Marines Caught Urinating on Dead Bodies

[Emma Peel]

When they get back to the states they are given a handful of prescriptions and sent on their way.

Then they sit around all day and watch videos they made like this.

At least that was the case with my son in-law before he died in his sleep from his prescriptions.

OMG Doc, that is so sad. I'm sorry your family went through that. Thanks for sharing.

There's a young man in our lives who has returned from his many tours and is trying to get a life together. Been trying to get his life together for 2 years now. But he's really not the same person he used to be. He's a shaking mess, and his thinking is not clear. His hands shake very badly. He has facial tics he didn't have before. His eyes are not bright the way they used to be.

Like he used to do - before he went to war, he comes over to our house - unannounced - and just sits at our kitchen table, relaxes and talks. He is always welcome here, but now I really worry about him. He has pride, and he doesn't want us to worry, so I have to worry behind his back. When he's here, he just wants his little sandwich and to chat a bit. He took shrapnel to the arm and the leg. Says he's lucky and he's fine, though. He tells us about all the things he's going to do to get his life together. When he comes to visit again a month later, we ask about his plans, and he's done none of those things, with excuses for why none of those things worked out.

I sensed it was upsetting him each time he came - when we asked about if he'd actually had luck with this or that. So, we've stopped asking about his previous plans, and just listen to his new plans that he likes to talk about.

We don't really know how to help him. He doesn't ever need money - he gets some kind of disability payment. He just wants to talk, so ... we listen. When I see his car pull up, I run to the living room and get his picture (from after boot camp) and put it right on our kitchen counter, so he knows we're proud of him and he's very very welcome to just come in and sit. (I keep it in the living room where it's safe, otherwise.) OMG, that picture. That young man, so full of pride and hope, light in those bright eyes, ready to go off to serve his country.

That young man must be in there somewhere, but it sure seems he hasn't been able to come home yet. Not all of him, anyway.

Anyway, Doc, I never thought to ask him if he's on meds and that's why his hands shake. I'm thinking now ... that's gotta be it. So - thanks again for sharing about your son-in-law. I may get up the nerve next visit to ask some more questions. But then again, I may just let him sit in our kitchen in peace and talk about his plans... Gosh, I wish I knew the right thing to do for him ... he never asks for anything...just a seat at our kitchen table...and an audience to listen to his plans...

 

[OneLostGrl]

When they get back to the states they are given a handful of prescriptions and sent on their way.

Then they sit around all day and watch videos they made like this.

At least that was the case with my son in-law before he died in his sleep from his prescriptions.

:hug: So sorry for your loss

 

[Fairy1]

I bet the higher ups have done just as bad or worse in their lifetimes.

JMO

That doesn't make it right. IMO.

 

[OneLostGrl]

OMG Doc, that is so sad. I'm sorry your family went through that. Thanks for sharing.

There's a young man in our lives who has returned from his many tours and is trying to get a life together. Been trying to get his life together for 2 years now. But he's really not the same person he used to be. He's a shaking mess, and his thinking is not clear. His hands shake very badly. He has facial tics he didn't have before. His eyes are not bright the way they used to be.

Like he used to do - before he went to war, he comes over to our house - unannounced - and just sits at our kitchen table, relaxes and talks. He is always welcome here, but now I really worry about him. He has pride, and he doesn't want us to worry, so I have to worry behind his back. When he's here, he just wants his little sandwich and to chat a bit. He took shrapnel to the arm and the leg. Says he's lucky and he's fine, though. He tells us about all the things he's going to do to get his life together. When he comes to visit again a month later, we ask about his plans, and he's done none of those things, with excuses for why none of those things worked out.

I sensed it was upsetting him each time he came - when we asked about if he'd actually had luck with this or that. So, we've stopped asking about his previous plans, and just listen to his new plans that he likes to talk about.

We don't really know how to help him. He doesn't ever need money - he gets some kind of disability payment. He just wants to talk, so ... we listen. When I see his car pull up, I run to the living room and get his picture (from after boot camp) and put it right on our kitchen counter, so he knows we're proud of him and he's very very welcome to just come in and sit. (I keep it in the living room where it's safe, otherwise.) OMG, that picture. That young man, so full of pride and hope, light in those bright eyes, ready to go off to serve his country.

That young man must be in there somewhere, but it sure seems he hasn't been able to come home yet. Not all of him, anyway.

Anyway, Doc, I never thought to ask him if he's on meds and that's why his hands shake. I'm thinking now ... that's gotta be it. So - thanks again for sharing about your son-in-law. I may get up the nerve next visit to ask some more questions. But then again, I may just let him sit in our kitchen in peace and talk about his plans... Gosh, I wish I knew the right thing to do for him ... he never asks for anything...just a seat at our kitchen table...and an audience to listen to his plans...

*cry* You are a good soul

 

[Odyssey]

A couple years ago in my neck of the woods, an armed robber broke into a 90 year old man's house. The 90 year old man happened to have a gun, and shot the robber, killing him.

I generally do not believe in killing, but the first thing that came to mind was, "It served him right."

I do not think that urinating on someone's body is an honorable thing to do... and we may never know the whole story of whose bodies these were or what led up to it... but if they were trying to kill American soldiers, I think that right there, they gave up any right to be treated respectfully by them.

 

[Nova]

I really do hope we are not asking our military to urinate on slain enemies <modsnip>

Luckily, there is a highly defined chain of command and I do hope people will have to answer for this incident.

I trust we are not asking servicemen and women to desecrate bodies. I never meant to imply that such orders were given.

But we have a war that is or will soon be the longest war in our history, a war with no apparent end in sight. And it has been fought in a context where it is difficult to impossible to tell friend from foe. AND many divisions are on their third or fourth tour of duty in the Near East (including reserve units that never thought they would be sent overseas in the first place).

That is a context that gives birth to breaches of decorum and even atrocities. And that's what I meant when I said we all share some blame here (ETA even if one agrees the Afghan war is a just one).

 

[Nova]

A couple years ago in my neck of the woods, an armed robber broke into a 90 year old man's house. The 90 year old man happened to have a gun, and shot the robber, killing him.

I generally do not believe in killing, but the first thing that came to mind was, "It served him right."

I do not think that urinating on someone's body is an honorable thing to do... and we may never know the whole story of whose bodies these were or what led up to it... but if they were trying to kill American soldiers, I think that right there, they gave up any right to be treated respectfully by them.

The problem with your analogy is that from the point of view of many Afghans, Americans are the "armed robber" and Afghans are the "90 year old man". It is, after all, their house that has been invaded.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

That doesn't make it right. IMO.

I never said it did.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

emma peel: I started by calling our local "Vet Center" - centers operated by the VA for talk and counseling if desired. They will talk to you, as a family member or interested party to a veteran.

That then led to us going in to "check them out". Yes, there was resistance, but eventually we went. That led to us attending "couples counseling" with two trained, credentialed counselors, the man also a combat vet. The woman was not a vet, but was a certified family counselor. Sessions included the four of us.

They wanted my husband to attend a veteran's group that they conducted, but he chose not to do so. They also recommended that he look for and join a veteran's association specific to his service and we found one online and he joined. We ended up going to several of their "reunions" over the years and he established several supportive friendships with men who had "been there" and had also been through what he had.
Other than me, these are the ONLY people he would ever talk to about it.

I know what you mean about the spark in the eyes. And while that type of spark may never fully come back - because that innocence is lost now - there is hope for peace and joy in the future. But, no, I don't think they can ever go back to what they once were.

What you are describing surely sounds like PTSD to me. There are many manifestations of this syndrome. Just sitting and listening is the right thing to do. But it sounds like you have recognized that this young man needs more. Sometimes a loving, interested, non-judgemental person in their life can help them to get the help they need.

Oh, and be aware, they always say "No way" many times before they go for help.

We received really decent service from our VA Vet Center. I was very careful on checking out the education and credentials of the counselors. I have talked to others from different areas of the country who did not receive the same quality of service that we did.
You will get a feel for this, believe me. Also, all of this is at no cost.

 

[chissus]

These are kids that did something dumb, just like kids do all the time. How can we ask them to respect someone we have taught them to kill?

 

[MarthaM]

These are kids that did something dumb, just like kids do all the time. How can we ask them to respect someone we have taught them to kill?

I thought that on their report on this last night on ABC News, they mentioned that one of the participants (or maybe more than one) was in his mid-20s and had been in the Marines for several years. Did anyone else see that? They were talking about how much training these guys would have had over the years they were in the military.

Just wondering about that and whether the label of 'kids' would apply to any or all of them.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

I remain on the fence about this situation. I see and understand both sides. I wish that they hadn't done this, but they did. Do I condone this behavior? No. I will, however, continue to show my appreciation and support for the men and women who serve in the armed forces and for keeping me and mine safe.

Loyalty above all else, except honor.

 

[Emma Peel]

emma peel: I started by calling our local "Vet Center" - centers operated by the VA for talk and counseling if desired. They will talk to you, as a family member or interested party to a veteran.

That then led to us going in to "check them out". Yes, there was resistance, but eventually we went. That led to us attending "couples counseling" with two trained, credentialed counselors, the man also a combat vet. The woman was not a vet, but was a certified family counselor. Sessions included the four of us.

They wanted my husband to attend a veteran's group that they conducted, but he chose not to do so. They also recommended that he look for and join a veteran's association specific to his service and we found one online and he joined. We ended up going to several of their "reunions" over the years and he established several supportive friendships with men who had "been there" and had also been through what he had.
Other than me, these are the ONLY people he would ever talk to about it.

I know what you mean about the spark in the eyes. And while that type of spark may never fully come back - because that innocence is lost now - there is hope for peace and joy in the future. But, no, I don't think they can ever go back to what they once were.

What you are describing surely sounds like PTSD to me. There are many manifestations of this syndrome. Just sitting and listening is the right thing to do. But it sounds like you have recognized that this young man needs more. Sometimes a loving, interested, non-judgemental person in their life can help them to get the help they need.

Oh, and be aware, they always say "No way" many times before they go for help.

We received really decent service from our VA Vet Center. I was very careful on checking out the education and credentials of the counselors. I have talked to others from different areas of the country who did not receive the same quality of service that we did.
You will get a feel for this, believe me. Also, all of this is at no cost.

This is wonderful to learn about AlwaysShocked. Great info.

We are not military family - we have just been a long-time surrogate family to this young man (from our neighborhood). So we'd not have known that the VA will talk to close friends of Vets had you not explained as much. His mother/sister relocated out of state years ago, so ... this is not something they're here able help him with. Thanks so much for taking the time to make these suggestions. :tyou:

 

[Nova]

These are kids that did something dumb, just like kids do all the time. How can we ask them to respect someone we have taught them to kill?

What we should ask them to do is to respect the feelings of the families of those they are forced to kill. And to respect that our mission in Afghanistan is to win allies, not to make more enemies.

 

[tlstcb]

I do not agree with what these young men did. If they was not where they was at, they may not agree with it either. I don't know what mind set they had to be in to pull the trigger and take someones life. I would imagine minutes before this was done they was in fear for their lives. I don't know how many friends they have lost during their time of service. How many family members they have tried to comfort. I get angry when I read about an innocent child being murdered. These young men need help with their anger not more reason to be angry. They signed up to protect and help our country and that is what I think they deserve in return, help. Its easy to judge from the comfort of your home with your friends and family save.

 

[Trident]

A couple years ago in my neck of the woods, an armed robber broke into a 90 year old man's house. The 90 year old man happened to have a gun, and shot the robber, killing him.

I generally do not believe in killing, but the first thing that came to mind was, "It served him right."

I do not think that urinating on someone's body is an honorable thing to do... and we may never know the whole story of whose bodies these were or what led up to it... but if they were trying to kill American soldiers, I think that right there, they gave up any right to be treated respectfully by them.

So, you kill a man/men in their own country, on their own soil, then pee on their bodies. Nice - honor and integrity at it's finest. Is this what America has come down to?

My opinion only

 

[Trident]

I remain on the fence about this situation. I see and understand both sides. I wish that they hadn't done this, but they did. Do I condone this behavior? No. I will, however, continue to show my appreciation and support for the men and women who serve in the armed forces and for keeping me and mine safe.

Loyalty above all else, except honor.

BBM - Safe from what exactly? Maybe you can tell me why our young men and women are in Afghanistan in the first place?

 

[Nova]

BBM - Safe from what exactly? Maybe you can tell me why our young men and women are in Afghanistan in the first place?

They were there in the first place to get Bin Laden. They were there in the second place to destabilize the Taliban so that it couldn't foster terrorist strikes.

I don't know what they are doing there now. I realize the Taliban is still active, so whatever we are doing doesn't seem to be working.

 

[Nova]

I do not agree with what these young men did. If they was not where they was at, they may not agree with it either. I don't know what mind set they had to be in to pull the trigger and take someones life. I would imagine minutes before this was done they was in fear for their lives. I don't know how many friends they have lost during their time of service. How many family members they have tried to comfort. I get angry when I read about an innocent child being murdered. These young men need help with their anger not more reason to be angry. They signed up to protect and help our country and that is what I think they deserve in return, help. Its easy to judge from the comfort of your home with your friends and family save.

tlstcb, I thought a bit before responding to your post. I think you can see from my posts that I am not unsympathetic regarding the difficult situations in which the Marines in question found themselves.

But a fundamental principle of our republic is that American civilians DO judge the military, whether or not we have combat experience ourselves. It's that principle which separates us from fascist regimes.

 

[TrackerSam]

My comment was more directed at the 'powers that be' that might be contemplating disciplinary action against these soldiers, rather than the general public that may be against the killing part too. The same powers that trained them to kill and ordered them to kill but now may be discussing their punishment for peeing.

As a veteran of Viet Nam and more importantly, someone who's been through the training, in order to be able to train someone to kill, the enemy must be dehumanized. The enemy is always spoken of in derogatory terms such as gook, kink, gerry etc. I don't know what name is currently being used but I'm sure there are some, it's a necessary part of the training. They were pissing on something less than human, in their minds. The government created them and any severe punishment would be wrong IMO.