Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #2

[panthera]

This is so incredibly heart breaking. I lost my 22 year old son due to an auto accident 10 years ago. His death was 3am Thursday an I was able to visit privately at the funeral home that Friday at 3pm. The 36 hour wait was interminable. I don't think I would survive what these people are going through!

As heartbreaking as what we are witnessing in the Ukraine is, with the way the bodies, and the victims' possessions are being handled, at least the families know what happened to their loved ones. The families of the passengers and crew aboard MH370 still, after four months, have no clue. I had read one relative's statement regarding a family from Australia, one of whom was on MH370 and one who was aboard MH17 and the statement was that not knowing is the worst thing.

With that said, however, it must be horrific for them, especially to know how they perished.



MOO

 

[gramcracker]

IMO it was an act of aggression against an (un)intended target, ie: military craft like the others they recently shot down. which I don't think translates as terrorism, regardless of the outcome. and I think the misuse/overuse of a term like terrorism devalues its meaning

 

[i.b.nora]

Tweet from Simon_Cullen (of @ABCNews):

The Fed Govt is considering declaring the #MH17 tragedy as a "terrorist act". If it does, families would be eligible for compensation

http://twitter.com/Simon_Cullen/status/491027767098482689

To whom it may concern, the reporter Simon Cullen is with the Australian Broadcasting Company. He is reporting on the Australian government. It has nothing to do with the United States.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Why doesn't the Australian government just give the families compensation anyway, you know .. to the same level as they would have for terrorism, like, you know, because it's the decent thing to do?

 

[panthera]

IMO it was an act of aggression against an (un)intended target, ie: military craft like the others they recently shot down. which I don't think translates as terrorism, regardless of the outcome. and I think the misuse/overuse of a term like terrorism devalues its meaning

Sabotage may be a more correct term than terrorism. It certainly wasn't an aviation accident, as in pilot error, mechanical failure, etc. and even if the intended target wasn't a civilian aircraft, a missile was launched which hit and destroyed the aircraft causing 298 deaths.

MOO

 

[Gardenlady]

Why doesn't the Australian government just give the families compensation anyway, you know .. to the same level as they would have for terrorism, like, you know, because it's the decent thing to do?

That's what I was wondering when I was under the impression it was the US govt. same thing now - cant all our govts just make sure their respective victims are compensated? Whether or not things ever get settled to the point of receiving compensation from the actual responsible parties (which realistically could be years down the road) is beside the point. We should take care of our victims and their families immediately simply because it's the right thing to do.

 

[ElleElle]

IMO it was an act of aggression against an (un)intended target, ie: military craft like the others they recently shot down. which I don't think translates as terrorism, regardless of the outcome. and I think the misuse/overuse of a term like terrorism devalues its meaning

Hate to say it but, "terrorism" = innocent lives lost combined with lack of remorse and pure intention.

JMO.

 

[atthelake]

Please remember that each of the countries who lost citizens on this flight consider themselves as victims, too. Keeping that in mind, take any political agendas that you need to express down into the forum that was created for that purpose. Political remarks about any and all countries and their government policies do not belong here. This is a discussion about what happened to this flight and of those who were involved in the destruction of this aircraft and it's occupants.

Great idea and timely! Can someone or a mod share the link for us all to do such. Having a hard time with the new forum.

TIA

 

[Steely Dan]

Translation of Kremlin article.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.kremlin.ru/news/46262&langpair=ru|en&ie=UTF8

Wow Putin's got a lot of cajones.

Do you mean this one?

View attachment 55246

 

[jellybeanz]

Do you mean this one?

View attachment 55246

Yes, thats it. Thanks.

 

[LambChop]

Great idea and timely! Can someone or a mod share the link for us all to do such. Having a hard time with the new forum.

TIA

It is in the basement. Click on the Forum button at the top and scroll all the way down to Private Forums. It's a couple of threads down. Not hard to find at all. Please do not link to this site. It is for members only.

 

[momrids6]

[h=1]Warning: graphic:

Why Were Some Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Victims Found Without Their Clothes?[/h]People who have chosen to look at (or unfortunately stumbled across) the very graphic photos of the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 may have found themselves focusing on one particularly upsetting detail: Many of the passengers' bodies were missing their clothing.

<snip>
"The airplane most likely had a rapid decompression which, at those altitudes, would make you pass out." That, combined with "the G-forces of the airplane spinning around probably meant, mercifully, that most of these people weren't conscious on the way down."

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/why-were-mh17-victims-missing-their-clothes.html

 

[2rose]

FBI definition of International Terrorism
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/terrorism/terrorism-definition

Please read the above link and it explains how the government defines terrorism.

This is how the American government defines the term, but since this incident happened on another continent, the European definition might be slightly different. As will their insurance policies.

Usually when I think of a terrorist act, I think that a large part of it is an intention
to instill FEAR in an international population. But I don't think that intent existed
in the downing of MH17 ... it seems their intent was to down a MILITARY plane.
So might they determine this incident was a casualty of civil war ?

During wartime, small casualty numbers are usually an accepted factor, but what is
unusual in this circumstance is the LARGE number of innocent international civilians.

 

[ElleElle]

"The United States, meanwhile, presented what it called "powerful" evidence that the rebels shot down the plane with a Russian surface-to-air missile and training. Although other governments have stopped short of accusing Russia of actually causing the crash, the U.S. was ahead of most in pointing blame on Moscow for the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 that killed all 298 people aboard."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malays...-boxcars-mother-makes-plea-to-putin-1.2712459

 

[ElleElle]

"Drunken separatists are stacking bodies"

Kerry expressed outrage at the "grotesque" behaviour of the rebels at the crash scene.

"Drunken separatists are stacking bodies into the back of trucks, removing materials from the site," he told ABC's This Week. "On Friday, we had 75 minutes of access to the site; on Saturday, three hours of access. This is an insult to everybody."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malays...-boxcars-mother-makes-plea-to-putin-1.2712459

 

[ElleElle]

Meanwhile in Canada...

"Air Canada Flight AC1174 mayday ends in safe landing
None of the 93 people on board were injured on flight to Toronto from Edmonton"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/air-canada-flight-ac1174-mayday-ends-in-safe-landing-1.2712504

 

[Snick1946]

Did I dream it or didn't Kerry make a statement within the past few hours that the US has evidence this plane was shot down by a missle fired from WITHIN RUSSIA? I think I heard this on Sky News out of the UK, I downstream their coverage.

OMG that would be something!

 

[CARIIS]

Warning: graphic:

Why Were Some Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Victims Found Without Their Clothes?

People who have chosen to look at (or unfortunately stumbled across) the very graphic photos of the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 may have found themselves focusing on one particularly upsetting detail: Many of the passengers' bodies were missing their clothing.

<snip>
"The airplane most likely had a rapid decompression which, at those altitudes, would make you pass out." That, combined with "the G-forces of the airplane spinning around probably meant, mercifully, that most of these people weren't conscious on the way down."

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/why-were-mh17-victims-missing-their-clothes.html

wow guys--the video ElleElle shared last night, whic was just compelling. There is no doubt about looting. In the video the most compelling was the male still in a chair and his arm up and hand clenched. Well in the pic in this link it appears as if (by this I mean if your looting the least you can do is take the corpse out of chair and loot) they just like kicked the chair went through his stuff and left. In this pic he is no longer upright but it is him his hand is clenched as well .

pretty cruel stuff

 

[CARIIS]

Thanks ZaZara. This was very well written. Clear & concise, and I back up the Dutch!

Advocate: No worries, my typing/spelling skills have currupt the website - its is called CARIIS bug- there is no anti spelling/typing available at this time!!!

 

[CARIIS]

Did I dream it or didn't Kerry make a statement within the past few hours that the US has evidence this plane was shot down by a missle fired from WITHIN RUSSIA? I think I heard this on Sky News out of the UK, I downstream their coverage.

OMG that would be something!

My understanding of this is that he was saying they have satellite images of at least 100 vehicles being moved in the UK. The piece "In" Russia was referring to a training center on the Russian side near the border.