Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #2

[zwiebel]

BBC Radio, which is usually quite good, re blackboxes: '...promised but....it doesn't seem to have happened yet.'

 

[mck16]

Add to the list the Ukrainian military was targeting Putin's presidential jet, but hit the Malaysian plane by mistake.

I also heard this morning they were reporting that the plane was really the missing MH370 that had been flown to a U.S. base and filled with corpses. What idiots. Do the Russian people really believe that kind of horse manure? jmo

 

[Isabelle]

Ahhh! They've put the handover back to 11.30pm! It's only 10pm now.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristopherJM

The time is so confusing. Thanks

 

[kimi_SFC]

Tweet from @CNNi (CNN International) - 6h:

Opinion: President Vladimir Putin now has two options -- and both are dangerous for him: http://t.co/4OgyE0wsMJ #MH17
http://t.co/TdcXfyevZu

http://twitter.com/cnni/status/491320002536947712

Treisman: Vladimir Putin's Big Blunder

(snip)
All must now await the results of the international investigation. If it concludes that the plane was shot down by rebels using a Russian-supplied missile -- or, worse still, by Russians themselves -- the pressure on Putin will become intense. The West, led by President Barack Obama, will demand that he cut off support to the rebels once and for all and seal the border.

If Putin does not do so, tougher economic penalties are almost certain. Already, the latest round of U.S. sanctions, announced on July 17, surprised observers by their severity. They targeted the third and fourth largest Russian banks -- VEB and Gazprombank -- as well as the energy companies Rosneft and Novatek, which are associated with the Putin cronies Igor Sechin and Gennady Timchenko.

Putin will, thus, have two options, both dangerous for his regime.

He could reject the conclusions of the international investigation and stand by the separatists. This would result in serious damage to the Russian economy from sanctions that might now target whole sectors such as banking or energy. Such measures would send the economy -- already forecast by the IMF to grow just 0.2% this year -- into a painful recession.

At the same time, the Kremlin would find itself more internationally isolated than at any time since the end of the Cold War. Not just the U.S. and Britain, but many other countries that were previously friendly or neutral would start to treat Putin as a pariah. And Putin would have to worry that his protégés across the border might commit some new atrocity, provoking the world into even tougher countermeasures.

Editor's Note: Daniel Treisman is a professor of political science at the University of California, Los Angeles, and author of "The Return: Russia's Journey from Gorbachev to Medvedev."

Much more @ link

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[Isabelle]

http://www.timetemperature.com/europe/ukraine_time_zone.shtml

 

[Mrs G Norris]

[h=1]Official statement from Russian Defense Ministry in connection with Boeing 777 crash[/h]
"In view of the objective investigation of the air crash of the Boeing 777 that crashed on the territory of Ukraine, it is necessary to conduct thorough investigation with the involvement of representatives of all interested international organizations. According to the Russian Defense Ministry, there are units of the Ukrainian Armed Forces on the disaster area; the units are armed with anti-aircraft missile systems Buk-M1. In the area of northwestern outskirts of Donetsk, divisions of the 156th anti-aircraft missile regiment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are deployed, with 27 Buk M1 complexes. These complexes, on their tactical and technical characteristics, are capable of detecting air targets at distances of up to 160 kilometers and striking them at all altitudes at a range of over 30 kilometers. Moreover, in the skies over the Donetsk region, aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force equipped with different types of missiles are constantly present. This is an undeniable fact.

http://english.pravda.ru/russia/kremlin/18-07-2014/128078-russian_defense_ministry_boeing-0/

Predictable .. it was the Ukraines .. other articles complaining about how the US is trying to isolate Russia from the world stage at same paper. Putin has a major problem though, his people can find out things he doesn't want them to know .. if kids in North Korea are managing to tune in to the media in South Korea you can be sure the Russian's aren't relying on their local news either.

 

[Bravo]

I also heard this morning they were reporting that the plane was really the missing MH370 that had been flown to a U.S. base and filled with corpses. What idiots. Do the Russian people really believe that kind of horse manure? jmo

I was wondering when that would come up. Russia was on my bucket list. Now NOT!!!! We have friends who flew home yesterday from a Russian Vaycay. I will see her Wed. and cant wait to hear what she has to say. I'm sure she picked up some newspapers.

 

[zwiebel]

I think any hope of an investigation with any integrity is out if the window now. We've seen the chaos just with the blackboxes.

Now I wish that every journo on the scene of the crash had stuffed their pockets with any precious, private possessions of victims, because that was probably the only way they would have got back to relatives.

 

[Gardenlady]

I was about to post this but got slew of alerts on the Abigail Hernandez thread (found safe and reunited with her Mom after 9 long months!)

Sorry for the O/T.....

:blushing:


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WOW - just in from work and tryin to catch up on this thread, now have to put Abby's thread on my list of catching up! Great news!!


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[Isabelle]

BBC Radio, which is usually quite good, re blackboxes: '...promised but....it doesn't seem to have happened yet.'

Wouldn't be surprised to hear Putin has the black boxes.

 

[Bravo]

I think any hope of an investigation with any integrity is out if the window now. We've seen the chaos just with the blackboxes.

Now I wish that every journo on the scene of the crash had stuffed their pockets with any precious, private possessions of victims, because that was probably the only way they would have got back to relatives.

I hope so. Fellow Ontarian was on his way to Bali vacationing with his girlfriend. Studying to be a Dr. abroad such a tragic loss of life. And the Children.......sigh

 

[ZaZara]

Eindhovens Dagblad
http://www.ed.nl/algemeen/binnenland/speciale-repatriëringshal-in-charkov-1.4459256

RIJSWIJK (ANP) - Nederlandse specialisten van het Landelijke Team Forensische Opsporing (LTFO) hebben in Charkov een hal ingericht, van waaruit de repatriëring van slachtoffers van de vliegtuigramp in Oekraïne zal plaatsvinden. Dat liet de politie, waar het LTFO deel van is, maandagavond weten.

De hal ligt volgens Jan Tuinder, het tijdelijk hoofd van de Centrale Coördinatie Oekraïne, ergens tussen het treinstation en het vliegveld van de stad in het oosten van Oekraïne. Zo moet worden voorkomen dat er onnodig veel tijd en moeite gaat zitten in het transport van de lichamen.

"De samenwerking met de lokale autoriteiten is zonder meer goed. In het rebellengebied ligt dat wat complexer, maar we moeten dan ook niet vergeten dat het daar oorlog is," aldus Tuinder.

Translation:

Rijswijk (ANP)- Dutch specialists of National Team Forensic Detection (LTFO) have prepared a warehouse in Kharkov, from which the repatriation of victims of the air disaster in Ukraine will take place. That announcement was made by the Police, of which the LTFO is a part, on Monday evening.

According to Jan Tuinder, the acting head of the Central Ukraine Coordination, the warehouse is located somewhere between the train station and the airport of the city in the East of Ukraine. That way it can be avoided that a lot of unnecessary time and effort is lost in the transportation of the bodies.

"The cooperation with the local authorities is certainly good. In the rebel area matters are bit more complex, but we should not forget that a war is going on there'', Tuinder said.

 

[Bravo]

Wouldn't be surprised to hear Putin has the black boxes.

Using them for bookends? LOL I mean no disrespect. The man is so vile.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Remember the early reports from the first day that the black boxes had been sent to Moscow? I wouldn't be surprised to find out the ones being handled by the rebels aren't even from MH17.

 

[MsFacetious]

Asked if #MH17 black box would be handed over tonight, Malaysia delegation tells me, "we have no idea."

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/491319180319522816

Christopher Miller @ChristopherJM · 1h

Borodai's aide has emerged to say that the press conference will be at 11:30 pm. Hour from now. And back at rebel HQ. Talks ongoing.

https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/491306724809539584

It is now 38 minutes till 11:30 if I'm not mistaken. Although that tweet confuses me.
Are we talking Ukraine time?? Because it's 11:55 there. lease:

 

[Gardenlady]

Using them for bookends? LOL I mean no disrespect. The man is so vile.

Also no disrespect, but this made me LOL. Between the tweets about what's his name showing up with a cig and a pistol, the Malaysians sitting at the bar, then the pic of everyone speeding away in the car on the way to the office of borodai... This is all like a bad caper movie. Or like the chase scenes and bar fights in the the beginning of Indiana Jones.

:crazy: :banghead:


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[zwiebel]

'Nervy rebels with Kalashnikovs at administration building. Normal for those who've been in Donetsk a while but suspect Malaysians terrified'

https://mobile.twitter.com/shaunwalker7/tweets

 

[zwiebel]

https://mobile.twitter.com/maxseddon/tweets

 

[ZaZara]

Dutch FM statement to United Nations on plane crash

Must-hear Soundcloud (in English)

https://soundcloud.com/producermatthew/dutch-fm-statement-to-united-nations-on-plane-crash

"To my dying day I will not understand that it took so much time for the rescue workers to be allowed to do their difficult jobs and that human remains should be used in a political game."

 

[Isabelle]

'Nervy rebels with Kalashnikovs at administration building. Normal for those who've been in Donetsk a while but suspect Malaysians terrified'

https://mobile.twitter.com/shaunwalker7/tweets

Am getting a bad feeling about this. If rebels did something to the Malaysian officials, they probably believe no one would do anything about it.