MaM a Year Later - Reconstruct the Crime

[dexter75]

Some people despise the documentary Making a Murderer. They also hold in obvious disdain, anyone who watched it, or anyone who has come to believe that evidence was planted and SA was framed.

They don't like to dwell on the fact that it was proven that he was framed before, and it will most likely be proven that he was framed again in due time.

What I find harder to understand is what motivates those who hate Making a Murder to continually subject themselves to the Making a Murderer forum?

I personally cannot stand the JBR topic, but I don't go there and post how ignorent, uninformed, and wrong minded those who post there are if they watched
JBR documentaries, and researched the case, yet still don't believe as I do.

Why would anyone frequent a forum, dedicated to a topic they despise?

Safeguard!! How are ya?❤❤❤
I've often wondered the same exact thing😊
I'm extremely vocal on ALL subjects & aspects of life I'm passionate about❤ ( especially here on WS )
The negative " stuff " or topics I find upsetting?
Welp, as I've matured I've mastered not sweatin' the small stuff😉 I just " don't go there "
I highly recommend this to anyone looking to enhance their wellbeing😊

Edited to add:
I always look forward to your posts.
You are always precise, never beating around the bush🙄

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[Safeguard]

Safeguard!! How are ya?❤❤❤
I've often wondered the same exact thing��
I'm extremely vocal on ALL subjects & aspects of life I'm passionate about❤ ( especially here on WS )
The negative " stuff " or topics I find upsetting?
Welp, as I've matured I've mastered not sweatin' the small stuff�� I just " don't go there "
I highly recommend this to anyone looking to enhance their wellbeing��

Edited to add:
I always look forward to your posts.
You are always precise, never beating around the bush��

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Hey Dex,
Good to see you too! ❤

Yup. I dislike subtle inferences. (Mainly used to circumvent rules against insulting fellow members, but you can't call out by name, people who are using that tactic, without risking a time out).

I just don't feel I should have to cross a Picket Line just to participate in a forum I enjoy here!

It drags down the energy and pollutes the forum like...well...pollution. Makes it less interesting and more antagonizing. That's a shame.

('Nan Nan NanaNa...SA IS GUILTY' doesn't really add much except ill will IMO!).

Hope everything is good with you, and you too BCA!, (Missy, Proudfoot, Karinna, IDK, CoolJ, Jaiddie, and anyone I missed, who posts in the good intentioned way that makes this forum so Dynamic and Awesome!

Love you guys! Thank you! ❤

 

[dexter75]

Hey Dex,
Good to see you too! ❤

Yup. I dislike subtle inferences. (Mainly used to circumvent rules against insulting fellow members, but you can't call out by name, people who are using that tactic, without risking a time out).

I just don't feel I should have to cross a Picket Line just to participate in a forum I enjoy here!

It drags down the energy and pollutes the forum like...well...pollution. Makes it less interesting and more antagonizing. That's a shame.

('Nan Nan NanaNa...SA IS GUILTY' doesn't really add much except ill will IMO!).

Hope everything is good with you, and you too BCA!, (Missy, Proudfoot, Karina, IDK, CoolJ, Jaddie, and anyone I missed, who posts in the good intentioned way that makes this forum so Dynamic and Awesome!

Love you guys! Thank you! ❤

{{HUGS}}

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[proudfootz]

It's humbling to see my 'nym among so many hardworking, intelligent, and insightful members.

I really only feel I am applying my 'common sense' to the facts as I know them.

 

[Jaiddie]

Hey Dex,
Good to see you too! ❤

Yup. I dislike subtle inferences. (Mainly used to circumvent rules against insulting fellow members, but you can't call out by name, people who are using that tactic, without risking a time out).

I just don't feel I should have to cross a Picket Line just to participate in a forum I enjoy here!

It drags down the energy and pollutes the forum like...well...pollution. Makes it less interesting and more antagonizing. That's a shame.

('Nan Nan NanaNa...SA IS GUILTY' doesn't really add much except ill will IMO!).

Hope everything is good with you, and you too BCA!, (Missy, Proudfoot, Karinna, IDK, CoolJ, Jaiddie, and anyone I missed, who posts in the good intentioned way that makes this forum so Dynamic and Awesome!

Love you guys! Thank you! ❤

:grouphug: :blowkiss:

 

[Safeguard]

It's humbling to see my 'nym among so many hardworking, intelligent, and insightful members.

I really only feel I am applying my 'common sense' to the facts as I know them.

Common sense, a sharp mind, and an interesting view point is what I have come to expect when I see your 'nym.

You're 'In'... don't try to get away!

Common sense is a refreshing change from, "he's guilty because the overwhelming evidence proved to a jury he's guilty!" ("Pay no attention to that little man behind the curtain!)

Thanks for being here. Keep coming!

 

[Limaes]

The 'why' to me is not a remaining question. I believe the murder itself was not pre-planned long in advance and the plan for that occurred to cover up whatever else happened to her.

He seemed fixated on getting TH to come out that day. I think he was attracted to her and was hoping to or intending to act on that attraction. IF TH had been amenable to such an advance by him (yeah, I know, yuck), I don't think he'd have any reason to kill her since if she consented to what SA wanted no crime would have occurred and no reason to cover anything up. She didn't consent to whatever happened and she lost her life in a most brutal and cruel fashion.

In either a book I read or an article detailing an investigative report (can't remember where I read it right now), SA made a sexually aggressive pass at the teenage girlfriend or friend of one of his nephews the day before or within a few days before of TH's murder, suggesting the teen come over to his trailer and they have rough sex. This is while JS is in prison. That bit of info helps inform his state of mind. SA wasn't known for being able to control his impulses and he certainly didn't demonstrate an ability to respect people's personal boundaries.

Yes, I think he had an attraction to her as well. By all accounts, Teresa had a great personality and was not a drama type girl. Perhaps he mistook her friendliness for something more?

I think he did try to act on it on her earlier visit in October and she couldn't hide her fear. We will never know what he said to her that day because she can't speak for herself however, imo, he knew darn well when she left that day that she was not going to give her consent.

Yes, I read about the phone call to the young girl the day before (eww). He seemed to only attract women with low self esteem.

 

[dexter75]

Common sense, a sharp mind, and an interesting view point is what I have come to expect when I see your 'nym.

You're 'In'... don't try to get away!

Common sense is a refreshing change from, "he's guilty because the overwhelming evidence proved to a jury he's guilty!" ("Pay no attention to that little man behind the curtain!)

Thanks for being here. Keep coming!

:ditto: I'm afraid you're stuck with us

 

[missy1974]

It's humbling to see my 'nym among so many hardworking, intelligent, and insightful members.

I really only feel I am applying my 'common sense' to the facts as I know them.

I think that is what most of us are doing proudfootz We all have different life experiences that bring us to certain conclusions, it's sure nice to see some new posters (you included!) and get some new points of view. For some, this case seems to be black and white, for myself and many others its gray (or grey lol), many shades of it.

The implication that most of us have come to our conclusions because we watched MaM is ridiculous (some have never even watched it, right BCA?LOL) MaM brought the issue to light, as for coming to conclusions, speaking for myself, all it took was reading all the documents and the trial transcripts we have available. I also find a lot of what people use to back up their conclusion that SA is guilty, are things that the jury didn't even hear (or shouldn't have heard and taken into consideration), which is interesting.

 

[dexter75]

I suppose we won't know about the alleged motives of the killer(s) until a viable suspect is named. We may have to wait for the judicial process to move along before we learn the results of the defense investigation.

What's difficult to pinpoint is where the initial attack took place - other than IMO near the rear of the RAV4 resulting in the blood splatter on the door.

Teresa was transported in the RAV4 apparently, based on the blood transfer found in the rear compartment.

That Teresa was tracked at the Radant Quarry would indicate part of the crime took place there, most likely the burning of the corpse based on the finding of charred bones there.

So it would appear to me Teresa was attacked somewhere in the vicinity of her vehicle, moved in the RAV4 to the Radant Quarry, where her remains were burned at leisure far from prying eyes.

Subsequently some of the cremains were moved to a couple of locations on the Avery property. This last based on the very credible testimony of Scott Fairgrieve.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...42/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-20-2007Mar09.pdf

Page 138 is where Dr Fairgrieve begins to give an expert opinion regarding the several sites where cremains were recovered.

Thanks for that sir

Just re READING some of that TESTIMONY again..the EXPERT saying in HIS opinion he can NOT rule out the bones being BURNED ELSEWHERE AND MOVED to the location behind SA's. ( for those who think this was such an open and shut case:facepalm: I'd like to know what transcripts THEY're reading?? I'm VERY familiar with how the law works, was written, how a trial works, the roles everyone plays :blah::blah::blah: What I DON'T get ( feel free to explain ANYONE ) is HOW Law Enforcement is above the law? ( for starters ) Talk about how the system is supposed to work. How about that PRESS CONFERENCE? Does it work like that? And with Manitowoc assisting right from the beginning like they so willingly did? GAWD...None of this is out of desperation. Avery is nothing to me. This is about RIGHT and WRONG & not wanting crap like this to be OK ANYWHERE IN AMERICA.

 

[dexter75]

BBM
IMO, It's that simple.

It's humbling to see my 'nym among so many hardworking, intelligent, and insightful members.

I really only feel I am applying my 'common sense' to the facts as I know them.

 

[dexter75]

The question remains, why was Teresa on the RADANT QUARRY property, where she was headed when last seen by any innocent party? There is zero evidence Steven was responsible for her being there. Was Teresa lured to that lonely and isolated place? A much more likely place for a murder and cremation, rather than at a business where clients, family, and friends are going in and out all day and evening long. And evidence indicates that at the times the crimes were allegedly committed, Steven was not at the RADANT QUARRY where she was tracked, but at home fielding phone calls all evening.

There is a pretty good track record of perfectly innocent visits by Teresa to the Avery Salvage Yard. So there is no compelling reason to suggest that when Barb was selling her van that this visit was any different than on any other occasion. However, I am not aware of any reason why Teresa would be at the RADANT QUARRY.

The point remains, the State was allowed to be vague about where the alleged crime took place, and had no responsibility to address motive. The defense had to meet greater burdens of proof than the prosecution, requiring both motive and restricted to people present at Avery Salvage on the assumption that is where a murder occurred.

The notion that Steven has to 'prove' his innocence goes against the basic principle of justice that one is innocent until proven guilty.

Anyone care to answer this? Comments?

 

[Karinna]

.
I believe KZ said she had a suspect that was high on her list. I don't believe she said she knows who the killer is. JMHO

The burning question I have is why leave her on your own property. There are thousands of acres of agricultural land nearby. That doesn't make sense to me. Ok~~I get it~~you don't want to be seen somewhere else. BUT~~in the middle of the night, SA could have gone to the quarry, could have gone to the deer camp and disposed of the remains. It doesn't make sense that he burned her on his own property and left the remains in his fire pit. Even if he did burn TH in the quarry, it doesn't make sense that he would bring the remains back to his doorstep.

SA was incarcerated for a long time, surely he had conversations with other prisoners about their crimes. Surely, these unscrupulous people enlightened him in their ways. I don't believe he wasn't smart enough to not leave evidence at his doorstep.

All JMHO.

Hi BCA, Yes my bad, this is what she said:
(quote)
“They used forensic science to convict [Avery], and I’ll be using it to convict them of planting the evidence,” she continues. “I think it’s pretty obvious that the blood evidence was planted, and the key was planted. The hood latch, I believe evidence was planted on the hood latch. Am I surprised this happened? Not at all.”

As for that new suspect, she’s hesitate to say exactly who she’s looking at, because, “there’s one, leading the pack by a lot. But I don’t want to scare him off, I don’t want him to run.” Supposedly (~supposedly~) Halbach made two phone calls to a man in Arizona shortly before midnight two days before she was killed. Present day, that man was just recently charged with a sex crime, so he might be the new prime suspect.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/steven-avery-lawyer-thinks-killed-234721638.html?ref=gs

 

[Karinna]

Hey Dex,
Good to see you too! ❤

Yup. I dislike subtle inferences. (Mainly used to circumvent rules against insulting fellow members, but you can't call out by name, people who are using that tactic, without risking a time out).

I just don't feel I should have to cross a Picket Line just to participate in a forum I enjoy here!

It drags down the energy and pollutes the forum like...well...pollution. Makes it less interesting and more antagonizing. That's a shame.

('Nan Nan NanaNa...SA IS GUILTY' doesn't really add much except ill will IMO!).

Hope everything is good with you, and you too BCA!, (Missy, Proudfoot, Karinna, IDK, CoolJ, Jaiddie, and anyone I missed, who posts in the good intentioned way that makes this forum so Dynamic and Awesome!

Love you guys! Thank you! ❤

Thankyou Safeguard for your thoughtful post. Hope all is good with you too, and all the other peeps that make it a pleasure to post here as well,:loveyou:

 

[Karinna]

Thanks for that sir

Just re READING some of that TESTIMONY again..the EXPERT saying in HIS opinion he can NOT rule out the bones being BURNED ELSEWHERE AND MOVED to the location behind SA's. ( for those who think this was such an open and shut case:facepalm: I'd like to know what transcripts THEY're reading?? I'm VERY familiar with how the law works, was written, how a trial works, the roles everyone plays :blah::blah::blah: What I DON'T get ( feel free to explain ANYONE ) is HOW Law Enforcement is above the law? ( for starters ) Talk about how the system is supposed to work. How about that PRESS CONFERENCE? Does it work like that? And with Manitowoc assisting right from the beginning like they so willingly did? GAWD...None of this is out of desperation. Avery is nothing to me. This is about RIGHT and WRONG & not wanting crap like this to be OK ANYWHERE IN AMERICA.

BBM, I agree Dexter, and if this case sets a precedence anywhere that is not Justice it is Injustice for a sloppy investigation to wrongfully convict someone, because then that is the working for corruption, of which most people have already had enough of. And so many of our human rights have already been stolen or manufactured against us by those that would deny us our human rights, in the USA and globally. All IMO.

 

[Karinna]

I also think if it wasn't for Brendan Dassey's coerced confession, if SA would ever of been found guilty of killing Teresa Halbach? They seemed very much to rely on that confession by BD, IMO.
Wonder why they took BD into custody to question him? What made them think BD had anything to do with TH?

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I think that is what most of us are doing proudfootz We all have different life experiences that bring us to certain conclusions, it's sure nice to see some new posters (you included!) and get some new points of view. For some, this case seems to be black and white, for myself and many others its gray (or grey lol), many shades of it.

The implication that most of us have come to our conclusions because we watched MaM is ridiculous (some have never even watched it, right BCA?LOL) MaM brought the issue to light, as for coming to conclusions, speaking for myself, all it took was reading all the documents and the trial transcripts we have available. I also find a lot of what people use to back up their conclusion that SA is guilty, are things that the jury didn't even hear (or shouldn't have heard and taken into consideration), which is interesting.

.
Hi Missy :seeya:!

I finally watched it 8 months later. Dexter always says she doesn't think he did it because he has admitted to everything he has done~~good or bad. I think that what was tipped me over the fence as well as a few other things as well. But, my experience with people up in those neck of the woods has been just that~~no matter what bad thing they've done, they usually admit it. It's really hard to explain. You can have hardened criminals, but they will still hold the door for the elderly. There is a kind of respect, kind of a longstanding code, if you will. Not sure I'm explaining it fully so everyone understands.

In other news, the Green Bay Packers won tonight. Yeah!

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I also think if it wasn't for Brendan Dassey's coerced confession, if SA would ever of been found guilty of killing Teresa Halbach? They seemed very much to rely on that confession by BD, IMO.
Wonder why they took BD into custody to question him? What made them think BD had anything to do with TH?

.
IIRC, it was a statement made by his cousin to her school counselor. Missy probably has it at her fingertips though.LOL

 

[missy1974]

.
IIRC, it was a statement made by his cousin to her school counselor. Missy probably has it at her fingertips though.LOL

Well.... LOL

KA's first interview took place on February 20th http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=434

Her second interview was on March 7th http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=692


Look for yourselves to see the difference. Also note.... anyone surprised who was with Wiegert during the first interview and what the content of the interview was? Seems to be a theme with that specific officer. JMO So many problems with these interviews but again JMO.

I will also say JMO but I have read KA's posts about this, and I believe she did make up what was in these interviews.

Oh and... Mid February 2006 is when SA settled his civil suit and retained Strang. IIRC Buting came on board the first week in March, at least on paper, not sure if he was in the picture right away or not.

I think BD was an easy target (as evidenced by his first interview, how he changed his story after being lied to about the bus driver and ALL the kids), I think he was an alibi witness for SA that evening, and they couldn't have that, I think it morphed into something way more than they even expected. Again, JMO.

 

[proudfootz]

Well before Brendan was seen being depressed about losing his girlfriend police were treating Brendan like a suspect. The Nov 6 interrogation where police are leading him to make false and incriminating statements points the way to all their interactions with him. Knowing they can bully him into saying whatever they want must have been reassuring that by hook or by crook they were going to nail Steven.