Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #6

[Ruthbullock]

We normally have at least some summary of today’s inquest in the Malaysian press (it’s gone 5pm there now) by this time each day- wonder if today’s proceedings were in English and it is taking time to translate?

 

[Ruthbullock]

Looks like two more local witnesses today. One in a suit, one in police uniform. The window is in the courtroom as well today.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Nora Anne Quoirin inquest: No drug or poison detected in girl’s body, chemist testifies | Malay Mail

 

[Alyce]

Head of forensics Noor Aidora Saedon told the court Nora breathed for the last time four days before her naked body was found during an extensive search.

Nora's family's counsel, Sakthy Vell Saminathan, had asked Saedon about the length of time her body had been lying near the stream before she was discovered.

Nora Quoirin 'survived six days before dying of starvation', inquest hears



I can't see an answer being given to this question

 

[Alyce]

From Ruth's link above


Testifying as the eighth witness in the inquest, Department of Chemistry Malaysia Criminalistics Division chemist Saiful Fazamil Mohd Ali said he was tasked with analysing two soil samples obtained from the vicinity of where Quiorin was found and those underneath her body.

He said he had obtained both samples on August 16, 2019, three days after Quoirin's body was discovered.

“After performing my analysis, I found that both soil samples contained similar density distribution with each other. Therefore, I believed both samples were from the same source.

“Subsequent to the findings, I then prepared a chemist report dated October 1, 2019,” he said.

Following that, Saiful Fazamil said the samples were then moved to a vault for safekeeping until they were taken out on January 20 this year.

When asked to clarify the purpose of the analysis, Saiful Fazamil said it was to perform a comparison of both soil samples through a thorough study of their traits such as colour, density and soil pH.


Am not seeing the purpose of this analysis ?

 

[Ruthbullock]

From Ruth's link above


Testifying as the eighth witness in the inquest, Department of Chemistry Malaysia Criminalistics Division chemist Saiful Fazamil Mohd Ali said he was tasked with analysing two soil samples obtained from the vicinity of where Quiorin was found and those underneath her body.

He said he had obtained both samples on August 16, 2019, three days after Quoirin's body was discovered.

“After performing my analysis, I found that both soil samples contained similar density distribution with each other. Therefore, I believed both samples were from the same source.

“Subsequent to the findings, I then prepared a chemist report dated October 1, 2019,” he said.

Following that, Saiful Fazamil said the samples were then moved to a vault for safekeeping until they were taken out on January 20 this year.

When asked to clarify the purpose of the analysis, Saiful Fazamil said it was to perform a comparison of both soil samples through a thorough study of their traits such as colour, density and soil pH.


Am not seeing the purpose of this analysis ?

Possibly to see if she had been moved from one location to another- the soil samples on her body would be different to nearby.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Possibly to see if she had been moved from one location to another- the soil samples on her body would be different to nearby.

I agree...l but it does seem they are not providing direct answers to questions

 

[Chiatos]

Head of forensics Noor Aidora Saedon told the court Nora breathed for the last time four days before her naked body was found during an extensive search.

Nora's family's counsel, Sakthy Vell Saminathan, had asked Saedon about the length of time her body had been lying near the stream before she was discovered.

Nora Quoirin 'survived six days before dying of starvation', inquest hears



I can't see an answer being given to this question

It also days:
Nora was eventually discovered on an abandoned plantation

 

[Chiatos]

Now I don't know where that abandoned plantation is, but here is a GE map of the Dusun and surroundings:

Where would those 3 houses be in this map?

The waterfall (Google maps):

Is the waterfall in the red circle?

If you click on the balloon at Air Terjun Gunung in Google maps, you can view 360 degrees and see the waterfall in that spot.
Here is a video at that spot:
خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

 

[evilwise]

You are definitely not alone in feeling this way.

I feel for Nora's parents, I really do. The second-guessing and questioning they must be doing, and the guilt they must feel must be overwhelming. Any scenario, even the thought of a stranger killing Nora might be preferable to them than the thought that maybe they could have done something differently that would have led to a different outcome. Note: I don't believe they could have but they might.

You don't? We all do things every day that increase the risk of something bad happening but we do it in the belief that the reward will be worth the increased risk. It's easy to attack Nora's parents in hindsight as the risks they chose to undertake in this case are pretty obvious - and it's probably especially tempting for people without the means to take a (lowish budget) tropical vacation to pile on that they wouldn't even if they could. The bottom line is that the Quorin's actions while arguably somewhat unwise and their reaction superficially somewhat suspicious, no investigators either in Malaysia or back in Europe has considered them suspect so there's no point in pointing fingers at them. I'm sure that deep down they feel profoundly guilty already and will carry that forever.

here is an old article, from before she was found discussing the work of the shaman.
It makes sense, to me.
Police earlier released a video showing a shaman wearing a white skullcap and several of his assistants performing rituals in the forest.

Shaman Khalid Mohamad earlier said he believed the girl was lured by a genie, an invisible spirit believed by Muslims to inhabit the Earth and influence mankind by appearing in the form of humans or animals.

He said in the video that the genie was attracted to the girl because she had special needs and had chosen Quoirin as its stepchild.

The video showed the shaman crying and appealing for the girl’s return.

“Tonight I will ask for the spirit to return her from where (she was taken) and the condition they took her but they will ask for something in exchange. That will be between me and them. Most important now, the child will be released,” he said in the video.
Body found in search for missing teen

I had never read these details from the shaman's statement and it's bang onto what I think happened. It seems like someone contacted him anonymously after she had died sort of like a "confession" if they were catholic - and then his statement was his way of attempting to lay the groundwork for the context under which her body would be found. If anyone named so far knows who held her, it's that shaman.

Also between the early search that only discovered the "sleeping man" and this "abandoned plantation" I'm going back to my earlier inclination that there's no shortage of huts in that jungle.

 

[Ruthbullock]

The Dusun is a built on an abandoned plantation- they are referring to the surroundings.

 

[Sarahlou]

I had never read these details from the shaman's statement and it's bang onto what I think happened. It seems like someone contacted him anonymously after she had died sort of like a "confession" if they were catholic - and then his statement was his way of attempting to lay the groundwork for the context under which her body would be found. If anyone named so far knows who held her, it's that shaman.

Honestly I'm pretty convinced this is what happened. We'll never know for sure but I do believe this is very close to the truth.

 

[neesaki]

You don't? We all do things every day that increase the risk of something bad happening but we do it in the belief that the reward will be worth the increased risk. It's easy to attack Nora's parents in hindsight as the risks they chose to undertake in this case are pretty obvious - and it's probably especially tempting for people without the means to take a (lowish budget) tropical vacation to pile on that they wouldn't even if they could. The bottom line is that the Quorin's actions while arguably somewhat unwise and their reaction superficially somewhat suspicious, no investigators either in Malaysia or back in Europe has considered them suspect so there's no point in pointing fingers at them. I'm sure that deep down they feel profoundly guilty already and will carry that forever.


I had never read these details from the shaman's statement and it's bang onto what I think happened. It seems like someone contacted him anonymously after she had died sort of like a "confession" if they were catholic - and then his statement was his way of attempting to lay the groundwork for the context under which her body would be found. If anyone named so far knows who held her, it's that shaman.

Also between the early search that only discovered the "sleeping man" and this "abandoned plantation" I'm going back to my earlier inclination that there's no shortage of huts in that jungle.

My thoughts are leaning this way as well.

 

[neesaki]

Double post deleted.

 

[Chiatos]

The prime suspect in the Madeline McCann case was a regular hotel burglar

And his possible role model in modus operandi was able to snatch kids in the middle of the night for 20 years. He used to take them elsewhere to abuse them and to photograph them naked and then release them. Thus not leaving much traces other than the statements by the distrought kids that survived. At least three kids didn't survive. But it has taken almost 20 years since his first known victim to get caught!

 

[Cherwell]

And his possible role model in modus operandi was able to snatch kids in the middle of the night for 20 years. He used to take them elsewhere to abuse them and to photograph them naked and then release them. Thus not leaving much traces other than the statements by the distrought kids that survived. At least three kids didn't survive. But it has taken almost 20 years since his first known victim to get caught!

But there is no evidence of anything like that in this case.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

They visit three houses in the next door resort, but Nora cant walk very far? And then her parents think that those occupiers may have abducted her, or the person who spoke to them at the airport and followed them to abduct her?
I am having some suspicions about her parents.

Her parents have said she can't walk very far by herself, not that she can't walk very far. They believe she was abducted, so of course they will consider anyone they think could have been aware Nora was there.

Having read everything from the first thread, I believe her parents truly believe, or self-preservation-which is normal when a child passes from an accident- causes them to believe, that she must have been abducted from the house somehow.
(ETA: by accident here I simply mean she became lost outside.)

 

[kittythehare]

The shaman spoke these words on Monday the 12th of August. Nora was already 3 days dead while he spoke those words.

Nora was found on Tuesday the 13th of August.
According to the autopsy she had died 4 days before.

Where do you see the date he spoke these words, I cant seem to find it?

 

[kittythehare]

Now I don't know where that abandoned plantation is, but here is a GE map of the Dusun and surroundings:

Where would those 3 houses be in this map?

The waterfall (Google maps):

Is the waterfall in the red circle?

If you click on the balloon at Air Terjun Gunung in Google maps, you can view 360 degrees and see the waterfall in that spot.
Here is a video at that spot:
خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

Fabulous video, well done locating this!!

 

[Officer Dibble]

The prime suspect in the Madeline McCann case was a regular hotel burglar

Good point