Marauding pit bulls attack six - 10 year old boy, Critical

[Casshew]

Ya have to appreciate the work that has gone into that!

LOL they are as tenatious as a pit bull!

 

[Juan Martinez]

No, I never said anything like that. I have no idea how long the breed has been around.

I had two bad attacks in my neighbourhood, one killing a 13 year old girl who had her throat torn out. Another was a very serious injury to a 5 year old girl who was out walking with her mom and 3 year old sister.

I follow cases of pit bull attacks or pit bull mix, attacks.

I am well aware that biting is a natural behavior in all dogs and smaller dogs can bite even more. Having said that, deaths or greivious injuries do not usually occur with most breeds as they do with Pits & pit mixes.

Thankfully I live where this breed is banned and it is my hope that many communites will take on this legislation.

have you ever heard of the canary dog? or for which the name that is commonly used the presa canario? or how bout the cane corso?

all these dogs HAVE killed people in the past and with the most recent attack held in san fransisco.

again, your theory is flawed just by the simple fact, this breed was NEVER bred for human aggression. have you ever bothered to look at the breeds description that is listed in registries? such as the UKC and the AKC?

that human aggression that is being displayed by these so called pit bulls simply QUESTIONS THE FACT if they are even pure bred!!!

there was a fad that was developed by morons years ago...they tried to come up with color fads and one of them were in fact called "merles"...this color gene could NEVER pop up within the APBT, but yet these guys were breeding the APBT to the catahoula hog dog...which HAS been bred to be human aggro. you can see evidence of such breeders by looking at their websites, they usually have in big bold lettering "blues for sale" or "merle pit bulls for sale"

by that alone, that is proof its NOT the APBT, but ignorant breeders and owners who are to blame....they are breeding mutts..not APBT's..and its NOT the APBT gene that is causing the human aggression...look into those breed descritions..and take the time to educate yourself before you cast your hate all in one direction.

again, i have taken the time to educate myself about this breed for years, and i have been around it for allot longer...so you would think what i am saying should be taken into consideration...

ALSO i encourage you to look on the ATTS website, which they have on RECORD, how this breeds temperament actually compares to others...here is their website: atts.org

 

[Casshew]

again, i have taken the time to educate myself about this breed for years, and i have been around it for allot longer...so you would think what i am saying should be taken into consideration...

and thats probably why you're not dead

and I am terrified of this breed and thats probably why I'm not dead - because I am informed and careful.

A 13 year old girl - with her whole life ahead of her - was torn apart in a park - are you so desensitzed that you cannot feel the horror of that situation - instead of turning to books and statistics and surveys to try defend these monsters?

Sorry, you are barking up the wrong tree - IMO, there is no place for an animal like this in communites with children.

You can go back to your books and articles and studies - all the information is not helpful to anyone facing reconstructive surgery or a grieving parents who's child was savaged under a swing set.

 

[Juan Martinez]

and thats probably why you're not dead

and I am terrified of this breed and thats probably why I'm not dead - because I am informed and careful.

A 13 year old girl - with her whole life ahead of her - was torn apart in a park - are you so desensitzed that you cannot feel the horror of that situation - instead of turning to books and statistics and surveys to try defend these monsters?

Sorry, you are barking up the wrong tree - IMO, there is no place for an animal like this in communites with children.

You can go back to your books and articles and studies - all the information is not helpful to anyone facing reconstructive surgery or a grieving parents who's child was savaged under a swing set.

you arent READING what i am saying...you continue to say its the "pit bull's fault" but what i am trying to tell you is thats its NOT...i will bet my whole paycheck that was NOT a purebred APBT...again...its not within their natural instinct to be human aggressive...what dont you get about it?

and i am alive because i deal with PURE BRED AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIERS...not these mutts perclaiming to be "pit bulls"

poor breeding practices and ignorant owners are to blame...not the dogs...

most of those people cant even tell if the dog has a bad temperament let alone being bred.

and you are not informed...you are strongly misinformed...

and these so called monsters have better temperaments than the saint bernard..and are in fact better than MOST breeds...

and just like any other large breed of dog, most people dont even qulify in my book to be rightfull owners of said breed or any large breed of dog for that matter.

yet you have NO CLUE how long this breed has been in existance...but yet, you KNOW they are monsters...very interesting...and you call that being informed?

 

[SnootyVixen]

Notice these attacks seem to happen when there are more than one pit bull in the household. Sometimes it could be one pit bull, but dogs of other breeds in the house. ?

I Think you have got it correct here BarnGoddess. I know of friends two little tiny dogs. Each time they run to bark at someone or dog they go into a freak frenzy condition and then turn on each other and fight themselves!! And harm themselfs badly, one time an eyeball out on the face.
And they are the tiny Yorkshire Terriers. Most time they love each other.

 

[Casshew]

Thats very true, many attacks are multiple dogs. They work each other up into a frenzy. Very dangerous.

 

[Sassygerl]

Thats very true, many attacks are multiple dogs. They work each other up into a frenzy. Very dangerous.

Yeah, the "pack" mentality is scary!!!! When you have owners who are not the "alpha male" in the dog's eyes, there will be trouble....regardless of the breed. We have 3 males dogs, and we definitely are the "alpha male" in their eyes. If not, they will take over and bad things happen!

 

[SadieMae]

...

the UNEDUCATED and the misinformed are the problems...not breeding practices...just because you bred fifi and fofo in your backyard does NOT make you an expert in breeding. it takes years and dedication on educating yourself about genetics and the breed itself.

That's what I'm talking about! But sadly I don't think that's being done and therin lies the problem. People are buying those fifi and fofo dogs and they are about as uneducated about the breed as the people they buy the dogs from.

 

[Casshew]

Even my cats get like that (I have 3) when our dog barks at something - all the cats come out going psycho - it is probably just instinctive behavior.

(Disclaimer: My cats have never killed anyone)

 

[Juan Martinez]

That's what I'm talking about! But sadly I don't think that's being done and therin lies the problem. People are buying those fifi and fofo dogs and they are about as uneducated about the breed as the people they buy the dogs from.

if the government wants to make a difference, what they need to do INSTEAD of destroying a WHOLE breed of dog..is make more restrictions on the breeders...have them cover qualifications prior to any breeding, such as TT/CGC test the sire and dam prior to any breeding, also have health test requirements, such as OFA/PENNHIP, and have limited breedings per year.

MOST ethical and reputable breeders do these things already...so it shouldnt effect the "good" people, but in fact shows who the bad people are...

and this should be for every breed of dog...NOT just the APBT/AMSTAFF.

i know of breeders that keep track of every single dog that they have produced from their kennel, not ONE has ever showed any signs of aggression towards humans, and if so...they would cull the dog and would spay and or neuture every dog in that dogs litter and wont ever breed that sire and or dam ever again....and these people have been breeding these dogs for well over 20 years...responsibly

again, just by attacking the breed WONT solve the problem...they will simply get a bigger and badder breed of dog...and believe me they are out there!!!

just like how they moved from the GSD, to the DOBE and ROTT and now finally they have moved onto the APBT/AMSTAFF...when will anybody see what is actually going on..and who is actually to blame!!!

 

[Sassygerl]

Even my cats get like that (I have 3) when our dog barks at something - all the cats come out going psycho - it is probably just instinctive behavior.

(Disclaimer: My cats have never killed anyone)

LOL......yeah animals can be nutty. With dogs though seriously as an owner you must be the "alpha male" in their eyes. Many dogs see you that way anyway, but some need training to see you that way. My dogs cower the minute I raise my hand.....I know while they are big dogs I am in control. My cat, however, is trying to train them as well that she is the Queen around here!

 

[SadieMae]

if the government wants to make a difference, what they need to do INSTEAD of destroying a WHOLE breed of dog..is make more restrictions on the breeders...have them cover qualifications prior to any breeding, such as TT/CGC test the sire and dam prior to any breeding, also have health test requirements, such as OFA/PENNHIP, and have limited breedings per year.

MOST ethical and reputable breeders do these things already...so it shouldnt effect the "good" people, but in fact shows who the bad people are...

and this should be for every breed of dog...NOT just the APBT/AMSTAFF.

i know of breeders that keep track of every single dog that they have produced from their kennel, not ONE has ever showed any signs of aggression towards humans, and if so...they would cull the dog and would spay and or neuture every dog in that dogs litter and wont ever breed that sire and or dam ever again....and these people have been breeding these dogs for well over 20 years...responsibly

again, just by attacking the breed WONT solve the problem...they will simply get a bigger and badder breed of dog...and believe me they are out there!!!

Juan, that would be the ideal solution. There are already restrictions and laws forbidding other things, and that only moves it underground. On a another thread on this subject I had mentioned that these breeders only sell puppies that have been spayed/neutered unless they are selling to a member of a breeders association or something. Many of the dogs sold by these breeders are stolen and used to breed with less desireable ones. I know someone who had a 6 mo pit puppy they bought from a reputable breeder stolen from their backyard and who knows where it ended up and for what purposes. My son told about people he knows stealing puppies or young dogs to train for fighting and/or to breed. My first Dane puppy was already neutered when I bought him from the breeder. He was from a championship/show dog lineage but was not show quality. (He was a gorgeous dog to me! )Since you say the problem dogs are not purebred ones, seems the APBT breeders would also do this.

 

[Casshew]

One of our cats (Smokey) when she meows at Ambush - Ambush hits the deck, flat out on the floor and lies still while smokey licks her muzzle, eyes & ears and rubs against her. It's the sweetest thing.

I don't think Smokey would try that with a Pitbull!

 

[reb]

to all those who say "banning pit bulls WON'T solve the problem":

banning handguns in schools won't completely solve the problem of psycho kids shooting people either... but would you rather have that be legal or illegal, to bring a gun to school........???

 

[Juan Martinez]

Juan, that would be the ideal solution. There are already restrictions and laws forbidding other things, and that only moves it underground. On a another thread on this subject I had mentioned that these breeders only sell puppies that have been spayed/neutered unless they are selling to a member of a breeders association or something. Many of the dogs sold by these breeders are stolen and used to breed with less desireable ones. I know someone who had a 6 mo pit puppy they bought from a reputable breeder stolen from their backyard and who knows where it ended up and for what purposes. My son told about people he knows stealing puppies or young dogs to train for fighting and/or to breed. My first Dane puppy was already neutered when I bought him from the breeder. He was from a championship/show dog lineage but was not show quality. (He was a gorgeous dog to me! )Since you say the problem dogs are not purebred ones, seems the APBT breeders would also do this.

first, i need to know one thing before you use your story as an example...what do you think is a reputale breeder? MANY breeders SAY they are, when in fact they are the problem.

i say the breeder can sell an intact puppy, but MOST reputable and ethical breeders sell their dogs on contracts. in fact it is very common. they usually dont neuture/spay a dog if it is a possible show prospect, or a working prospect. if the dog doesnt cover any of those avenues, then he or she is usually sold with a neuture or spay contract, and if the dog is in fact a show/working prospect, they are also sold with strict guidlines that are covered within the contract.

if the breeders are doing what i said above, and they are restricted on the amount of litters they can produce on an annual basis...that should cover all alogations.

and there really isnt a breeders association...and i dont know what you are talking about when referring to underground...

and dogs being stolen has been a rare occasion...again, that falls back on the dogs being registered..

if you want i can go into detail on how a dog is suppose to be registered...

i dont see how a dog can be filtered back in if the gov has breeders regulated according to their registries. you just cant get a dog and get him or her registered...it doesnt work that way for clarification.

if you want me to explain in detail how the registration process works and how it CAN be regulated....i will with no probs...but like i said, i REALLY dont see how anything can be corrupted. if the said individuals want to steal a dog and breed him or her without actual written documentation and TRY and register such pups with the gov(if such law was passed)...that would be a long shot in hell.

also MANY breeders have such strict contracts...its a long shot for anybody to do something without the approval of the said breeder.

again it falls back onto irresponsible breeders and owners alike.

 

[SadieMae]

first, i need to know one thing before you use your story as an example...what do you think is a reputale breeder? MANY breeders SAY they are, when in fact they are the problem.

Isn't there some kind of APBT groups, clubs, national association of APBT breeders? If not maybe there should be. So when you have said reputable breeder in your previous posts, then that would be your opinion of the breeder? In other words there is no standard among breeders now?

i say the breeder can sell an intact puppy, but MOST reputable and ethical breeders sell their dogs on contracts. in fact it is very common. they usually dont neuture/spay a dog if it is a possible show prospect, or a working prospect. if the dog doesnt cover any of those avenues, then he or she is usually sold with a neuture or spay contract, and if the dog is in fact a show/working prospect, they are also sold with strict guidlines that are covered within the contract.

if the breeders are doing what i said above, and they are restricted on the amount of litters they can produce on an annual basis...that should cover all alogations.

Since there don't seem to be guidelines for reputable breeder and no governing body of breeders for enforcement, whose overseeing the above things are done per the contracts? Who enforces if it's not?

and there really isnt a breeders association...and i dont know what you are talking about when referring to underground...

and dogs being stolen has been a rare occasion...again, that falls back on the dogs being registered..

if you want i can go into detail on how a dog is suppose to be registered...

You don't know what I mean by underground? Meaning the criminal element, lowlifes that breed and fight the dogs. Illegal activities associated with the dogs. Don't need to go into how registration can be done, a way around it will be found guaranteed.

i dont see how a dog can be filtered back in if the gov has breeders regulated according to their registries. you just cant get a dog and get him or her registered...it doesnt work that way for clarification.

if you want me to explain in detail how the registration process works and how it CAN be regulated....i will with no probs...but like i said, i REALLY dont see how anything can be corrupted. if the said individuals want to steal a dog and breed him or her without actual written documentation and TRY and register such pups with the gov(if such law was passed)...that would be a long shot in hell.

also MANY breeders have such strict contracts...its a long shot for anybody to do something without the approval of the said breeder.

What planet are you on? Excuse me but someone who's raising those dogs to fight don't give a d*mn about gov regulations or breeder contracts. The already know it's illegal to fight dogs, that hasn't stopped them! They won't be the ones lining up to get their dogs registered. If the illegal drug trade can't be regulated, neither can dogs. And no it's not a rare occasion the dogs are stolen, happens all the time in cities with dog fighting rings. I already see a way aroud the breeder contract. I can just tell them the dog was stolen, no more contract. Breed it and sell the puppies in any ghetto because they won't be registering them.

 

[Juan Martinez]

Isn't there some kind of APBT groups, clubs, national association of APBT breeders? If not maybe there should be. So when you have said reputable breeder in your previous posts, then that would be your opinion of the breeder? In other words there is no standard among breeders now?

Since there don't seem to be guidelines for reputable breeder and no governing body of breeders for enforcement, whose overseeing the above things are done per the contracts? Who enforces if it's not?


You don't know what I mean by underground? Meaning the criminal element, lowlifes that breed and fight the dogs. Illegal activities associated with the dogs. Don't need to go into how registration can be done, a way around it will be found guaranteed.

What planet are you on? Excuse me but someone who's raising those dogs to fight don't give a d*mn about gov regulations or breeder contracts. The already know it's illegal to fight dogs, that hasn't stopped them! They won't be the ones lining up to get their dogs registered. If the illegal drug trade can't be regulated, neither can dogs. And no it's not a rare occasion the dogs are stolen, happens all the time in cities with dog fighting rings. I already see a way aroud the breeder contract. I can just tell them the dog was stolen, no more contract. Breed it and sell the puppies in any ghetto because they won't be registering them.

there is a standard..and yes i am aware of the fact that people will still fight dogs...they will still fight them if they are banned or not!! do people still speed? do people still sell drugs even though its illegal? do people still commit murder? except people who speed can just get a ticket and plede not guilty and live another day...the all out ban basicly is telling me i cant own my dogs anymore and the breed should be wiped off the face of the planet just because people failed to educate themselfs...im sorry thats not acceptable.

come on people..banning the breed is not the answer..

and its called small claims court when the owner doesnt obide by the contracts they have signed...

its a simple process and it has been going on for many years..lol you sign a contract and if you break those guidlines that are described within the contract..then the originator can sue you for whatever the concequences may be. which has been done many times in the past.

and like i said before...if there are dogs being illegaly bred (if the gov would have went the way that was described before)..then the city/gov may take the dogs...its like asking a driver for his or her liscense..if they dont have one...then boom its gone. if people dont want to abide by the rules, then they will face the concequences...and for once, it will be the bad people who do...not the good peeps. you will have corruption...but how far would you want to take the rights of the american people to stop SOME not ALL?

so if they did take those regulations into consideration...i think that will have a bigger impact than banning the breed...by banning the breed you are punishing those that have been doing right by the breed for many many years...not just the so called gangsters and drug dealers you are saying that tends to only own this breed of dog. remember, good citizens of this country also owns this breed of dog and many represent this breed well...YOU just dont see it cause the media doesnt tend to think GOOD publicity is good ratings...unfortunately BAD publicity is good ratings..

and thats my point...YOU WILL NEVER be able to regulate the corrupt without sacrificing the rest of the good samaritans. so do you honestly think its right to put blame on ONE breed for HUMANS wrong doings?

 

[nanandjim]

The CNN article says, "The attack in the Denver suburb of Aurora came two days after the City Council banned pit bulls and other "fighting dogs." Owners who already had the dogs could keep them if they paid a $200 annual license fee."

I think that this is ridiculous. The owners should have to get rid of the dogs. These dogs have proven time and time again that they are a danger to society. Even if they seem gentle, they can turn on you in an instant.

IMO, no one in his/her right mind would own a pit bull.

 

[Casshew]

The CNN article says, "The attack in the Denver suburb of Aurora came two days after the City Council banned pit bulls and other "fighting dogs." Owners who already had the dogs could keep them if they paid a $200 annual license fee."

I think that this is ridiculous. The owners should have to get rid of the dogs. These dogs have proven time and time again that they are a danger to society. Even if they seem gentle, they can turn on you in an instant.

IMO, no one in his/her right mind would own a pit bull.

Hi Minnie!

It's better than nothing, and once those dogs die off - the owners are not allowed new ones. Also, I believe they have to be spayed/neutered.

At least it's its a move in the right direction for future generations

 

[curlytone]

Maybe this analogy will help people understand that using the media as your main source is not an accurate method:

If you were to read stories about airplanes in the paper, what would you read? You would read only about plane crashes. After a while, you would think that planes were unsafe and that many or most of them crash because that is all the news tells you about. They don't tell you about the 87,000 flights that land safely every day in the U.S. Thankfully, with airplanes we are intelligent enough to make the mental leap to realize that the stories about planes crashing are not even remotely close to representing the reality of the situation. It is very apperent to me that many people refuse to even admit that it is possible that it is not the breed. I just don't understand why it is so scary to do even a little research. Are you afraid that you might be wrong? That there is no simple solution? You do know that you can read opinions that differ from yours, and still maintain your opinion right? In fact, I will give you a tip, if you really want to promote breed bans effectively, you are going to need to arm yourself with more than news clippings and stories. You will need to learn both sides of the issue and you will need to use facts and proper interpertation of reliably collected data. I don't mind telling you this because it won't suprise me if you don't do the research, and if you do, I would imagine that at least a few of you will understand that banning the breed is not the answer. A few posts ago I provided links to very respected orginizations that deal with animals and dogs. These orginizations, and the links I provided, explain why breed bans are not the answer. I also asked in that post that people explain to me why their oppinions mean nothing to you. Amazingly, nobody has responded.

Some communities have banned breeds, but it is not a trend sweeping the nation. Other communities have passed laws that expressly forbid ever making a law that discriminates against breed. In places that the breed bans have been passed, I am willing to guess that time will show it doesn't solve the problem. You should probably start planning you next target now so that you are not caught off guard, with nothing to point your finger at. Better yet, do some research.

Thank you to those of you that have shown support for my ideas AND those of you who don't agree with me, but showed that you actually did some research and then formed your opinion.