Marine Cpl. Cesar Laurean caught!!

[panthera]

I think the PP was talking about how the Mexican govt. will not allow extradition of their citizens unless no death penalty is applied, and how that is hypocritical.

And it's not just Mexico but any country which doesn't have the DP won't extradite.

 

[Tom'sGirl]

And it's not just Mexico but any country which doesn't have the DP won't extradite.

Exactly right panthera!

 

[panthera]

Exactly right panthera!

I remembered that because some criminal fled to France a few years ago (sorry I can't remember his name) and a big deal was made of them not returning him to the U.S.

 

[Tom'sGirl]

I remembered that because some criminal fled to France a few years ago (sorry I can't remember his name) and a big deal was made of them not returning him to the U.S.

That's why many in the USA who don't have means to flee abroad will instead flee to Mexico or Canada.

 

[panthera]

That's why many in the USA who don't have means to flee abroad will instead flee to Mexico or Canada.

Oh yes, very true. And of course, Cesar Laurean was born in Mexico so it really was natural for him to go there.

 

[BeavisMom62]

Re the Cesar Laurean case, America should NEVER accede to lessening the penalty for premeditated murder. Those who do not respect innocent human life should be accorded the due reward of their foul deed, execution by the State in the country where the murder was committed. Why play "holier than thou" with a justice system (such as Mexico's) which is known for its many injustices? And Mexico kills countless Americans via its daily drug trade across borders. Mexican & U.S. authorities should resolve this heinous discrepancy with all due haste. Both sides must agree to return alleged killers for the serving of justice, ie, re America, a fair trial by a jury of peers, one appeal and if turned down, execution hesto presto. I love it, I love it whereby capital punishment is still in existence throughout both Mexico & America, but it's the mad-dog killers who are executing innocent people without much hesitation at all. I earnestly propose that we reverse the procedure with all due haste in the interests, quite correctly, of social progress.

Arturo Durano.

Great post, arturo, ITA :clap::clap::clap:

 

[BeavisMom62]

I remembered that because some criminal fled to France a few years ago (sorry I can't remember his name) and a big deal was made of them not returning him to the U.S.

I can't remember the name either, but the minute I hear it I'm like "oh, yeah, that's him". But he was the guy with the dead girlfriend in the suitcase in his closet, right? I think he was a professor or something? He finally did get extradited back to the US IIRC but of course, no DP.

 

[panthera]

I can't remember the name either, but the minute I hear it I'm like "oh, yeah, that's him". But he was the guy with the dead girlfriend in the suitcase in his closet, right? I think he was a professor or something? He finally did get extradited back to the US IIRC but of course, no DP.

Yes that sounds like him. I still can't think of his name though because I mainly remember the hard time we had getting him extradited.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes that sounds like him. I still can't think of his name though because I mainly remember the hard time we had getting him extradited.

Was it something like Ira Inehorn?

Or something like that.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Re the Cesar Laurean case, America should NEVER accede to lessening the penalty for premeditated murder. Those who do not respect innocent human life should be accorded the due reward of their foul deed, execution by the State in the country where the murder was committed. Why play "holier than thou" with a justice system (such as Mexico's) which is known for its many injustices? And Mexico kills countless Americans via its daily drug trade across borders. Mexican & U.S. authorities should resolve this heinous discrepancy with all due haste. Both sides must agree to return alleged killers for the serving of justice, ie, re America, a fair trial by a jury of peers, one appeal and if turned down, execution hesto presto. I love it, I love it whereby capital punishment is still in existence throughout both Mexico & America, but it's the mad-dog killers who are executing innocent people without much hesitation at all. I earnestly propose that we reverse the procedure with all due haste in the interests, quite correctly, of social progress.

Arturo Durano.

Social progress? It seems more and more countries do not believe in the death penalty.

I agree with some of your points but the honest truth is we are the ones who wants the illegal drugs so therefore there will always be drugs sold here when the demand is great and being rampantly consumed.

I don't agree that each country has to agree. Each country has their own justice system. We are one of the ones that carries out the death penalty (which I am in favor of in certain cases) and that is fine as long as we aren't having to extradite them back from one of the countries who in their own system of rules does not allow the death penalty.

Now I guess Hudson could have been bullheaded and refused to recognize the treaty that we have with Mexico but that would not advance his case nor ever give justice for Maria and Gabriel's death because if that was to have been his take on it, Mexico simply would have refused extradition and what good would that do anyone, especially the Lauterbach family?

We must realize that we do not rule the world or any other country as they do not rule over us. They have him...we want him. As long as we are people of our word and adhere to treaty agreements then when we want another suspect extradited out of that same country they will trust our word.

IF Cesar Laurean is guilty, doing life without parole is a prolonged death sentence imo and I think the Lauterbach's will believe that justice has been served if he or any other party is convicted and sentenced harshly for this crime.

imoo

 

[Arturo Durano]

So some innocent lives aren't worth the execution of their murderers? Hmm. The murder of a wife, a daughter, a grocery clerk, whomever, may not be worth the expenditure for lethal chemicals necessary to exact justice. How so? Isn't all innocent life precious? If not all, why any?

And America should start exerting its voice re, say, Mexicans who murder innocent folk in the USA. Several Mexicans at this very moment are in Death Rows in America for murders in the USA. Mexico has called for new trials & even contacted the E.U. re the bully USA. Well, at least your stated philosophy will thankfully permit the execution of these convicted Mexican killers in the country of their murders.

And why is "life without parole" your cat's meow in the matter? Convicted-but-not-executed murderers REPEAT their dastardly crimes - or haven't you heard? The fact is that far more innocent citizens have been executed by convicted-but-not-executed murderers than were ever executed wrongly by the State. In point of fact, what "innocent" killer was ever "executed wrongly" by your State of Beautiful North Carolina (especially your western N.C.)? Any names? And why would you allow convicted murderers to continue living & receiving free board, recreation & education plus conjugal visits while their poor slaughtered victims lie a-rottin' in their sepulchres? Please boogie down, N.C.!

Finally why in the universe would you have beleaguered American taxpayers foot the continuing bill for convicted killers - many of them double & triple killers - for long decades until they expire of Alzheimers? Bottom Line: those who don't respect innocent human life surely wholeheartedly deserve to forfeit their own with all due haste and that in spite of abolitionist "prayer vigils" and hymn sings outside prison walls. BTW, has ANYONE ever heard of either a "prayer vigils" or said hymn sings on behalf of the convicted killer's poor VICTIMS? Won't somebody rise and tell? At best disingenuous, at worst dishonest and quite wrongheaded. All that seems to be missing are the Pop Tarts. Verrry interesting, no?

May your great State continue to administer the vital coup de grace re convicted killers in the interests once again of social progress. It's time and past time for every American State to get a grip on serious criminal matters.

:woohoo:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

So some innocent lives aren't worth the execution of their murderers? Hmm. The murder of a wife, a daughter, a grocery clerk, whomever, may not be worth the expenditure for lethal chemicals necessary to exact justice. How so? Isn't all innocent life precious? If not all, why any?

And America should start exerting its voice re, say, Mexicans who murder innocent folk in the USA. Several Mexicans at this very moment are in Death Rows in America for murders in the USA. Mexico has called for new trials & even contacted the E.U. re the bully USA. Well, at least your stated philosophy will thankfully permit the execution of these convicted Mexican killers in the country of their murders.

And why is "life without parole" your cat's meow in the matter? Convicted-but-not-executed murderers REPEAT their dastardly crimes - or haven't you heard? The fact is that far more innocent citizens have been executed by convicted-but-not-executed murderers than were ever executed wrongly by the State. In point of fact, what "innocent" killer was ever "executed wrongly" by your State of Beautiful North Carolina (especially your western N.C.)? Any names? And why would you allow convicted murderers to continue living & receiving free board, recreation & education plus conjugal visits while their poor slaughtered victims lie a-rottin' in their sepulchres? Please boogie down, N.C.!

Finally why in the universe would you have beleaguered American taxpayers foot the continuing bill for convicted killers - many of them double & triple killers - for long decades until they expire of Alzheimers? Bottom Line: those who don't respect innocent human life surely wholeheartedly deserve to forfeit their own with all due haste and that in spite of abolitionist "prayer vigils" and hymn sings outside prison walls. BTW, has ANYONE ever heard of either a "prayer vigils" or said hymn sings on behalf of the convicted killer's poor VICTIMS? Won't somebody rise and tell? At best disingenuous, at worst dishonest and quite wrongheaded. All that seems to be missing are the Pop Tarts. Verrry interesting, no?

May your great State continue to administer the vital coup de grace re convicted killers in the interests once again of social progress. It's time and past time for every American State to get a grip on serious criminal matters.

:woohoo:

So you think every defendant in this country should get the death penalty? That is a very extreme viewpoint imo. Even though this country is in favor of the death penalty I do not think that even the majority, expects it to be given to everyone. That is why each case must have the legal prongs to make it a death qualified case.

You sound like you are not from this country? May I ask what country you are from? Somalia, Iran? Just wondering?

Those who are given life without parole do not have the opportunity to re-offend as they will die in prison not out.

And btw/this case has not even gone to trial.

And of course there are Mexicans on death row in this country. They were caught in this country so our laws apply. If they were brought back from their homeland then the ones I have seen are doing LWOP and the death penalty was not attached. There is every other race there too and last time I read more whites are on death row than any other ethnicity.

What about the defendants who were found guilty and put on death row and waiting execution but have since been exonerated and were innocent?

I personally think there is enough killing going on and that we should do as we do now and proceed with extreme caution when the DAs applies the death penalty. Death penalty across the board for everyone is not going to happen in this country imo. That is why we have jurors who weigh the mitigating and aggravating factors in each case.

Sounds like your beef is directed more against the Mexicans imo.

Life without parole is not "our meow" but we want Laurean brought back to stand trial and that is the deal we must honor if he is found guilty.

imoo

 

[panthera]

Was it something like Ira Inehorn?

Or something like that.

I think that's it!! Thanks so much! I hate having a thought of something I want to post and then having the person's name escape me.

 

[panthera]

So some innocent lives aren't worth the execution of their murderers? Hmm. The murder of a wife, a daughter, a grocery clerk, whomever, may not be worth the expenditure for lethal chemicals necessary to exact justice. How so? Isn't all innocent life precious? If not all, why any?



And why is "life without parole" your cat's meow in the matter? Convicted-but-not-executed murderers REPEAT their dastardly crimes - or haven't you heard? The fact is that far more innocent citizens have been executed by convicted-but-not-executed murderers than were ever executed wrongly by the State. In point of fact, what "innocent" killer was ever "executed wrongly" by your State of Beautiful North Carolina (especially your western N.C.)? Any names? And why would you allow convicted murderers to continue living & receiving free board, recreation & education plus conjugal visits while their poor slaughtered victims lie a-rottin' in their sepulchres? Please boogie down, N.C.!



May your great State continue to administer the vital coup de grace re convicted killers in the interests once again of social progress. It's time and past time for every American State to get a grip on serious criminal matters.

Maybe I'm really missing something here but why is my State being singled out? It isn't OUR fault that the DP had to be taken off the table in order to extradite Cesar Laurean or any criminal from Mexico or any other foreign country which doesn't recognize the DP. It happens with every state because of extradition treaties set up by the US government.

 

[Arturo Durano]

I've already stated that in our most emphatic position that any person who cannot rspect innocent human life - including a husband, wife, sibling, whomever - should logically be made to forfeit their own. This particular observer takes a firm stand on behalf of murdered wives, girlfriends, children, whomever and does not regard them as so much "unfortunate folk" who are readily forgotten by both the murderer & his abolitionist sidekicks. I have already asked you to produce the name & situation re any executed "innocent" person in your Beautiful State. You didn't respond. Any pertinent reason?

You conveniently overlook the fact - or maybe you're simply unaware of it - that LWOP killers do indeed REPEAT their crimes over and over again. They murder prison guards, other inmates and if they escape murder again. I have just competed a 25-year Research Study of convicted-but-never-executed killers and their continuing murder sprees involving innocent citizens outside prison walls as well as guards & visitors within. You also very conveniently failed to respond to even one of my concerns about "prayer vigils" or candlelight ceremonies outside prisons on behalf of the poor slaughtered victims long in their tombs. Why not? Perhaps as an abolitionist you're not all that concerned about public support for the victims of murderers? Can you put on your thinking cap & try to come up with one victim anywhere in America who had a "prayer vigil" held on their behalf?

Kind sir, the "killing that's going" in America today, that killing that seems to bother you somewhat, is not that of the few executed murderers meeting their Maker due to their failure to respect innocent human life, but it's much rather that of the increasing number of innocent American women, children (and men) being shot, garrotted, stabbed or even drowned by mad-dog killers who depend on abolitionists and ACLU-types to defend their nefarious actions.

Crime will not decrease in America today until it becomes much more dangerous to be a murderer than to be a victim. You can carve the words in granite too.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I've already stated that in our most emphatic position that any person who cannot respect innocent human life - including a husband, wife, sibling, whomever - should logically be made to forfeit their own. This particular observer takes a firm stand on behalf of murdered wives, girlfriends, children, whomever and does not regard them as so much "unfortunate folk" who are readily forgotten by both the murderer & his abolitionist sidekicks. I have already asked you to produce the name & situation re any executed "innocent" person in your Beautiful State. You didn't respond. Any pertinent reason?

You conveniently overlook the fact - or maybe you're simply unaware of it - that LWOP killers do indeed REPEAT their crimes over and over again. They murder prison guards, other inmates and if they escape murder again. I have just competed a 25-year Research Study of convicted-but-never-executed killers and their continuing murder sprees involving innocent citizens outside prison walls as well as guards & visitors within. You also very conveniently failed to respond to even one of my concerns about "prayer vigils" or candlelight ceremonies outside prisons on behalf of the poor slaughtered victims long in their tombs. Why not? Perhaps as an abolitionist you're not all that concerned about public support for the victims of murderers? Can you put on your thinking cap & try to come up with one victim anywhere in America who had a "prayer vigil" held on their behalf?

Kind sir, the "killing that's going" in America today, that killing that seems to bother you somewhat, is not that of the few executed murderers meeting their Maker due to their failure to respect innocent human life, but it's much rather that of the increasing number of innocent American women, children (and men) being shot, garroted, stabbed or even drowned by mad-dog killers who depend on abolitionists and ACLU-types to defend their nefarious actions.

Crime will not decrease in America today until it becomes much more dangerous to be a murderer than to be a victim. You can carve the words in granite too.

I see you do your spill then selectively list who you think is more worthy.
Your Quote "This particular observer takes a firm stand on behalf of murdered wives, girlfriends, children, whomever and does not regard them as so much "unfortunate folk" who are readily forgotten by both the murderer...."

You then go on with your tirade and throw in (and men) in parenthesis. I happen to believe that both genders have equal worth. Are "the men" the "whomever" just thrown in as an after thought?

Why you believe that the death penalty is a deterrent and a cure all, I have no clue. Its purpose was never intended as such but as a form of the most ultimate punishment that can be given to a defendant based on their own individual case independently. I highly doubt the next murderer that comes along will get their research books out before they kill and think "oh my I can't do this murderous thing because I may or may not be executed 20 years from now" There always have been murderers and there always will be.

What you say makes no sense. Other countries across the world have no death penalty at all yet have much less crime than is here in the USA. So your theory to kill them all does not hold up imo.

And I am not even disagreeing with you about the death penalty but everything comes in degrees and, yes, that even includes homicides and that is why juries can chose what degree they thought the defendant committed.

Why you come here to berate and chastise North Carolina and I have no clue. I know sometime the USA doesn't think they have to parlay with anyone in another country but the truth is they do and must respect the laws/treaties of another country even if they do not agree with them. Just like we expect all other sovereign nations to respect ours.

NC could have done like another case I recently read about. Oh that DA reminded me of you, sort of headstrong and he refused to take the death penalty off the table for a suspect that had fled to Canada. Well of course Canada is the same way as Mexico and everyone knows it and wouldn't extradite him back. So two years were wasted and for what? Needless delay bringing him back. I wonder how the victim's family felt as those years went by knowing he was in Canada all that time and would have been there for life if the local DA had not finally adhered to their treaty?

DA Hudson knows the law........he knows the treaty.......he respects the law and treaties of other countries he may have to deal with. He didn't wait around or be pig headed. He wanted him back as quickly as possible.

Laurean is not the only suspect that the USA is wanting extradited. He is just one little fish in a big pond and they aren't going to go against the very agreement they have made because if they do they will not get the next one back and he or she could be a mass serial killer for all we know that has killed many people.

I commend Hudson for doing the right thing.....for not thwarting it by slowing down the process to a stop. Extradition hearings are being held in Mexico and I have no doubt Laurean will be back on American soil in a few months, awaiting trial. Even Mary Lauterbach has not stated once she wants Laurean to get death. She said she wants to see him convicted and locked up.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think that's it!! Thanks so much! I hate having a thought of something I want to post and then having the person's name escape me.

It took years and years to get him extradited back.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Panthera,

It also took 7 years to extradite James Sullivan back from Thailand.

He was suspected of hiring a hit man to murder his wife, Lita and he was not brought to justice until 19 years after the crime.

Hudson is not going to let that happen here in this case.

imoo

 

[panthera]

Panthera,

It also took 7 years to extradite James Sullivan back from Thailand.

He was suspected of hiring a hit man to murder his wife, Lita and he was not brought to justice until 19 years after the crime.

Hudson is not going to let that happen here in this case.

imoo

Yes thanks for the reminder about that case! I agree, DA Hudson is not going to allow justice to be delayed that long, and he's doing everything the right way to get Cesar back here to stand trial. It's the USMC that Cesar fears the most anyway, I believe. So those negotiations have to be held too so the state can try him.

 

[Arturo Durano]

Let one repeat it because abolitionists are not acutely listening: capital punishment is the most effective detrerrent in the entire universe with respect to the convicted murderer ever repeating his crimes - and THAT'S the most important deterrent of all! NOT what it might mean in Europe or at the Vatican....NOT whether other would-be killers are impressed....NOT whether LWOP will "tend to satisfy" a victim's loved one that "justice has been done".....no, no, a million times NO!.... (A) ONLY WHETHER THE SPECIFIC EXECUTED MURDERER EVER GETS OPPORTUNITY TO REPEAT HIS CRIME (AS A GROWING NUMBER DO!); AND (B) WHETHER THE ESSENTIAL WORTH OF INNOCENT HUMAN LIFE HAS BEEN COMPENSATED FOR. Why do abolitionists only rate innocent human life to simply be on a par with killers' continuing life at taxpayers' expense replete with continuing board & accommodation, medical supervision, conjugal visits for killers and opportunity to progress in various social institutions? I've seen this abolitionist film before: it's called Bambi meets Godzilla. Pious claptrap unlimited.

You failed again to deal with points raised. Why? My Research Study shows that multitudes more innocent lives have been taken by convicted-but-not-executed murderers REPEATING the crime of murder than were ever taken by the State by mistake. It's an ugly fact for abolitionists to come to grips with, granted, but there it sits high on the judicial flagpole. Didn't Tom Huxley once say something about the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact? Exactly so, and this particular ugly fact will not curl up in a corner & stay curled. I'm prepared to list an almost unending list from my Research Study but wonder whether you'd even be interested. Anyways, let me commence with names such as Daved Harry Fisher, Dwight Lucas, Arthur Shawcross, Dalton Prejean, Meva Singh Gill, Thomas Walker on into the abolitionist night. Care enuf to want more? Probably not. And you probably don't care all that much about the next ugly fact that from 1976 till 2000 11.4% of all homicides where committed by inmates with a previous murder charge....in other words 58,409 innocent people were executed at the hands of known murderers! May I lovingly suggest to you that if you care to abolish the vital death penalty for convicted killers that the essential first step be taken by our friends the murderers themselves. If they continue to desecrate innocent human life - whether your loved ones or mine - that they be prepared to forfeit their own lives in commonsense exchange. The Bottom Line in our earnest discussion is that capital punishment SAVES INNOCENT lives, plumb & plain.

The greatest crime in the desert is finding water and keeping silent. I suggest to my North Carolina friend that the greatest crime in the judicial structure is knowing according to the stated record that the death penalty does indeed saved innocent lives and preferring to remain uninterrupted by conscience, rectitude or logic. But then again, I guess pobody is nerfect, right?:boohoo: