Marines Caught Urinating on Dead Bodies

[MarthaM]

The problem, in my view, is that a handful of soldiers are being used to smear our entire military as though this is the greatest outrage ever. Why don't we hear of these other atrocities?

Bad publicity because of the actions of one or a few always leads to closer scrutiny, attention, and often negative opinions about the organization they belong to--at least at first, until more of the facts come out and the public has a chance to look at the whole picture and see how the organization handles the situation. The military is not immune to that.

And those 'other atrocities' have no bearing on this specific situation. I highly doubt that the military itself would be impressed with the 'Well, other people do bad things, too...' thing.

 

[ynotdivein]

OK. I am going to be editing some posts shortly--not to remove or censor anyone's views, but to keep the conversation here focused on the topic at hand, and not on poster-to-poster arguments or attacks.

It will help immensely if everyone does their best to keep the word "you" out of their posts.

We all have different opinions about how to view and digest this incident, about how the media is presenting it here and abroad, about what it "means" on the national and international stage, what it means for US citizens and for Afghanis and for everyone else in the world who is following it... And we need to be able to discuss these different views and opinions respectfully, with ears and hearts open to diametrically opposed viewpoints from our own. Without badgering or antagonizing our fellow posters. Without personalizing our posts or taking others' opinions and beliefs as a personal affront.

Please continue to respectfully discuss and debate ideas. Please refrain from personal attacks and accusations.

 

[Gardenlady]

<modsnip> who on earth is using this to smear the military? If this incident smears anything, it is the act of war itself, which leaves soldiers wounded physically as well as mentally, as we see from this incident.

This is what war does. It teaches people to kill, and then have no respect for the human life that was once held inside that now-dead body, so it's okay to piss on it, and show the world. I think it is telling that some people would rather this video be covered up - i think it should be requred viewing. I think it is something profoundly revelatory about war, and it is something that the general American public doesn't get to see very often - just what our young people can become when we send them off to war. Its a lot different than the clinical strikes of drones we are shown, or the video game-ish shots of missiles and bombs hitting their targets, that are shown on the nightly news.

If we don't like what this shows, then what we really ought to be thinking about is not how bad the other guys are compared to us, but about whether we really want to go to war in the first place.

 

[animlzrule]

The problem, in my view, is that a handful of soldiers are being used to smear our entire military as though this is the greatest outrage ever. Why don't we hear of these other atrocities?

The vulgar language was a side note and addressed as such.

Wow. Those who feel that this incident unfairly shines a critical light on these "soldiers" need broaden their reading repertoire. Unfortunately, myriad examples of atrocities from both sides are available on-line, in print journalism and television commentary. It might be informative for you to read publications or seek out journalism not based in the US for a more balanced view. It really is not in anyone's best interests to engage in a tit for tat about who did what to whom. If our military wants to be perceived and recognized as an honorable and dignified entity worthy of the world's admiration and trust, their conduct at home and abroad needs to be scrutinized with intense focus, and deviations from the code of conduct need to be dealt with swiftly and with great consequence. After all, "be all that you can be" does not include the ability to concentrate your urine stream to hit a precise target. Shouldn't our military's standards reach a bit higher? I would hope that parents of children in the military are absolutely outraged by this incident. Their sons and daughters are being sacrificed in the midst of "soldiers" who think this is acceptable conduct and entertainment?

 

[Ada]

I agree it's a dumb childish action but it seems a little weird to me that we are OK with killing people in war but peeing on them after they're dead is some act of horror.

Exactly. I was trying to think of a way to say just that but you did it for me. It's ok to kill them, just don't pee on them.

 

[legalmania]

Just as the prisoners at Abu Ghraib were mistreated this has been something that has went on in wars for a long time. Our soldiers get abused also. They have done a lot worse to our dead soldiers. Sometimes they are under orders. War is a nasty thing, we don't know what these prisoners did, that got them killed. Did they try to blow up these soldiers? Sometimes our soldiers are under great mental stress and are just not thinking right. I'm not condoning this act, but I think I can understand it. I just hope when they get back to the states they aren't thrown under the bus and receive some much needed mental help.

 

[MarthaM]

Exactly. I was trying to think of a way to say just that but you did it for me. It's ok to kill them, just don't pee on them.

I'm not sure I understand the line of thinking here. I despise all war. I don't think that killing these people who were pee'd on was okay.

But I can look on the Marines' behavior and not like that, either.


'We' aren't all okay with killing people in war.

And I wouldn't classify the peeing as being on the same level as the concept of war. I think it was disgusting and juvenile and an embarrassment, but wouldn't use the word 'horror'.

 

[Gardenlady]

Exactly... I mean, why is the assumption that everyone is "for" the war?

I don't think I could possibly be any more anti-war (any war, not just this one) than I already am. But I also think this pissing incident was an added bad act to the already terrible act of killing. Why isn't it possible to deplore both?

 

[MarthaM]

Just as the prisoners at Abu Ghraib were mistreated this has been something that has went on in wars for a long time. Our soldiers get abused also. They have done a lot worse to our dead soldiers. Sometimes they are under orders. War is a nasty thing, we don't know what these prisoners did, that got them killed. Did they try to blow up these soldiers? Sometimes our soldiers are under great mental stress and are just not thinking right. I'm not condoning this act, but I think I can understand it. I just hope when they get back to the states they aren't thrown under the bus and receive some much needed mental help.

My own personal impression is that this wasn't some sort of reaction to great mental stress, or the result of anything the deceased did. I think these guys just plain thought that what they were doing was hilarious. It was all a big joke to them, IMO.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Just as the prisoners at Abu Ghraib were mistreated this has been something that has went on in wars for a long time. Our soldiers get abused also. They have done a lot worse to our dead soldiers. Sometimes they are under orders. War is a nasty thing, we don't know what these prisoners did, that got them killed. Did they try to blow up these soldiers? Sometimes our soldiers are under great mental stress and are just not thinking right. I'm not condoning this act, but I think I can understand it. I just hope when they get back to the states they aren't thrown under the bus and receive some much needed mental help.

When they get back to the states they are given a handful of prescriptions and sent on their way.

Then they sit around all day and watch videos they made like this.

At least that was the case with my son in-law before he died in his sleep from his prescriptions.

 

[norest4thewicked]

It's no question that these marines did something irresponsible, disgusting, disrespectful and even horrendous. They will almost certainly get a dishonorable discharge (which will hurt them the rest of their lives) and also most likely will serve time in a Federal prison. I think that this is all completely reasonable for what they did.

However, before people begin to lecture on war and the people who fight the wars, I'd like to ask when those people last fought a war themselves. What ones grandfather, father, brother, son, daughter did or what they think they will do is a moot point. No one knows what one would do in a situation until they are in it. No one knows what happened before that or after it.

Young people can do ridiculous things without a thought, and only later realize what a mistake it was - God knows I have. You can be assured that these men will be punished.

 

[Ada]

I'm not sure I understand the line of thinking here. I despise all war. I don't think that killing these people who were pee'd on was okay.

But I can look on the Marines' behavior and not like that, either.


'We' aren't all okay with killing people in war.

And I wouldn't classify the peeing as being on the same level as the concept of war. I think it was disgusting and juvenile and an embarrassment, but wouldn't use the word 'horror'.

My comment was more directed at the 'powers that be' that might be contemplating disciplinary action against these soldiers, rather than the general public that may be against the killing part too. The same powers that trained them to kill and ordered them to kill but now may be discussing their punishment for peeing.

 

[davehead21]

It's no question that these marines did something irresponsible, disgusting, disrespectful and even horrendous. They will almost certainly get a dishonorable discharge (which will hurt them the rest of their lives) and also most likely will serve time in a Federal prison. I think that this is all completely reasonable for what they did.

However, before people begin to lecture on war and the people who fight the wars, I'd like to ask when those people last fought a war themselves. What ones grandfather, father, brother, son, daughter did or what they think they will do is a moot point. No one knows what one would do in a situation until they are in it. No one knows what happened before that or after it.

Young people can do ridiculous things without a thought, and only later realize what a mistake it was - God knows I have. You can be assured that these men will be punished.

So only people who have fought in a war are allowed to have an opinion on this incident? Does that mean only lawyers can have an opinion about the Casey Anthony debacle? Only sick people can have an opinion on healthcare reform? Only former Presidents can have an opinion about President Obama? Only former NFL quarterbacks should be talking about whether or not Tim Tebow is overrated?

 

[AlwaysShocked]

My late husband was a USMC combat veteran of Viet Nam. He was very, very young and was there at the worst of times (1967-1968, Tet Offensive) in an area of the worst of the fighting (Con Tien to Khe Sanh in order to liberate the base). He suffered from PTSD forever after and he died at age 60 of an Agent Orange related cancer.

Semper Fi. These young Marines will surely be punished for their actions. But they were there serving US and for that I feel grateful. Could the CO have known about these types of acts? Yep. Could he prevent it? Maybe, maybe not. The fact that a wide-scale investigation has been launched says pretty loudly that such behavior was not appreciated by those at the upper levels. That fact will make itself known from the top down.

And yes, war IS hell. Often a very long-lasting hell. In a way I feel sorry for the three men. So stupid, so stupid. They will likely pay for that stupidity in one way or another for a very long time.

 

[Fairy1]

I don't care for the killing, but it is a "war" and that is what these soldiers are trained to do. I also will never mourn the death of any Taliban member.

So, these fellows did their jobs. They killed the bad guys. I get that. But the peeing was not only disgusting and childish, but entirely pointless. Unless they wanted the world to see it, which would explain the recording of it. Even then, I fail to see what purpose was served.

Yes, I hold the US military to a higher standard. No, I don't blame the entire US military for the juvenile acts of four soldiers. I am grateful to those in our military who serve with honor and integrity.

You ask why the deplorable acts of others don't get this kind of media coverage; it's because we expect it from others. NOT from American soldiers.

 

[Nova]

So only people who have fought in a war are allowed to have an opinion on this incident? Does that mean only lawyers can have an opinion about the Casey Anthony debacle? Only sick people can have an opinion on healthcare reform? Only former Presidents can have an opinion about President Obama? Only former NFL quarterbacks should be talking about whether or not Tim Tebow is overrated?

No. And I think there has been nearly unanimous condemnation here of the urination incident.

But on a human level, I feel I have to make some allowance for never having been in the shoes of these Marines. Yes, I condemn what they did, largely because it damages our entire effort in the region. At the same time, I allow that I may not fully understand their thinking in that context.

I'm sure the Corps will be under pressure to make examples of these Marines. Frankly, I hope a way can be found so that the punishment is relatively light. Like gitana1 and others here, I recognize that to some degree these young men (I think they were all men) are a product of what we asked them to do; I don't think they should have to bear the full burden of punishment for it.

 

[Kat]

Someone who wants a discharge.

I think.

Yikes. They're going to get more than a discharge for this one

This is going to be ugly. If it had been leaked within the confines of the military and was able to be handled at that level, then they may have been able to get an honorable discharge~ possibly.

But this is national news. The Commander in Chief has even ordered an investigation--which means--he's expecting to be briefed on the results. Double yikes.

It will go up the chain of command. It's going to get real ugly. Even if we don't hear about it because there is a possibility that we might not hear all the details of who was reprimanded and/or seperated from the miltary and/or even possibly given jail time for this (I'm not up on regs, the only regs I know are the one's that directly effect the family members and there are very few that do and fwiw regs aren't open for interpretation by anyone other than the legal department of the military branches).

My Husband saw this on the news last night and said "jebus" rolled his eyes and said where in the hello was and exactly what was this command doing. (by command I'm not just referencing the commander of that unit but chain of command team).

 

[Fairy1]

No. And I think there has been nearly unanimous condemnation here of the urination incident.

But on a human level, I feel I have to make some allowance for never having been in the shoes of these Marines. Yes, I condemn what they did, largely because it damages our entire effort in the region. At the same time, I allow that I may not fully understand their thinking in that context.

I'm sure the Corps will be under pressure to make examples of these Marines. Frankly, I hope a way can be found so that the punishment is relatively light. Like gitana1 and others here, I recognize that to some degree these young men (I think they were all men) are a product of what we asked them to do; I don't think they should have to bear the full burden of punishment for it.

I really do hope we are not asking our military to urinate on slain enemies <modsnip>

Luckily, there is a highly defined chain of command and I do hope people will have to answer for this incident.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I bet the higher ups have done just as bad or worse in their lifetimes.

JMO

 

[Kat]

Probably kimber, they just didn't get caught lol.