Marauding pit bulls attack six - 10 year old boy, Critical

[SadieMae]

YOU don't get it. If they attack all the time, they are the best at killing, they always go for the kill, and they can't be stopped. How do they only kill 2.5 people?

2.5 deaths per year come from pit bulls. 14.5 come from other breeds. Do you honestly think that the other 14.5 were the result of the people being licked to death? NO, they were greusome also, but you wouldn't know that because you have never read about them. Do you think that only 14.5 other breeds bit, but every time it was fatal? No, other breeds bite all the time.

Obviously not every bite is fatal. There are 17 deaths per year, 4,500,000 bites reported every year. If dogs kill in proportion to how often they bite, then you could use the death statistics to extrapolate the number of bites per breed. However, you and many others say that pit bulls are more likely to kill you. If that is true, then they would actually have to attack less than other dogs to get 2.5 deaths per year.

Can you understand why reading 10 or even 100 stories about pit bulls does not give you the right to generalize about millions fo dogs? If you read about 100 murders, can you generalize about a race of people?

Of the 4.5 million dog bites reported, how many were minor bites, needing no medical treatment other than maybe a bandaid? How many of those bites didn't break the victims skin? How many of those bites involved stray/abandoned dogs? How many were from unleashed dogs? How many were a result of the dog protecting the owner or their property from a burglar? A neighbors' house was broken into and her Rottie chewed the guy up. She lives alone, it was in the middle of night. Yep, that was most likely put down as a dog bite. How many were not a result of an attack but accidental? ie, I had to take my son for 3 stitches. He and the dog bumped into each other and her canine tooth somehow got caught on his nostril. It was treated as a dog bite incident at the hospital, had police in the ER for a report, and since she was up to date on shots, there was no mandatory 30 quarantine for my dog. That got reported as a dog bite. Again, people can make the numbers show or hide whatever thay want. Raw data like that doesn't give me enough information. The child who lost her scalp didn't die, but she will listed as a "dog bite". There's a big difference in minor bite injury from a dog to all out mauling and killing. I don't judge PB only by what I read in the media. Those news stories along with personal experiences are enough for me to know I don't want them in my neighborhood. So the 2.5 death stat on pit bulls further doesn't convince me they are a safe breed.

 

[curlytone]

The right? Who the hell are you? I've got the right to say whatever the hell I want about pit bulls or anything else. I think you better back the hell up.

You are correct, you have the right to make up anything that you want. You have the right to misinterpret statistics. You have the right to ingore the truth. You have the right to not read anything but news stories. However, those rights do NOT MAKE YOU RIGHT.

And you tell me that pit bulls can snap.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

You are correct, you have the right to make up anything that you want. You have the right to misinterpret statistics. You have the right to ingore the truth. You have the right to not read anything but news stories. However, those rights do NOT MAKE YOU RIGHT.

And you tell me that pit bulls can snap.

You haven't seen me snap yet. Just because YOU post something doesn't make it right either. You accuse others of not reading the opposing side's posts, but you're the most guilty person in that regard. Ignorant dog owners refuse to see what's right in front of their faces and innocent children are paying the price for your stubborness. You've got the right to have a dangerous dog. Hopefully, you'll be the one who gets bit in the a$$ when your dog decides to attack and not the kid next door. I'll tell you right now, there's not enough insurance in existance to cover the person whose dog does this to one of my children.

 

[sandraladeda]

BTW, your lifetime odds of being killed by a pit bull are 1 in 1,489,996.

I would guess that your odds of being HARMED by a pit bull go up dramatically when one moves in next door. I have never had a pit bull living in my neighborhood, so other than seeing them at the dog park, I am not too worried about the odds of being killed (or harmed) by one.

Let me ask you this, curly - if you had to endure a dog attack, which would you rather, an attack by a labrador retriever or an attack by a pit bull?

If you had to send your child out to play in the neighborhood, which would rather, that your neighbor's sheltie is on the loose or that your neighbor's pit bull is on the loose?

I asked before and never got a response. What exactly are the qualities in a pit bull that makes it worthwhile to own as a pet? That you cannot find in any other breed?

Even if I was a pit bull fan, I would never keep one. It would not be worth it to me to have people afraid of my dog. It would prevent me from having good relationships with my neighbors, as neighbors would resent the fact that I have brought a potentially threathening (or perceived to be threatening) animal into the neighborhood. I would rather have goodwill in my neighborhood than a scary dog. I have kids, and the neighborhood kids come in and out of my house all day long. My golden loves the action, the children love my golden (he gets invited over to other children's homes for sleepovers, lol), and I never have to be afraid to allow children near him. If a child ventured into my yard, uninvited, he would be safe from being bitten.

I could never keep any other kind of dog.

imho

 

[curlytone]

Of the 4.5 million dog bites reported, how many were minor bites, needing no medical treatment other than maybe a bandaid? How many of those bites didn't break the victims skin? How many of those bites involved stray/abandoned dogs? How many were from unleashed dogs? How many were a result of the dog protecting the owner or their property from a burglar? A neighbors' house was broken into and her Rottie chewed the guy up. She lives alone, it was in the middle of night. Yep, that was most likely put down as a dog bite. How many were not a result of an attack but accidental? ie, I had to take my son for 3 stitches. He and the dog bumped into each other and her canine tooth somehow got caught on his nostril. It was treated as a dog bite incident at the hospital, had police in the ER for a report, and since she was up to date on shots, there was no mandatory 30 quarantine for my dog. That got reported as a dog bite. Again, people can make the numbers show or hide whatever thay want. Raw data like that doesn't give me enough information. The child who lost her scalp didn't die, but she will listed as a "dog bite". There's a big difference in minor bite injury from a dog to all out mauling and killing. I don't judge PB only by what I read in the media. Those news stories along with personal experiences are enough for me to know I don't want them in my neighborhood. So the 2.5 death stat on pit bulls further doesn't convince me they are a safe breed.

You are starting to get it, you can't just use raw numbers. You need more info. There are no statistics that show that pit bulls bite more often. There are no statistics to show that when they bite, it is worse than any other large dog (you base that on a few gruesome news stories). Since the death statistics are one of the few, if only statistics available that actually give any breed information, that is all that you can use to make any accurate inferences about the role of the breed. And even these stats are eaisly misinterpreted. I don't understand why it is so scary to consider that there are many more factors that go into any dog's temperment than just its breed. And addressing many of these factors would be more effective than banning a breed.

Let me ask you this: If you get rid of ALL the pit bulls and ALL the former PB owners get cats or jack russel terriers, and then we are faced with 14.5 dog related deaths per year (and more than 4 million reported bites), is that a number that you can feel safe about?

 

[SadieMae]

You are correct, you have the right to make up anything that you want. You have the right to misinterpret statistics. You have the right to ingore the truth. You have the right to not read anything but news stories. However, those rights do NOT MAKE YOU RIGHT.

And you tell me that pit bulls can snap.

Your interpretation of the "statistics" are entirely different from mine, and yours doesn't make it the TRUTH.

 

[sandraladeda]

There are no statistics to show that when they bite, it is worse than any other large dog (you base that on a few gruesome news stories).

Okay, facts and statistics aside, curly. Is it your personal belief that a pit bull bite is, by and large, of equal severity to that of a golden retriever, a collie, a St. Bernard, no more or less likely to require an ER visit, no more or less likely to require stitches/plastic surgery to repair?

If you had a large breed staring your toddler in the face, waiting to inflict a facial bite, would you choose the pit bull as the attacker?

 

[Jules]

I would guess that your odds of being HARMED by a pit bull go up dramatically when one moves in next door. I have never had a pit bull living in my neighborhood, so other than seeing them at the dog park, I am not too worried about the odds of being killed (or harmed) by one.

Let me ask you this, curly - if you had to endure a dog attack, which would you rather, an attack by a labrador retriever or an attack by a pit bull?

If you had to send your child out to play in the neighborhood, which would rather, that your neighbor's sheltie is on the loose or that your neighbor's pit bull is on the loose?

I asked before and never got a response. What exactly are the qualities in a pit bull that makes it worthwhile to own as a pet? That you cannot find in any other breed?

Even if I was a pit bull fan, I would never keep one. It would not be worth it to me to have people afraid of my dog. It would prevent me from having good relationships with my neighbors, as neighbors would resent the fact that I have brought a potentially threathening (or perceived to be threatening) animal into the neighborhood. I would rather have goodwill in my neighborhood than a scary dog. I have kids, and the neighborhood kids come in and out of my house all day long. My golden loves the action, the children love my golden (he gets invited over to other children's homes for sleepovers, lol), and I never have to be afraid to allow children near him. If a child ventured into my yard, uninvited, he would be safe from being bitten.

I could never keep any other kind of dog.

imho

Very good post! :clap: :clap: :clap:

The fact remains, regardless of what statistics who posts, they have the potential to be very dangerous. That is something you don't find in many breeds. The bottom line is is it worth it to own one? My response would be no. But to each his own - obviously others feel there is nothing to fear. I just hope and pray they don't end up furthering the statistics.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Okay, facts and statistics aside, curly. Is it your personal belief that a pit bull bite is, by and large, of equal severity to that of a golden retriever, a collie, a St. Bernard, no more or less likely to require an ER visit, no more or less likely to require stitches/plastic surgery to repair?

If you had a large breed staring your toddler in the face, waiting to inflict a facial bite, would you choose the pit bull as the attacker?

Maybe I'm incorrect, but I don't see a pit as a "large" breed. Compared to a dobby, rottweiler, GSD or even a lab, they're relatively small, which, from what I hear, is why they go directly for the throat of anything they're trying to kill.

I was watching Animal Planet Channel the other night and one of the "Animal Cops Michigan," episodes featured pit bulls. EVEN THE SPCA said it has to euthanize more pit bulls than any other breed of dog because it cannot pass an aggression test. In New York, the SPCA will NOT ADOPT out a pit bull. All of them are put to sleep when they're recovered by the SPCA. If there wasn't something to the "hype" as some people call it, why would an agency whose sole purpose is to protect animals, destroy this breed of dog?

 

[Jules]

Maybe I'm incorrect, but I don't see a pit as a "large" breed. Compared to a dobby, rottweiler, GSD or even a lab, they're relatively small, which, from what I hear, is why they go directly for the throat of anything they're trying to kill.

I was watching Animal Planet Channel the other night and one of the "Animal Cops Michigan," episodes featured pit bulls. EVEN THE SPCA said it has to euthanize more pit bulls than any other breed of dog because it cannot pass an aggression test. In New York, the SPCA will NOT ADOPT out a pit bull. All of them are put to sleep when they're recovered by the SPCA. If there wasn't something to the "hype" as some people call it, why would an agency whose sole purpose is to protect animals, destroy this breed of dog?

Jeana, it's basically the same here in Houston. We found a dog a few years ago and took it to SPCA as we couldn't keep it - it fought with our other dog. While the dog we found was not a pit, I was talking to the lady when someone brought in a pit. She explained to them that the animal would be put down and did they still want to drop it off. They said yes. She then told me that they are too risky to put into their adpotion program.

 

[sandraladeda]

Maybe I'm incorrect, but I don't see a pit as a "large" breed. Compared to a dobby, rottweiler, GSD or even a lab, they're relatively small, which, from what I hear, is why they go directly for the throat of anything they're trying to kill.

I was watching Animal Planet Channel the other night and one of the "Animal Cops Michigan," episodes featured pit bulls. EVEN THE SPCA said it has to euthanize more pit bulls than any other breed of dog because it cannot pass an aggression test. In New York, the SPCA will NOT ADOPT out a pit bull. All of them are put to sleep when they're recovered by the SPCA. If there wasn't something to the "hype" as some people call it, why would an agency whose sole purpose is to protect animals, destroy this breed of dog?

I agree Jeana, a PB is not that big, imo, certainly not as big as my golden. I just used the term large breed as curly has done so. It seems curly has a perception that there is greater potential danger in large breeds, hmm? Do the statistics back up that bias?

Don't you wonder why the media has it in for pit bulls? Do you think they are purposely not publishing accounts of all those vicious labrador retriever attacks? If so, why would they misinform us like that?

 

[SadieMae]

You are starting to get it, you can't just use raw numbers. You need more info. There are no statistics that show that pit bulls bite more often. There are no statistics to show that when they bite, it is worse than any other large dog (you base that on a few gruesome news stories). Since the death statistics are one of the few, if only statistics available that actually give any breed information, that is all that you can use to make any accurate inferences about the role of the breed. And even these stats are eaisly misinterpreted. I don't understand why it is so scary to consider that there are many more factors that go into any dog's temperment than just its breed. And addressing many of these factors would be more effective than banning a breed.

Let me ask you this: If you get rid of ALL the pit bulls and ALL the former PB owners get cats or jack russel terriers, and then we are faced with 14.5 dog related deaths per year (and more than 4 million reported bites), is that a number that you can feel safe about?

You are talking in circles!!! You want to prove your point with those same raw numbers to show how safe pit bulls are, and in the next post you say you can't go by those numbers. A dog's breed IS the major factor in it's temperament.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I agree Jeana, a PB is not that big, imo, certainly not as big as my golden. I just used the term large breed as curly has done so. It seems curly has a perception that there is greater potential danger in large breeds, hmm? Do the statistics back up that bias?

Don't you wonder why the media has it in for pit bulls? Do you think they are purposely not publishing accounts of all those vicious labrador retriever attacks? If so, why would they misinform us like that?

I think she's trying to do that because then she can try and lump them in with dogs that weigh 100+ pounds. Anything that weighs more is GOING to do more damage, especially to a child. Pit Bulls are MEDIUM sized dogs. I'd like to see the list of other MEDIUM sized dogs who can and DO the damage that pit bulls cause.

The media does have their own agenda, no one is going to deny that. The program I watched the other night that I was talking about didn't set out to make the pit bull look bad, and I guess someone else watching would come away from the show with a different take on it. My take is that if it wasn't ABSOLUTELY 100% NECESSARY, no agency that is on this planet solely to improve the life of animals is going to kill off a breed unnecessarily. Therefore, the only conclusion I could make is that the SPCA FELT IT WAS NECESSSARY TO DESTROY PIT BULLS. I guess anyone who has a problem with that can go directly to the SPCA and complain.

 

[curlytone]

I would guess that your odds of being HARMED by a pit bull go up dramatically when one moves in next door.

Of course your personal odds would go up (not dramatically), but this can be said of any dog. If a rottweiler moved in next door, your personal odds of being attacked by a rottweiler would go up. If a jack russel moved in, your personal odds would go up. The odds for any individual person would stay the same. The odds provided above are the odds as they stand today. Obviously the people who are attacked by any breed have to be in proximity to that type of dog. They can't attack from a distance.

Let me ask you this, curly - if you had to endure a dog attack, which would you rather, an attack by a labrador retriever or an attack by a pit bull?

As I have said before, maybe not so bluntly, I think that there is a higher proportion of reckless idiots that own pit bulls than any other breed. Therefore, if I had to pick between a lab and a pit bull attacking me, I would say lab because it is more likely that the OWNER of the PB trained it to be mean. I have acknowledged all along that the number of pit bull attacks and death is not acceptable. It certainly makes my life as an owner more difficult, because I have to fight peoples prejudice. So I would like to see, as much as anyone, that pit bull attacks (and dog attacks in general) go down. I just don't think that eliminating the breed is going to fix the problem that it is intended to. The problem is that the owners who are idiots are still out there, and I guaruntee that they will get a new dog and when it grows up, they will have trained it to be mean. Think of it this way. If you got rid of all the cocaine, would drug dealers go out of buissness? No. You haven't solved the problem and they would simply starts selling heroin, or meth, etc. (don't misunderstand and think that I am saying that any dog breed is bad like a drug).

If you had to send your child out to play in the neighborhood, which would rather, that your neighbor's sheltie is on the loose or that your neighbor's pit bull is on the loose?

Same response as above.

I asked before and never got a response. What exactly are the qualities in a pit bull that makes it worthwhile to own as a pet? That you cannot find in any other breed?

They have the same endering qualities that a golden has. They reveive one of the highest temperment ratings (obviously not in the media, but from respected and unbiased orginizaitions). Next time you are in a pet store, read a little bit about them (you can still decide not to like them after reading about them) plus they are low-maintenence (shed very little). They are the funniest dogs I have interacted with. Many people describe them as clowns. Also, thanks to the bad publicity they get, even though my dog is a cream puff, any would-be burglars will go to the next house and I am pretty sure that I am safe walking down the street with her.

Even if I was a pit bull fan, I would never keep one. It would not be worth it to me to have people afraid of my dog. It would prevent me from having good relationships with my neighbors, as neighbors would resent the fact that I have brought a potentially threathening (or perceived to be threatening) animal into the neighborhood. I would rather have goodwill in my neighborhood than a scary dog. I have kids, and the neighborhood kids come in and out of my house all day long. My golden loves the action, the children love my golden (he gets invited over to other children's homes for sleepovers, lol), and I never have to be afraid to allow children near him. If a child ventured into my yard, uninvited, he would be safe from being bitten.

I could never keep any other kind of dog.
imho

And I respect that. I am also willing to fight for things that are misunderstood. There are a lot of things in life and throughout history that would have been eaiser to ignore and walk away from. Thankfully, there are people who are willing to fight for the underdog (pun not totally intended). I am one of those people. I also respect those who choose not to undertake such a fight.

 

[SadieMae]

I would guess that your odds of being HARMED by a pit bull go up dramatically when one moves in next door. I have never had a pit bull living in my neighborhood, so other than seeing them at the dog park, I am not too worried about the odds of being killed (or harmed) by one.

Let me ask you this, curly - if you had to endure a dog attack, which would you rather, an attack by a labrador retriever or an attack by a pit bull?

If you had to send your child out to play in the neighborhood, which would rather, that your neighbor's sheltie is on the loose or that your neighbor's pit bull is on the loose?

I asked before and never got a response. What exactly are the qualities in a pit bull that makes it worthwhile to own as a pet? That you cannot find in any other breed?

Even if I was a pit bull fan, I would never keep one. It would not be worth it to me to have people afraid of my dog. It would prevent me from having good relationships with my neighbors, as neighbors would resent the fact that I have brought a potentially threathening (or perceived to be threatening) animal into the neighborhood. I would rather have goodwill in my neighborhood than a scary dog. I have kids, and the neighborhood kids come in and out of my house all day long. My golden loves the action, the children love my golden (he gets invited over to other children's homes for sleepovers, lol), and I never have to be afraid to allow children near him. If a child ventured into my yard, uninvited, he would be safe from being bitten.

I could never keep any other kind of dog.

imho

Exellent questions!! I wouldn't own a Pit for the reasons you mentioned either. I just don't want to take the RISK. It is a risky dog to own, I would never take the chance of owning a PB. :clap: :clap:

 

[curlytone]

You are talking in circles!!! You want to prove your point with those same raw numbers to show how safe pit bulls are, and in the next post you say you can't go by those numbers. A dog's breed IS the major factor in it's temperament.

This is an analogy, so bear with me.
If I gave you the following statistics (note these are not real numbers):

Number of deaths by car manufacturer:
Ford 5,000 61%
Toyota 2,000 25%
Nissan 1,000 12%
Kia 147 2%
Ferrari 3 <1%


Is it correct to say that Ford is the most dangerous car? No. It is correct to say that if you die in a car, you are statistically more likely to die in a Ford. Why might that be? Maybe it is simply because there are more Fords. Maybe it is because people who buy Fords are more reckless (note I said maybe). Maybe Fords are more likely to be stolen and therefore involved in more high speed chase type crashes. Maybe there is a group of people who buy them and intend to crash them (for a derby or something). The point is, simply saying that getting rid of Fords will reduce the number of car deaths by 61% is completely false and unsupported by statistics.

 

[SadieMae]

Snipped...
As I have said before, maybe not so bluntly, I think that there is a higher proportion of reckless idiots that own pit bulls than any other breed. Therefore, if I had to pick between a lab and a pit bull attacking me, I would say lab because it is more likely that the OWNER of the PB trained it to be mean. I have acknowledged all along that the number of pit bull attacks and death is not acceptable.

They have the same endering qualities that a golden has. They reveive one of the highest temperment ratings (obviously not in the media, but from am one of those people. I also respect those who choose not to undertake such a fight.

Excuse me!!! But the majority of news reports on these dogs that killed, they are described as a "family pet" not trained assasins. Since it's your opinion more idiots own the dogs, why would you oppose a ban then? Right or wrong it's to protect the public.

 

[curlytone]

Exellent questions!! I wouldn't own a Pit for the reasons you mentioned either. I just don't want to take the RISK. It is a risky dog to own, I would never take the chance of owning a PB. :clap: :clap:

They are good and I answered them just above your post.

 

[Details]

BTW: Curly - re read aussiegran's post - there were stats about how many of those horrible disfiguring dog bites were caused by pit bulls and rotweiliers, etc. It was a substantial majority of them. The stat was there - you didn't read it.

I think that is a bit disingenous of you anyway - a dog that is responsible for most of the fatalities will also be responsible for most of the serious attacks that fall short of fatality - obviously. Pit bulls don't always succeed in killing - they try, doesn't mean they succeed.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

BTW: Curly - re read aussiegran's post - there were stats about how many of those horrible disfiguring dog bites were caused by pit bulls and rotweiliers, etc. It was a substantial majority of them. The stat was there - you didn't read it.

:banghead: