MaM a Year Later - Reconstruct the Crime

[BigCityAccountant]

You are too kind BCA lol I just patted you on the back haha

I wasn't convinced that Manitowoc County owned the property back in 2005, happy that you were able to confirm it I hate unanswered questions!

Now the shot gun shells and other evidence collected around that area can be found on page 172 of the CASO report.

other notable evidence collected:

Property Tag#8429 - Map page with MapQuest on it of the immediate area at N44
degrees 15.020 and W87 degrees 47.215, collected at 0913 hours
Property Tag#8426 - Arrow with an expandable tip broad head at N44 degrees
15.218 and W87 degrees 47.476, collected at 1006 hours
Property Tag #83 10 - Paper towel with blood on it at N44 degrees 15.254 and W87
degrees 41.494, collected at 1525 hours
Property Tag #8311 - Pair of blue jeans with a hair fiber at N44 degrees 15.244 and
W87 degrees 41.606, collected at 1620 hours
Properly Tag #83 72 - One pair of black pants with hair fiber at N44 degrees 15.244
and W87 degrees 4I.606, collected at 1605 hours

and then to end the report...

At approximately 1630 hours, Sgt. BILL TYSON, Deputy NICHOLAS J. SABLICH and I
recovered two burn barrels from the AVERY property. One of those was marked burn barrel #4.

RH printed off maps. Finding a Mapquest map of the immediate area, is odd.
Arrow tip???
Jeans? Black pants? Bloody papertowel? If this is the same area that the pelvic bone was found, I want more information.

And those dang burn barrels... they were there, they were gone, they were taken back, they were picked up again... it's a mess.

Oh and did I mention, this evidence was also found, and the burn barrels picked up late in the day on.... NOVEMBER 8TH. Seems to be a lucky day for investigators that day. JMO

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I'll have to look up those locations when I have some time...

Arrow tip~~that says bow hunting to me. Bow season opens before Deer Season. Wait~~deer season with a gun~~wasn't even open yet...it doesn't open until mid-November....

 

[dexter75]

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I do, but its not going to be a popular one with the Pro-Guilty folks...LOL

Ikr
Hahahaha!

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[Safeguard]

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I do, but its not going to be a popular one with the Pro-Guilty folks...LOL

Heh... Nothing ever is... except... Steven Avery...He killed a cat once.

 

[missy1974]

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I'll have to look up those locations when I have some time...

Arrow tip~~that says bow hunting to me. Bow season opens before Deer Season. Wait~~deer season with a gun~~wasn't even open yet...it doesn't open until mid-November....

I am pretty sure they are all within that area. Bow season, yep. Remember BoD and ST were going hunting that day.

I am not sure what to think of the shell casings, the bow, or anything else. I am going to assume that in the area, guns and hunting are common, so it might not be anything out of the ordinary. Although, I don't recall casings being picked up like that anywhere else or in any other quarries that they searched, which, they say they searched them all. It could be that we don't have those reports.... or it could be that they didn't find anything of significance elsewhere. Maybe they only searched this area like they did because of that ilium bone?

and that ilium bone... anyone else bothered by the fact that an anthropologist wasn't able to determine if it was human? Which leaves a possibility that it is human. And if the State maintains that it's not TH's, then who does that bone belong too? They know it's TH's IMO But they can't admit it because that would mess with their whole theory and BD's confession. So frustrating.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I am pretty sure they are all within that area. Bow season, yep. Remember BoD and ST were going hunting that day.

I am not sure what to think of the shell casings, the bow, or anything else. I am going to assume that in the area, guns and hunting are common, so it might not be anything out of the ordinary. Although, I don't recall casings being picked up like that anywhere else or in any other quarries that they searched, which, they say they searched them all. It could be that we don't have those reports.... or it could be that they didn't find anything of significance elsewhere. Maybe they only searched this area like they did because of that ilium bone?

and that ilium bone... anyone else bothered by the fact that an anthropologist wasn't able to determine if it was human? Which leaves a possibility that it is human. And if the State maintains that it's not TH's, then who does that bone belong too? They know it's TH's IMO But they can't admit it because that would mess with their whole theory and BD's confession. So frustrating.

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It's funny~~you can read something and think nothing of it~~then go back and say...hey wait a minute~~what was that again. Yes, it would be common to the area~~both bow and gun hunting is a way of life there. I want to know more about the location it was found in relation to the quarry, so I'm off to sleuth it.

 

[Karinna]

Heh... Nothing ever is... except... Steven Avery...He killed a cat once.

Oh yeah the poor cat. When i first read about that it brought to mind when we were kids and how some of the neighbourhood kids used to tie fireworks to a cat's tail and light the fireworks up and the cat used to go crazy and the kids thought it was funny. Then in some countries they eat cats & dogs and even hamsters and is their staple diet as far as meat goes. I don't really know how to explain man's brutality against living things, but it's not just the inhumane treatment of animals but the cruelty and brutality than human beings perpetrate on other human beings as well. It seems to be something inherent in humans.

 

[Karinna]

I am pretty sure they are all within that area. Bow season, yep. Remember BoD and ST were going hunting that day.

I am not sure what to think of the shell casings, the bow, or anything else. I am going to assume that in the area, guns and hunting are common, so it might not be anything out of the ordinary. Although, I don't recall casings being picked up like that anywhere else or in any other quarries that they searched, which, they say they searched them all. It could be that we don't have those reports.... or it could be that they didn't find anything of significance elsewhere. Maybe they only searched this area like they did because of that ilium bone?

and that ilium bone... anyone else bothered by the fact that an anthropologist wasn't able to determine if it was human? Which leaves a possibility that it is human. And if the State maintains that it's not TH's, then who does that bone belong too? They know it's TH's IMO But they can't admit it because that would mess with their whole theory and BD's confession. So frustrating.

BBM, I find the bone fragments to be very perplexing in this case and i really don't know what to think about any of it. From previous links i have posted on the Bones thread, and had researched into a human body when burned to that extent would of had its DNA destroyed. And i think usually when a victim has been badly burned through whatever means, that they are usually identified through dental records, which i would imagine would be from a full set of teeth. But we know that wasn't what was recovered evidence from TH. If i recall correctly it was only a very minute part of some tooth fragment?

 

[Safeguard]

Oh yeah the poor cat. When i first read about that it brought to mind when we were kids and how some of the neighbourhood kids used to tie fireworks to a cat's tail and light the fireworks up and the cat used to go crazy and the kids thought it was funny. Then in some countries they eat cats & dogs and even hamsters and is their staple diet as far as meat goes. I don't really know how to explain man's brutality against living things, but it's not just the inhumane treatment of animals but the cruelty and brutality than human beings perpetrate on other human beings as well. It seems to be something inherent in humans.

Immature people do stupid chit. And sometimes, years later, they have trouble explaining, even to themselves, why they did what they did. As far as we know, SA never engaged in animal abuse, before or after, that ONE drunken incident. IMO that does not add up to a sadistic killer, horrific though it was. I would bet the farm that he was not the only young man to torture a cat, (as evidenced by your firework example). I could tell some equally horrific stories about cat abuse, from my neck of the woods also, but none of the immature young men, I know of grew up to be murders.

"Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone"

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Immature people do stupid chit. And sometimes, years later, they have trouble explaining, even to themselves, why they did what they did. As far as we know, SA never engaged in animal abuse, before or after, that ONE drunken incident. IMO that does not add up to a sadistic killer, horrific though it was. I would bet the farm that he was not the only young man to torture a cat, (as evidenced by your firework example). I could tell some equally horrific stories about cat abuse, from my neck of the woods also, but none of the immature young men, I know of grew up to be murders.

"Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone"

It's like when a man gets drunk and beats his wife once. That doesn't make him a killer. It could be him doing something stupid one time and not a sign of a violent tendency. JMO

 

[Karinna]

Immature people do stupid chit. And sometimes, years later, they have trouble explaining, even to themselves, why they did what they did. As far as we know, SA never engaged in animal abuse, before or after, that ONE drunken incident. IMO that does not add up to a sadistic killer, horrific though it was. I would bet the farm that he was not the only young man to torture a cat, (as evidenced by your firework example). I could tell some equally horrific stories about cat abuse, from my neck of the woods also, but none of the immature young men, I know of grew up to be murders.

"Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone"

Yes i agree. I know my brother didn't torture any cats when we were kids, and my mother had four cats, but he used to catch flying insects sometimes and pull their wings off. He is now the most generous and nice person and a loving dad to his children and would do anything to help a person. So yes kids and teens/young adults do stupid stuff but grow into fine and responsible adults. But there are always exceptions to anything.

 

[Karinna]

It's like when a man gets drunk and beats his wife once. That doesn't make him a killer. It could be him doing something stupid one time and not a sign of a violent tendency. JMO

Well it is a known fact that alcohol can make people very aggressive and violent and those people shouldn't drink it IMO. Sometimes it can also depend on what you drink and the effect it has on the brain. Some people can drink beer or wine but not spirits and vice versa. It just depends on the body's reaction to any of it.

 

[Safeguard]

It's like when a man gets drunk and beats his wife once. That doesn't make him a killer. It could be him doing something stupid one time and not a sign of a violent tendency. JMO

I don't know if your being sarcastic or not ranch, but taking your post at face value...One incident of violence with no past, or future incidences, does not make a person "violent" by nature. It is indeed "out of character". IMO

If a sadistic psychopathic killer, who has killed numerous times, commits a single act of kindness, would we characterize such a person as a benevolent good do-er who will undoubtedly commit future acts that will qualify for sainthood?? No. It takes a pattern of repetitive, (often) escalating behavior to establish the nature of an individual.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I don't know if your being sarcastic or not ranch, but taking your post at face value...One incident of violence with no past, or future incidences, does not make a person "violent" by nature. it is indeed "out of character". IMO

If a sadistic psychopathic killer, who has killed numerous times, commits a single act of kindness, we would not characterize such a person, as a benevolent good do-er? No. It takes a pattern of repetitive, escalating behavior to establish the nature of an individual.

I'm not being sarcastic.

Obviously one act of violence by a person doesn't mean that their going to commit more acts of violence at a later time. But evidence of prior acts of violence could mean that a person is capable of committing such acts.

Torturing an animal or beating your wife is not directly related to the propensity of killing someone IMO.

 

[proudfootz]

I am pretty sure they are all within that area. Bow season, yep. Remember BoD and ST were going hunting that day.

I am not sure what to think of the shell casings, the bow, or anything else. I am going to assume that in the area, guns and hunting are common, so it might not be anything out of the ordinary. Although, I don't recall casings being picked up like that anywhere else or in any other quarries that they searched, which, they say they searched them all. It could be that we don't have those reports.... or it could be that they didn't find anything of significance elsewhere. Maybe they only searched this area like they did because of that ilium bone?

and that ilium bone... anyone else bothered by the fact that an anthropologist wasn't able to determine if it was human? Which leaves a possibility that it is human. And if the State maintains that it's not TH's, then who does that bone belong too? They know it's TH's IMO But they can't admit it because that would mess with their whole theory and BD's confession. So frustrating.

BBM

It would be one more amazing coincidence if there was a different person whose corpse was burned to the same level of calcification as those supposedly found on the Avery property.

Maybe rural Wisconsin is just littered with cremains and to find some you only have to look.

 

[proudfootz]

Immature people do stupid chit. And sometimes, years later, they have trouble explaining, even to themselves, why they did what they did. As far as we know, SA never engaged in animal abuse, before or after, that ONE drunken incident. IMO that does not add up to a sadistic killer, horrific though it was. I would bet the farm that he was not the only young man to torture a cat, (as evidenced by your firework example). I could tell some equally horrific stories about cat abuse, from my neck of the woods also, but none of the immature young men, I know of grew up to be murders.

"Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone"

The isolated incident involving the cat was carried out by three people, only one of whom owned up to it and accepted punishment for it.

As it's already been shown that the theory that animal abuse is an indicator of future murderers is junk science, this amounts to nothing (horrible as it is).

 

[Limaes]

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I do, but its not going to be a popular one with the Pro-Guilty folks...LOL

Go for it. Always interested to see evidence of framing or how anyone BUT SA killed Teresa.

 

[Limaes]

The isolated incident involving the cat was carried out by three people, only one of whom owned up to it and accepted punishment for it.

As it's already been shown that the theory that animal abuse is an indicator of future murderers is junk science, this amounts to nothing (horrible as it is).

IIRC, it was carried out by 1 person but the idea came from 2. One of which was remorseful. Jmo I don't understand why it is not accepted for what it was. It was cruel. Why defend or diminish it?

 

[proudfootz]

Yes, Steven was remorseful and accepted punishment for what the group did. The other got off scot-free.

In any case it was a one-off deed, a horrible one (as I mentioned before), and has nothing to do with this case. Nothing.

 

[dexter75]

IIRC, it was carried out by 1 person but the idea came from 2. One of which was remorseful. Jmo I don't understand why it is not accepted for what it was. It was cruel. Why defend or diminish it?

Who has defended it??

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[BigCityAccountant]

Go for it. Always interested to see evidence of framing or how anyone BUT SA killed Teresa.

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I'm more interested in knowing what you think that happened? Why take the barrels then return them?