Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #6

[kittythehare]

window was open according to this old newspaper article
The mysterious death of Nora Quoirin

 

[Ruthbullock]

Only heard from 6 witnesses so far ...

 

[Ruthbullock]

the photos are in my post #349... click for enlarged view

they do seem to have removed Sora from their website

They still advertise 7 holiday chalets, so same number of buildings available for tourists. They have either renamed it or when they did the repair work in October after the holiday season it got completely remodelled.
Looks like it’s now called the Tapir
Tapir House

 

[Cherwell]

I’m not sure why they were so certain it was this window either- I have a vague recollection that her sibling said she went out of it right back in the early days- but I can’t find it anywhere now.

I bet that's how they know.

Between that window and the wide open deck, that cabin would have been hazardously easy to fall out of and more difficult to climb back into if the front door was locked, which would actually be counterproductive.

The parents have a hell of a nerve trying to sue the resort for the accommodation allegedly not being secure. The place looks like a potential death trap for young children, and they must have known what it would be like from the brochures. A dodgy window latch is a red herring.

 

[Alyce]

Oh - found a better picture you are right. Although then the ledge looks wide enough to sit and spin on, so same theory.

Found a different photo angle and you are right, but the ledge looks wide enough to sit on and rotate around, still easier to get out, but not as easy to get back in.
I’m not sure why they were so certain it was this window either- I have a vague recollection that her sibling said she went out of it right back in the early days- but I can’t find it anywhere now.

thank you @Jax49

I remember that too...I think it was the police who mentioned that one of the children had said the window was open and Nora must have gone out that way. Then the parents stopped the children from being questioned further and we didn’t hear anything more.

 

[neesaki]

I'm not making any claims to be an expert but I made a pretty extensive study of (American) shamanism when I was younger and in just the last couple years I've had a passing interest in Indonesian folklore which I assume is fairly similar to Malaysian

That's why I've said numerous times that I wouldn't be at all surprised if the indigenous or just more superstitious locals saw her as a supernatural creature to be very cautious of.

One other theory I've had that I haven't voiced until now is that it might also have been a possibility that a local may have with good intentions or at least no malice taken her in as we might take in an injured animal. When you take in an injured animal you often will believe that it's fine and safe but it's actually so disrupted from its natural environment that after a few days it just dies. This may very well have been what happened with a developmentally handicapped girl taken into a hut by people speaking another language and offered food she had never seen before. It also wouldn't surprise me if after their "guest" had died that they might carefully wash her body and take her back to the place they found her or a place with spiritual significance.

If this is the case it would be especially tragic and show yet another breakdown in communications with the locals not understanding that she was being looked for and that a reward was offered, maybe just because that information was never conveyed to them in a way they would understand.

This actually makes a lot of sense to me. I’ve always thought she was being held somewhere, but wouldn’t or couldn’t eat due to being so stressed and fearful because she was in a very strange and foreign environment. Without her mother. Thus the stress ulcers and starvation.

I think it’s possible she left the house on her own, lured by the sounds of the wild animals of the forest and the excitement of seeing the waterfall. Then as you say, a local took her and tried to help her. The only thing is, wouldn’t they have heard about the search? So why not release her soon after. Idk, such a mystery.

 

[evilwise]

I bet that's how they know.


The parents have a hell of a nerve trying to sue the resort for the accommodation allegedly not being secure. The place looks like a potential death trap for young children, and they must have known what it would be like from the brochures. A dodgy window latch is a red herring.

I'm far from a social justice warrior but it seems strange to me when we have cases like little Miracle & TJ and now Tootie where toddlers wander off and die and there's hell to pay for those caregivers but it's completely different in this case. Is it because Nora only had the mentality of a small child or because it happened in a tropical "paradise" or..?

This actually makes a lot of sense to me. I’ve always thought she was being held somewhere, but wouldn’t or couldn’t eat due to being so stressed and fearful because she was in a very strange and foreign environment. Without her mother. Thus the stress ulcers and starvation.

I think it’s possible she left the house on her own, lured by the sounds of the wild animals of the forest and the excitement of seeing the waterfall. Then as you say, a local took her and tried to help her. The only thing is, wouldn’t they have heard about the search? So why not release her soon after. Idk, such a mystery.

It can be very hard to speculate about spiritual motivations for peoples who's faith is quite alien to us without sounding borderline ludicrous but it seems that living in harmony with the forest and appeasing the forest spirits is a big part of this brand of animism. When it comes to someone like Nora who in addition to just being white also clearly has something not right about them may have been seen as some kind of spiritual problem like a curse or a possession that needed to be cured by traditional means before she could safely be returned.

 

[Chiatos]

I wonder whether Nora's legs and feet were muddy when her body was found after so many days of wandering around.

Each time I hiked in a jungle, my legs got muddy up to my thighs the same day.

See here this pic of searches in the surroundings of the Dusun:
Nora Anne inquest starts with testimony from NS police chief

 

[kittythehare]

I cannot for the life of me envisage a scenario whereby she was taken by any person.
alarm was raised at 8am.
How heavily populated is this area, really?
How far could she have wondered if reports about her abilities are accurate? IF.

Like other people have mentioned, the place is a danger zone for children. Just so many possibilities for accidents.
I just cannot see a stranger taking Nora for any reason at all.
I doubt I ever will.

 

[evilwise]

I cannot for the life of me envisage a scenario whereby she was taken by any person.
alarm was raised at 8am.
How heavily populated is this area, really?
How far could she have wondered if reports about her abilities are accurate? IF.

Like other people have mentioned, the place is a danger zone for children. Just so many possibilities for accidents.
I just cannot see a stranger taking Nora for any reason at all.
I doubt I ever will.

The resort is within a couple miles of a large neighborhood of maybe 100 homes to the west and directly next to a national park to the east that attracts visitors from all over the country.

 

[Officer Dibble]

They still advertise 7 holiday chalets, so same number of buildings available for tourists. They have either renamed it or when they did the repair work in October after the holiday season it got completely remodelled.
Looks like it’s now called the Tapir
Tapir House

Well done for sussing this out.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Senior police official Mohamad Nor Marzukee Besar told a court in Seremban city today that the family identified three houses where they thought the child might be held.

He said they searched all the houses near the Dusan Resort but did not find the child in any of them.

The resort owner said she could have been taken to a hut deep in the jungle but police only found a man sleeping there.

This reads as bizarre to me- the parents arrive the day before and have flagged up houses where they think Nora had been taken to. In a Malaysian news article it states they were all on the resort, except the hut (so not sure which is true). First someone at the airport, then someone in the resort- is that a normal reaction?

 

[Officer Dibble]

It seems strange to me that in 10 days of searching Nora's clothes were not found.

She was only wearing pants

 

[Ruthbullock]

Just repeating as I’m not sure how it can be wrapped up this week- we have now heard from seven of the 64 witnesses!!!!

 

[Chiatos]

I cannot for the life of me envisage a scenario whereby she was taken by any person.
alarm was raised at 8am.
How heavily populated is this area, really?
How far could she have wondered if reports about her abilities are accurate? IF.

Like other people have mentioned, the place is a danger zone for children. Just so many possibilities for accidents.
I just cannot see a stranger taking Nora for any reason at all.
I doubt I ever will.

So many possibilities for accidents.
Yet, for a full week, she didn't break any bones, she didn't drown, nor was she bitten by any snake, nor was she bitten by any insect of importance.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Whilst I doubt Noras mobility and coordination difficulties were as severe as her parents first implied. I do think it is true she had some difficulties. I also think this is why she had no “deep scars” on her feet (we don’t know that they weren’t mildly scratched and we do know they were bruised, deep scars was what was ruled out in the inquest). If you have achy bones or stumble a lot you tend to walk more slowly and more cautiously than your average person. Your brain has to work much harder to make it movement and whereas most take walking for granted, those with difficulties have to think out each aspect of the movement.

 

[Chiatos]

Senior police official Mohamad Nor Marzukee Besar told a court in Seremban city today that the family identified three houses where they thought the child might be held.

He said they searched all the houses near the Dusan Resort but did not find the child in any of them.

The resort owner said she could have been taken to a hut deep in the jungle but police only found a man sleeping there.

This reads as bizarre to me- the parents arrive the day before and have flagged up houses where they think Nora had been taken to. In a Malaysian news article it states they were all on the resort, except the hut (so not sure which is true). First someone at the airport, then someone in the resort- is that a normal reaction?

Apparently the family had visited those houses during the day.
Nora Anne Quoirin inquest: Family initially wanted three houses near resort searched, Nilai police chief testifies | Malay Mail

 

[Clair Louise]

Apparently the family had visited those houses during the day.
Nora Anne Quoirin inquest: Family initially wanted three houses near resort searched, Nilai police chief testifies | Malay Mail

I am finding it very hard to believe anything these parents say.

 

[kittythehare]

The resort is within a couple miles of a large neighborhood of maybe 100 homes to the west and directly next to a national park to the east that attracts visitors from all over the country.

yes but they would have needed to make an effort to get there, staff knocked off at 7pm.
I cannot remember time family went asleep, was it around 10pm or something?
Family had not been in public view for long enough to have been noticed much.
Did somebody drive up that steep hill in first gear, for traction, just to take a child?
In the dark?
leaving no trace?
Non residents were not encouraged to visit the place.
It wasn't like a hotel with a public bar.
20 residents max in 7 different houses or as many as were occupied at the time?
I'm not seeing it because it makes no sense , none whatsoever.
None of this does.
Not even a bit.
It is utterly surreal.
No suspect.
No coherence, a dead child who walked 1.6 miles over a 7 day period..
I don't even know what the possibilities are.

 

[kittythehare]

Apparently the family had visited those houses during the day.
Nora Anne Quoirin inquest: Family initially wanted three houses near resort searched, Nilai police chief testifies | Malay Mail

obvious question, why were they visiting 3 houses in a nearby resort? What time?
Were the houses occupied?
who saw them, who did they meet Bananas.

edit to throw in another q, how did they travel to resort 2?
Did they have a vehicle rented for their vacation?
How did they travel to resort from airport, if not?