Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #4

[momrids6]

Ok Map folks- see if you can find the palm oil plantation and this trail.

" They searched an area along a trail from an oil palm plantation near the resort, splitting into two groups to search both sides of the trail before regrouping and heading towards a small stream.

"One of our member(s), the first in line, saw the body lying across a small stream," said Ms Yap." Volunteer hikers describe moment they found missing Irish teen's body lying by a stream

 

[Kubirai]

Can you give an example of the scenario you were asked for? Which i believe was someone abducting a child, not harming them in any way then releasing them which lead to them dying on their own? Genuinely curious because i've never heard anything like that.

I highlighted the part which may not have occured, but Nora was probably left near the waterfall, when she wasn't awake.

The local police should check the route back from her final location. If she hid from searchers and slept overnight, she could have left some damaged foliage. Her Aug3/4 underwear could have been discarded somewhere else.

 

[steff13]

I can discuss an opposite scenario for now. An Australian mother seemingly misplaced her baby, but claimed that a dingo took it. It also became a movie.

Ok, I think I get what you're saying now. Normally, I'd be with you, but in this case, I'm just not feeling it.

 

[Nadal]

I highlighted the part which may not have occured, but Nora was probably left near the waterfall, when she wasn't awake.

The local police should check the route back from her final location. If she hid from searchers and slept overnight, she could have left some damaged foliage. Her Aug3/4 underwear could have been discarded somewhere else.

Okay, must have misunderstood you. When you said "it's happened before" in reply to someone describing the scenario i figured you knew of precedent for it.

 

[neesaki]

Police can ... it has happened before.

I imagine that Nora's desire to see the waterfall was communicated on Aug 4. Her legacy should be that ALL relevant information is provided, early in the search.

Kubirai, I really appreciate the information you have been providing here. Are you previously or originally from, that part of the world, Malaysia? Either way, you do seem to have a certain amount of insider knowledge or at least familiarity.

So, what I very much want to see, is, re: your post in quotes, the information about what has happened before. I really believe it could be important.
Do you think it could help solve this case? A link from MSM with anything that has case information, is all we need. That would be awesome.

I guess I should also add, I don’t believe it has been solved as yet. As in, I find it very hard to believe that this precious disabled girl made it to where she ended up, on her own. And that’s JMO

 

[steff13]

Oh, I figured you meant the mother stole the dingos baby. Jk

Baby dingos are super cute, so I can understand the urge.

 

[Amonet]

Good question, I'll talk to Google. Some countries fingerprint upon entry. Be right back....

Edited, a lot of parents do have fingerprints. In the US, the police and other groups offer to fingerprint and some times give a little kit. The parents keep the finger prints. All babies have their foot and hand printed at birth hospital.

I would think the whole family would be fingerprinted, and then some items that Nora's known to touch (a hand mirror would be ideal for holding good prints, but even a book cover could work) would be tested and whichever print doesn't belong to the other family members would likely be Nora's print. Then that print could be compared to others found in the chalet, including the windows, door handle, etc.

 

[Amonet]

Honestly this stuff about France getting involved doesn’t make sense to me. She had a French parent, but he hadn’t lived there in 20 years. France has no jurisdiction here, as far as I understand. But maybe I’m missing something. The attorney said that they weren’t going to push for a criminal investigation but then they are essentially doing that via a 3rd party country. It’s weird, IMO.

If SQ was traveling on a French passport, then that would be enough for for the French embassy to get involved. Nora could have quite a complex nationality as the child of a British subject, an Irish subject, and a French subject, therefore she may have a claim to all of those nationalities.

 

[Kubirai]

The abductor may have decided to release her after hearing the Shaman speak.
The Shaman did say he would give him something in return, which would only be between the two of them. Imo

There was no abductor. Post-mortem follow-up tests can easily determine how many days she was outside, and if she had a single meal since Aug 3 night.

The "shaman" was referring to mythical "jinns" who supposedly live among us. He claimed the jinn was taking care of Nora, which obviously conflicts with her rapid duodenal ulcer.

 

[Simply Southern]

I would think the whole family would be fingerprinted, and then some items that Nora's known to touch (a hand mirror would be ideal for holding good prints, but even a book cover could work) would be tested and whichever print doesn't belong to the other family members would likely be Nora's print. Then that print could be compared to others found in the chalet, including the windows, door handle, etc.

Alot more folks have DNA. Thank you Ancestry!!

When my daughter was small, she was fingerprint at a police social event. The parents were given the prints. Also, kept her baby teeth. Yea, its gross, but she was my only one.

I don't think DNA would be a problem with her extensive medical care. Also, they can use moms.

JMHO

 

[whatizzinit]

IMO - we aren’t going to easily research and find another story of a patient that comes close to this scenario. It’s not just that she was hungry, or that maybe she developed an ulcer that bled.

Nora was developmentally delayed due to her brain literally not developing the usual way in the womb, physically limited in mobility to at least some degree, suddenly withdrawn from any meds she may have taken.

She was lost in a rainforest for a week, had no idea what she might be able to eat that wouldn’t kill her (i’d be in this same boat), and she didn’t really understand to look for fruits and berries to eat. Her only water may have exposed her to parasites that could have caused diarrhea and vomiting. It was hot and humid AF, and she was completely alone.

The amount of anxiety, fear and stress she felt was probably something none of us have ever experienced.

There is no way you are going to be able to pinpoint anything similar in a journal of medicine, because this is a very unique set of circumstances and clearly they all compounded into her unfortunate outcome.

Yes but on the same thought “she had no idea to eat, at least what would not kill her” I do not think she had that conceptual reasoning.

 

[Shadyren]

Facebook has many public photos of children hiking to the main "Lata Berembun" falls and "Gunung Berembun" peak. It is a challenging hike and obviously they all have adults guiding them. The peak is closer from the village.
View attachment 198627 View attachment 198628

That's because they are using track that has been cleared by forest ranger, which it make much more easier to navigate by.

Usually the track are take more distance and time.
Sometime you will encounter unusual path or trail, and usually you will get lost much more easier due the trail usually mixed with animal trail path if you aren't familiar with Malaysia forest.

When you get lost in Malaysia forest, people would suggest you to look for a tree with huge- root (picture below), knock it with any huge stick you found to signal any SAR team or random hiker, SOS.

But in Nora case, my assumption that she has been moving around, and somehow slipped through SAR team. And with how environment and topography of the Misty Mountain or Gunung berembun, it would take time for SAR team to look for missing victim if they wandering around. IMO.

 

[Simply Southern]

I provided an "opposite scenario" ... Nora wasn't abducted, her family was in a cabin, and her parents have almost universal sympathy.

Ding, ding!! I get it

I'm a mom. No, no, no ...

 

[Shadyren]

She herself, or someone carrying her, followed the stream back towards the waterfall. That explains why dogs didn't pick up her scent.

Plausible, plus with constant light rain, heavy fog/mist, her chemical trail would make dogs find hard to look for her.

Children have been found alive after not eating for several days. She drank water from the stream, and probably hid and slept in a nearby location.

And yes. This has happened before in Sabah, though the news aren't really picked this story that much.

 

[whatizzinit]

There was no abductor. Post-mortem follow-up tests can easily determine how many days she was outside, and if she had a single meal since Aug 3 night.

The "shaman" was referring to mythical "jinns" who supposedly live among us. He claimed the jinn was taking care of Nora, which obviously conflicts with her rapid duodenal ulcer.

No abductor and no jinn? So just pure luck she was found?

 

[MsBetsy]

This link may have already been posted but if I have the correct location this article describes the trek to the waterfall. There are multiple small stream crossings.
GUNUNG BERUMBUN HIKE
Gunung Berumbun hike

Wow, Thanks! This really helps!
I almost missed it because I got caught up in the "dingos got my baby" convo.

Anyway it looks fascinating.
The trail is so narrow and tiny. I was picturing hiking trails that I've been on where I live. It's hard to tell where the trail is at all in some spots.

It's a myriad of stream and river crossings with huge rocks and logs to navigate over and around.

It says the "steep slippery nature" of the peak can be dangerous.
They describe some crossings as a "balancing act"
They state that the trail just doesn't cross streams, but sometimes it is a stream.
They also advise to wear leech socks.

Somehow I can't imagine Nora even entering the jungle at all.

She would have had a terrible time, and fallen down quite a bit. I'm surprised she didn't have any fractures or sprains. I can't imagine making it all that way to the waterfall. She would have become very tired and weak quickly, as she was not nearly as strong as teenagers her age.

I would have expected her feet and ankles to be a mess from the leeches, and her entire body covered with insect bites and not just scratches, deeper wounds.

That she was wandering around in the jungle for 7 or 8 days is unbelievable. She would not have been able to get very far. It's amazing that they could not find her. I think they should have concentrated on a smaller search area. Imo

 

[neesaki]

I highlighted the part which may not have occured, but Nora was probably left near the waterfall, when she wasn't awake.

The local police should check the route back from her final location. If she hid from searchers and slept overnight, she could have left some damaged foliage. Her Aug3/4 underwear could have been discarded somewhere else.

If she was abducted, for one, I’m quite sure she would have awakened quite quickly. So, not taken directly to the waterfall, IMO.

For another, If she was left near the waterfall when she wasn’t awake, I’m thinking it would have been toward the end of the time she was missing, if that was indeed the situation. Because otherwise I strongly believe she would have been found during the searches, IMO.

All just my opinion, please feel free to weigh in.

 

[whatizzinit]

So truly heartrending. I cannot imagine what that poor angel endured. It sounds like her family did everything possible to give her a life with extraordinary experiences and took whatever opportunities they could to help her be the best and happiest person she could be. Their loss and pain is surely immense but I find solace in how completely she was loved and how she was such an integral part of all their family experiences. They were completely hands on. I was just appreciating that about them because there are many stories out there where special needs kids have been neglected or perhaps seen as an inconvenience. Nora was surely blessed with a great family and they in turn were blessed with her sweet and gentle spirit.

One thing I wonder about is her state of mind right before they all went to bed. I’m thinking about her mom telling her a bedtime story and perhaps discussing their plans ahead including the waterfall. I wonder if she even perhaps told Nora an enchanting tale that made the waterfall seem extra magical. I could picture myself as a mom in that scenario, talking about the amazing sights and sounds of the waterfall, maybe wondering about waterfall faeries or dragonflies fluttering in the sunlight in every color of the rainbow, just whimsical stuff like that to capture her imagination.

I don’t think she went out just to see what was out there in general, as she was much too fearful. But I believe she may have been excited or transfixed about the waterfall and even wondered if the “rustling sounds” could’ve happened prior to her venturing out, and triggered thoughts about the waterfall, you know the sounds of a waterfall, and that led her to climb out the open window.

There is some beauty to be found amongst the sorrow in that she somehow ended up at the waterfall in the end. I wonder how big and loud the waterfall is? If she was near it but overlooked, perhaps she didn’t hear the searchers or her mother’s voice due to being incapacitated and lacking the strength or understanding to try to alert anyone by making sounds or perhaps her sounds were drowned out by the rushing sound. Or, she was simply fearful in a sort of primitive way. I’m not sure how cognizant she was or self aware...or if she understood the context of being lost. I’m sure it was stressful not having her mother there and confusing but I’m not sure she understood the concept of being lost or separated from her family. But undoubtedly her mind and body were both in a state of extreme stress that contributed to her death. It’s beyond awful to think of the suffering she endured.

I hope the family will accept the answers so they may have real closure. I am praying for them with my full heart, and Nora’s memory will forever outlast her untimely and tragic death. She is free from suffering now so I’m going to try not to dwell on all she endured, my mind has been going in endless circles.

Could be although we know she saw “a waterfall” before as evidenced in photos.

 

[Simply Southern]

That's because they are using track that has been cleared by forest ranger, which it make much more easier to navigate by.

Usually the track are take more distance and time.
Sometime you will encounter unusual path or trail, and usually you will get lost much more easier due the trail usually mixed with animal trail path if you aren't familiar with Malaysia forest.

When you get lost in Malaysia forest, people would suggest you to look for a tree with huge- root (picture below), knock it with any huge stick you find to signal any SAR team or random hiker who heard you SOS.

But in Nora case, my assumption that she has been moving around, and somehow slipped through SAR team. And with how environment and topography of the Misty Mountain or Gunung berembun, it would take time for SAR team to look for missing victim if they wandering around. IMO.

WOW!!l That's a good survival skill, no matter what county. Thanks..

I live very near the mountains. Fog can be treacherous, like driving in a cloud. The search would be very hard,with low visibility. The heat, humidity, and fog, it had to be physically exhausting search.
Thank the people of your land.

I do have a question. Who owns the forrest and waterfall? Is that private or public ?
Thanks, I'm learning so much.

I have been reading about the area. Quite interesting.

 

[MsBetsy]

Baby dingos are super cute, so I can understand the urge.

So cute!