Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #4

[Lola68]

She was found in an inaccessible place, but according to the team that found her body “It looked like she was sleeping. Her head was resting on her hands" - suggesting her body wasn't "dumped" .

Some have suggested she may have wandered there herself and ultimately lay down to die - but if the area is inaccessible to experienced hikers, how could she have made it there herself?

Post-mortem showed no sign of physical or sexual trauma and her body has been released - cover-up possible but from what I've read, the results themselves (in terms of cause of death) are not being challenged by the family - it is the conclusions that have been drawn from this in terms of no third party involvement

Her body was discovered in an area that had previously been searched a few days after the search teams relocated to a different area - suggesting if there were third party involvement, they were actively following the search

Nora's body was found just 1 day after Nora's mother made an emotional appeal and the rewards of £10k was announced - I think this is significant

I'm speculating that Nora was with someone before she died (whether abducted or found disorientated) who decided her body needed to be found - through change or heart or realisation that they couldn't do any more for her but couldn't come forward for fear of being accused of criminal activity)

All just IMO

 

[Eve71]

While I don’t blame them for taking her there with her disabilities, I just wonder why they picked it to begin with. It seems extremely boring with little to nothing to do that would occupy them beyond the first few days and they were staying for two weeks. It was described as a dream vacation by a family member (mom’s Aunt maybe?), but I wonder for whom. If it was the parents maybe they should have taken a kid-free retreat and let family stay with the kids? I don’t know. My daughter is 11 and loves all things animal, wildlife, and bird watching (we have two parrots she is obsessed with!), but after maybe 3 days, she would be done.

Agree. I’ve just posted similar. Two weeks is an awful long time to keep children occupied, especially one with additional needs. The safety aspect is worrying, no locks, open sides. No where is safe in this world. I’m surprised this place hasn’t had more children wandering off.

 

[crhedBngr]

BBM: I've been wondering if it boils down to what she found to eat or drink that caused the bleed. She had to have been very hungry and may have ingested a toxic plant or as you said, parasitic water.
As for why she may have wandered away, I wonder if she may have woken out of a deep sleep and been disoriented. This wasn't her home, nothing looked familiar. She may have left out of confusion and fear, trying to find her home. This story just breaks my heart.

RBBM

This. I hope they release more data to the public, such as a toxicology report.

 

[Sarahlou]

Considering the child’s disability’s was Malaysia the right place to take her on holiday?

It seems like she suffered unimaginably in the last week and would of been scared witless and unable to seek help as she mentally didn’t have the capabilities to do so.

The fact the parents seemingly want her to have been murdered over her simply getting lost and then being too scared and out of her depth to seek helps point to their guilt in taking her to such a place in the first place.

A fully functioning child would struggle in such conditions let alone somebody like poor Nora. My heart goes out to her as she was totally defenseless in such a situation and should never of been put in such a situation in the first place.

This post isn't fair on the parents. I don't think they did anything wrong taking her to Malaysia.

Of course they wouldn't rather she had been murdered! They are just in disbelief as are lots of people as to what happened. It really doesn't seem to add up so I don't blame them for how they feel. I'm sure in time their views on it might change but it is very raw right now obviously.

 

[Lola68]

She was found in an inaccessible place, but according to the team that found her body “It looked like she was sleeping. Her head was resting on her hands" - suggesting her body wasn't "dumped".

Some have suggested she may have wandered there herself and ultimately lay down to die - but if the area is inaccessible to experienced hikers, how could she have made it there herself?

Post-mortem showed no sign of physical or sexual trauma and her body has been released - cover-up possible but from what I've read, the results themselves (in terms of cause of death) are not being challenged by the family - it is the conclusions that have been drawn from this in terms of no third party involvement

Her body was discovered in an area that had previously been searched a few days after the search teams relocated to a different area - suggesting if there were third party involvement, they were actively following the search

Nora's body was found just 1 day after Nora's mother made an emotional appeal and the rewards of £10k was announced - I think this is significant

I'm speculating that Nora was with someone before she died (whether abducted or found disorientated) who decided her body needed to be found - through change or heart or realisation that they couldn't do any more for her but couldn't come forward for fear of being accused of criminal activity

All just IMO

 

[steff13]

Completely agree. Beyond this waterfall there seems to be nothing to do. Many reviews are couples that stay for 2-3 nights only.

Not sure they will stay in business after this though, who would want to visit the waterfall now?

I agree as well. I looked at the resort's FB page and the TA page, and it really looks beautiful, but I think I would struggle with boredom after a couple of days at that resort.

They may have had other day trips and things planned, though. Malaysia certainly looks like a beautiful country, with lots of attractions.

 

[Eve71]

While I don’t blame them for taking her there with her disabilities, I just wonder why they picked it to begin with. It seems extremely boring with little to nothing to do that would occupy them beyond the first few days and they were staying for two weeks. It was described as a dream vacation by a family member (mom’s Aunt maybe?), but I wonder for whom. If it was the parents maybe they should have taken a kid-free retreat and let family stay with the kids? I don’t know. My daughter is 11 and loves all things animal, wildlife, and bird watching (we have two parrots she is obsessed with!), but after maybe 3 days, she would be done.

Agree. I’ve just posted similar. Two weeks is an awful long time to keep children occupied, especially one with additional needs. The safety aspect is worrying, no locks, open sides. No where is safe in this world. I’m surprised this place hasn’t had more children wandering off.

 

[steff13]

DBM

 

[Simply Southern]

Malaysia is as child friendly as it can be. A special needs child’s welfare is the responsibility and prerogative of the parents. If they are equipped to care for her, during the holiday, that’s not our place to comment whether Malaysia or any other country is suitable for them.

So true and excellent point.

Reminds me of the 3 year old that was eaten by the alligator at the Disney Resort. OMG, I've stayed at that resort with my grandkids.

Who would every dream a child would die at Disney. It's the Magic Kingdom, a happy and magical place.

It can happen anywhere, in the blink of an eye.

Yes, we've been back since. Yes, we are much more careful and never, ever go near the water.

Imho

 

[Sarahlou]

Edit. Sorry double post

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

I also think that Nora could have possibly developed sepsis. The sepsis would have been caused by the lining of the stomach splitting open leading to the bacteria that live in the stomach to escape and infect the lining of the abdomen (this is called peritonitis). The most common symptom of peritonitis is sudden abdominal pain that gets steadily worse. In peritonitis, the infection can rapidly spread into the blood (this is called sepsis) before spreading to other organs. This carries the risk of multiple organ failure and can be fatal if left untreated.

Sepsis is often accompanied by delirium (acute brain dysfunction) which leads to an acute change in mental status, ranging from inattention, disorientation, agitation, somnolence, stupor and coma. So I work in an Acute Care Hospital as a Psych NP, but we often get called in when a delirium isn’t clearing or worsening. If it happened the way it is portrayed (Nora got lost in jungle and passed away from an intestinal perforation or stomach perforation), I think she may have been delirious and her reality may have been much different. People often don’t know where they are, who they are, and their consciousness is altered. I have difficult time thinking about what Nora may have went through. I hang on to the thought that she may have fallen asleep and then sank into a coma and maybe didn’t suffer as much as we think. But that is just MOO…

Other potential causes of delirium include electrolyte abnormalities, sleep deprivation, dehydration, poor nutrition….

I had pnuemonia one time that I did not know I had, and that in turn resulted in me getting sepsis. From there, I went into septic shock, renal failure, and then they put me on some machine/procedure called ECMO. I can tell you this much, that was not much fun, even though I was in a coma for a month and can't remember much other than some straight up INSANE dreams and the fact that going through all of that left me with a PTSD diagnosis. Medicinal bud has been a lifesaver for me when it comes to living with PTSD.

 

[crhedBngr]

There will be more information and investigation happening. Possibly an inquest. Nothing much has been said other than the cause of death.

RBBM

Which will hopefully be released to the public, including a toxicology report.

 

[TTF14]

I don't believe race had anything to do with Nora's decease.

I think she really wanted to see the waterfall(s) and perhaps was becoming more independent as she went into her teen years.

RIP, Nora.

I agree. Not only had Nora's parents never reared a special needs teenager, then have never reared a teenager, period. As others have said, I'm sure Nora surprised them every day with things she could do (and also with things she could not do). Her particular disability sounds a bit unpredictable, and really, how could they know for 100% certainty what she would or would not do? Even parents of typical teens don't know this.

 

[Simply Southern]

Malaysia is as child friendly as it can be. A special needs child’s welfare is the responsibility and prerogative of the parents. If they are equipped to care for her, during the holiday, that’s not our place to comment whether Malaysia or any other country is suitable for them.

So true and excellent t poi t.

Reminds me of the 3 year old that was eaten by the alligator at the Disney Resort. OMG, I've stayed at that resort with my grandkids.

Who would every dream a child would die at Disney. It's the Magic Kingdom, a happy and magical place.

It can happen anywhere, in the blink of an eye.

Yes, we've been back since. Yes, we are much more careful and never, ever go near the water.

Imho

 

[TTF14]

Delete. Double post due to WS fart.

 

[Skigh]

I felt from the beginning Nora had simply wandered off for reasons we will never know. I do question why the parents chose such a holiday destination with Nora’s limited mobility, it’s certainly not somewhere I’d take my children they’d be bored stiff after a few days and I’d be concerned about the lack of security ( no locks on doors, open sides, I’d not sleep at night! ) but they had booked for two weeks. I have noticed on trip advisor most only book a couple of nights at most. Another thing I noticed was the parents were certain she’d been abducted because of her limited mobility, yet how did they expect Nora to navigate the jungle treks when according to them she couldn’t even open a window ?

I would imagine the Quoirins researched their dream holiday very carefully thinking about the needs of all three of their children.
What Nora could do supported by her family was very different from what she could do on her own.
We have no idea what activities they planned,but they knew they were things Nora could take part in.
To be honest I do not think this is the time or place to be questioning their choice of holiday destination.

 

[SuperTmo]

Oh yes, I own it and the guilt that is attached. I hope and seek forgiveness.

I lost sight of objective, due to lack of translation, and personal experience.

I am grateful, several locals were on here late last night. They were kind to me, explained things, provided information and translated. That takes ALOT, concerning where the thread was headed.

I admire, they looked pass all the comments, rose above the situation. I hope I would do the same. I have an unsolved murder of an entire family, 18 years ago, in my community. It made me remember the community impact. The national news rolling in, the accusations, accusing LE, and more.

Did you notice the entire thread changed? When the locals joined in?

Thanks to all...

JMHO

Oh yes! The locals were incredible giving us more info, explaining things. These cases are hard enough when they are in the states and the media is rushing for a scoop. Add to that the need for translation, terminology that might be different than how we use it, etc., and it makes for a really bad game of telephone!

 

[Simply Southern]

Oh I think plenty of people. Not everyone is obsessed with stories like this like we are. Even the ones who know about it in the 3 other countries the family is associated with probably haven’t followed this closely. Some people (like my kidless cousin) googled the place and find it beautiful and want to visit! So you never know!

As a small business owner, I think it would be a shame for their business to close over something that had nothing to do with the business itself. That would be akin to one of my clients having a fatal heart attack at my office and people not wanting to do business with me because it happened here.

Yes, especially after all the locals did to search for her.

 

[Eve71]

Oh yes, I own it and the guilt that is attached. I hope and seek forgiveness.

I lost sight of objective, due to lack of translation, and personal experience.

I am grateful, several locals were on here late last night. They were kind to me, explained things, provided information and translated. That takes ALOT, concerning where the thread was headed.

I admire, they looked pass all the comments, rose above the situation. I hope I would do the same. I have an unsolved murder of an entire family, 18 years ago, in my community. It made me remember the community impact. The national news rolling in, the accusations, accusing LE, and more.

Did you notice the entire thread changed? When the locals joined in?

Thanks to all...

JMHO

You’re incredibly humble. I missed what was said but you do have a lovely manner about you.

 

[Eve71]

I would imagine the Quoirins researched their dream holiday very carefully thinking about the needs of all three of their children.
What Nora could do supported by her family was very different from what she could do on her own.
We have no idea what activities they planned,but they knew they were things Nora could take part in.
To be honest I do not think this is the time or place to be questioning their choice of holiday destination.

To be fair to them the one who would have enjoyed it the most would have been Nora.