Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #1

[ilovepierre]

I saw that photo too and wondered why there were so many grouped together, seemingly unmarred.

They were probably collected at the crash site and put into a pile.

 

[LambChop]

Okay folks, let's take those political comments regarding the USA and other countries down to the basement area where they belong. This is very tragic so let's stay on topic. MSM quotes are fine but if the post get's too political regarding responses they are going bye-bye. Let's all pray that the separatist move back and allow the investigators to do their jobs. Too late to try and cover up now. We all want this to be done right and hope that a cease fire takes place.

Thanks

 

[ilovepierre]

On a side note - I'm waiting for the conspiracy theories to emerge that this was the planned "disposal" of the 777-200 airframe (MRO) that was previously flown as MH370 *rolls eyes*:drumroll:

Is this plane (MH17) the same make as MH370?
I know ther're both 777's, but are they the same 777 model?
FWIW, I am not a conspiracy theorist, just wondering if these planes are the same make/model?

 

[sorrell skye]

Oh dear God - CNN reporting that the separatist rebels have just massacred at least 20 civilians in a town near the debris field.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Oh dear God - CNN reporting that the separatist rebels have just massacred at least 20 civilians in a town near the debris field.

:tears:

:hearno:

The situation seems likely to deteriorate :moo:

:sigh:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ilovepierre]

The plane came down after two explosions, locals say.

“It fell down it pieces,” said Zhenia, 21-year-old miner, standing by his motorbike and pointing at the place in the sky where it happened.


“The dead bodies were falling everywhere, even in the village,” said his friend Kolia, 25, also a miner.


“Initially I thought it was a paratrooper descending from the plane but then realized that there were people falling from the sky in passenger seats,” said one of the rebels – Vladimir, 45, holding a Kalashnikov in his hands and standing at one of the checkpoints organized by separatists on the way to plane’s crash.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-found-as-anger-at-russia-mounts-live-updates

there is a map that shows the area where debris has been found.

How tragic!

 

[ilovepierre]

Sorry I am not gonna blame MAL on this. It was a civilian aircraft. If the rebels don't even know what they are shooting (whether it was a plane, car, person, baby), it just shows how trigger happy they are. This has got to stop.

No, it's not MAL's fault, but it is a tad strange that two planes from their airline have been involved in incidents this year.
Is there a connection? Part of me says no, but there's still another part that says yes.

 

[ilovepierre]

If it's flying at 32,000 feet, I don't think you are going to notice what it looks like. As for "no way" it's been done before a number of times. Even US itself accidentally shot a civilian plane. Ukraine did as well.

Wouldn't the military radar on the ground show that there is a civilian jet in their airspace though?
I see planes flying overhead all the time, and I can distinguish between different airlines and what planes are commercial jets and which ones are private planes. And this is at cruising altitude or close to it anyways.
IMO, whoever shot this plane down, knew it was a civilian plane.

 

[Supernovae]

OMG. The children. The children.

I hope President Putin gets eaten by a bear. The Russian Bear. It slumbers long and deep and endures the worst of treatments, but when it wakes, it has no mercy.

Those children were travelling back home to Australia with their Grandfather. The parents had decided to stay behind in Amsterdam for a few more days, but the children had to go back for school.

 

[Supernovae]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ee-grandchildren-perished-MH17-blown-sky.html

 

[CARIIS]

The Chief of the Ukrainian Security Service, Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, said: “This is not the last proof that we are going to publish, with the authorisation from the Ukrainian president, in order to open all possible channels and have an unbiased investigation of this crime, to make sure that the Russian military who committed this crime, are going to be punished.”

http://www.euronews.com/2014/07/18/ukraine-claims-recorded-phone-calls-prove-separatists-shot-down-malaysian-/

The first recording:
The men are heard saying in Russian:
- It’s actually a civilian plane. – Are there many people? – Lots! Debris has fallen on houses. – What type of plane was it? – I don’t know yet, I haven’t been to the (crash) site. – Weapons on it? – Nothing, just civilian stuff, medical material, towels, toilet paper. – Documents? – Yes, the passport of an Indonesian student.
same link

This struck me as unique in terms of this being a prevalent thing seen at crash site medical material -- AIDS conferance?

 

[jjenny]

Wouldn't the military radar on the ground show that there is a civilian jet in their airspace though?
I see planes flying overhead all the time, and I can distinguish between different airlines and what planes are commercial jets and which ones are private planes. And this is at cruising altitude or close to it anyways.
IMO, whoever shot this plane down, knew it was a civilian plane.

You think you can distinguish between different airlines on planes flying at 32,000 feet?

 

[jjenny]

Oh dear God - CNN reporting that the separatist rebels have just massacred at least 20 civilians in a town near the debris field.

I don't see anything like that reported by CNN.

 

[sorrell skye]

Happy to be proven wrong with evidence later but right now, I doubt Putin supplied them with such weaponry. Putin isn't that stupid. He knows people are watching this civil war. He has different political interests involved. That's why I think he is just supplying enough for the rebels to get by without them pestering him and without people noticing too much. Maybe that's why, on the tape, those rebels were checking for weapons (maybe better weaponry)

From a report this afternoon:

But a senior defense official told CNN that the "working theory" among U.S. intelligence analysts is that the Russian military supplied the Buk missile system to rebel fighters inside Ukraine.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html

Although it hasn't been confirmed definitively, and I think President Obama and other world leaders are being cautious with their words until solid evidence is gathered, I trust that U.S. intelligence analysts have good reason to support their "working theory" that the Buk missile system was supplied to the separatists by Russia.

For obvious reasons, world leaders don't wish to enflame the situation any further by pointing the finger at Moscow right now, which I think is a wise decision given the volatile situation. It's possible that it's already been confirmed that the Buk did, indeed, come from Russia, but that information is perhaps being kept under wraps in order to give Putin an opportunity to save face so that he'll take the necessary action to de-escalate the tensions.

It's an extremely delicate situation and the last thing anybody wants is for Putin to feel that he's being backed against the wall on a world stage and accused by other heads of State.

Personally, I'll be surprised if the public ever truly learns who specifically supplied the Buk missile system to the separatists, for the reasons I mentioned above.

 

[ZaZara]

From the twitter of Dutch journalist Saskia Dekkers:

Saskia Dekkers @saskiadekkers · 8 min

Separatisten doorzoeken spullen slachtoffers. Via Franse @AFPphoto: Un milicien pro-Russe brandit une pluche

Translation:

Separatists rummage through the belongings of the victims. Via French @AFPphoto: A pro-Russina militiaman brandishes a plush toy animal

One picture says it all. Villains!

 

[sorrell skye]

I don't see anything like that reported by CNN.

I was watching CNN live and that was what a correspondent on the ground was reporting to CNN.

 

[gngr~snap]

'One of the corpses fell through the rickety roof of Irina Tipunova’s house in this sleepy village...

“There was a howling noise and everything started to rattle. Then objects started falling out of the sky,” the 65-year-old pensioner said...

“And then I heard a roar and she landed in the kitchen, the roof was broken,” she said, showing the gaping hole made by the body when it came through the ceiling of the kitchen in an extension to the house.

The dead woman’s naked body was still lying inside the house, next to a bed.'

Villagers (as is usual I believe) have been told to leave bodies where they are until investigators can collect them. There were reports like this about the Lockerbie bombing in Scotland too. One poor woman spent three days having to step over a body outside her front door. A local farmer was so moved by an infant's body out on a hill, he picked it up in a lamb sack and took it to police.

- See more at: http://www.themalaymailonline.com/m...d-down-on-ukraine-village-after-mh17-disaster

Nope. No way. I don't know what I would do, but nobody is going go lie in my home and decompose. I'd be flipping out!!!

*note to self* if a body falls through the roof move it outdoors and cover it, before telling anyone what happened.

 

[CARIIS]

The Chief of the Ukrainian Security Service, Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, said: “This is not the last proof that we are going to publish, with the authorisation from the Ukrainian president, in order to open all possible channels and have an unbiased investigation of this crime, to make sure that the Russian military who committed this crime, are going to be punished.”

http://www.euronews.com/2014/07/18/...calls-prove-separatists-shot-down-malaysian-/

 

[jjenny]

I was watching CNN live and that was what a correspondent on the ground was reporting to CNN.

I can't find a single link to support this idea.

 

[sorrell skye]

You think you can distinguish between different airlines on planes flying at 32,000 feet?

I can't even see a plane at 33,000 feet, let alone distinguish whether or not it's a commercial airliner or a military plane. At a lower altitude - maybe, but certainly not that high up.