to accept or reject anything I post.

I was watching CNN earlier and saw that report also.

 

[sorrell skye]

I cannot believe we both made the same pun at the same time.

I wish I could take credit for the witty pun, but it was Rory Challands.