Marines Caught Urinating on Dead Bodies

[Cubby]

Acts of this nature have, in war, taken place since time immemorial. It's shocking, but not unusual. What separates this case from most others is this: they seemingly know their actions are being recorded, and it makes no difference.

Their deed is not the private action of battle-hardened, battle-benumbed, soldiers disrespecting, after the height of raging battle, the enemy dead - an enemy that, quite possibly, has been responsible for the deaths of their fellow soldiers, their buddies.

Rather, this seems to have been recorded as an act of entertainment for an imagined audience back home - this is battle reduced to folly, war reduced to a "Jackass"-like series of harsh, farcical episodes in which disrespect is not merely a tangent of the main action, but, rather, in itself, in its boastful brain-deadening arrogance, the whole message, the whole point of the thing.

And we wonder why we are not loved all over the world. With this sort of thing, as with the incidents at Abu Ghraib, one can well understand why our claims to "helping spread democracy" are not taken seriously.

God help those of our soldiers who in the future will be taken prisoners of war.

Excellent post! :clap: :clap: :clap:

I don't think it is the act I find so appalling, but the recording of the incident, as if to enjoy and relive it over and over and over. Why else would anyone record something so horrific? IMO, it is on par with the sick perps who keep memento's of their crime as some sort of trophy?

Did the <unusual persons> who recorded and uploaded this for entertainment purposes even give a thought to how this might affect those soldiers who are taken prisoner of war in the future.

Slam away, but I think they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible and imo, kick 'em out of the military. They are a disgrace to the entire US. And no, just like I don't make excuses for victims of abuse who go on to abuse their children, etc. etc. I am not going to participate in the making up of excuses for such horrendous behavior.

:twocents:

 

[animlzrule]

Funny how hardly anyone has a problem with the same Marine unit shooting high explosive rounds at the enemy, filling their chests full of bullets, blowing their heads off, and yet we ring our hands and whine about urinating on a dead body.

Soldiers have done this sine the United States had an armed forces. In the Civil War Union troops cut off ears of rebels and kept them as souvenirs. In WWII the same basic things happen. During WWII my father and an uncle talked of soldiers sticking things in the mouths of German soldiers and also urinating on the bodies of SS troops. In Vietnam the First Air Cavalry pried open the mouths of dead VC and inserted the ace of spades as a calling card.

War is hell. I have been in one. People do things to their enemies that they would never do in any other setting. The reason that many whiners are offended by this is because of the digital age where there are photos and videos. Why aren't they offended or speak out about the four contractors who were set afire and left to hang on a bridge in Iraq by our enemy? Why wasn't their an outcry by liberals about our soldiers and civilians being beheaded by these savages?

Anything to hurt the reputation of the United States and these people are all in.

Well, I don't know where you live, but I've witnessed and participated in plenty of protests where thousands of people were protesting and are overwhelmingly offended by the actions of BOTH sides. This isn't a liberal or rightwing thing. As Americans we should all be offended and appalled that our soldiers debase themselves during a time when they have an opportunity to present themselves as representatives of our nation. We should be expecting them to do their job professionally and with some degree of responsibility and recognition of the gravity of the circumstances. As for the rest of the examples of savagery perpetrated during wars throughout history, so what? It's not right, it's not commendable, it's not something to take pride in. As a society we are supposed to be EVOLVING.

 

[CHICANA]

Thank you for the first-hand account, Sam. It is exactly as I feared.

And I imagine that "dehumanizing the enemy" is even more a problem when friend cannot be distinguished from foe. If you dehumanize the "bad" Afghans, how do you avoid having similar feelings about the "good" Afghans?

I think they're easily distinguishable.

The ones that shoot at you and kill your friends are the "bad" Afghans ?

 

[Nova]

I think they're easily distinguishable.

The ones that shoot at you and kill your friends are the "bad" Afghans ?

You're kidding, right? I don't know why you assume you are still alive to make such distinctions after somebody shoots at you.

 

[noZme]

haven't checked accuracy but this came in my email today from 2 different friends.

Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), a former Army lieutenant colonel, sends THE WEEKLY STANDARD an email commenting on the Marines' video, and has given us permission to publish it.

&#8220;I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu . Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.

&#8220;All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq ?

&#8220;The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.

&#8220;As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.&#8221;

 

[CHICANA]

You're kidding, right? I don't know why you assume you are still alive to make such distinctions after somebody shoots at you.

Nope. Not kidding.

I'm not sure I understand. Not everybody that gets shot at gets hit and not everyone that gets hit dies.

 

[Fairy1]

Wow. It's really interesting to see the differing views on this particular incident.

To those who have no problem with it, I ask you, what is the worse thing that a human being can do to another human being? IMO, kill them.

Yes, some of our soldiers are trained to kill. That's their job. And if the enemy is attempting to kill them (which is also THEIR job), they are well within their rights. I can understand being trained to dehumanize the enemy in order to kill them and I would think peeing on them BEFORE you blow them away would make more sense in that regard.

The question here is, (IMO) WHAT is the purpose of peeing on the enemies you have just killed? What is the message in that? They're DEAD! They're not going to be walking away with a message or lesson learned, right?

So, WHAT WAS THE POINT of these US Marines performing and recording this act? Are ALL of our soldiers psychologically damaged? Are they trying to send a message to their own commanders? Do they want to be discharged? Or was it just some stupid, juvenile stunt?

WHAT was the point?

 

[animlzrule]

haven't checked accuracy but this came in my email today from 2 different friends.

Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), a former Army lieutenant colonel, sends THE WEEKLY STANDARD an email commenting on the Marines' video, and has given us permission to publish it.

“I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu . Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.

“All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq ?

“The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.

“As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.”

BBM Really???? Dude has a REALLY bad memory. Or he doesn't pay attention to the news. What a disingenuous statement......

 

[Lava]

The way I look at it is this: If the situation was reversed, the American people would be outraged. Just because Americans are the ones doing it, doesn't mean its okay. While I do think this sort of behavior is caused by the grueling life these soldiers day to day I think it is up to our military to teach soldiers to respect prisoners and the dead. If they are willing to die to protect this country they need to be willing to show restraint to protect us too.

 

[Nova]

Nope. Not kidding.

I'm not sure I understand. Not everybody that gets shot at gets hit and not everyone that gets hit dies.

The point is that in a guerrilla war, your enemies don't conveniently wear matching uniforms and helmets. They don't travel and fight in regular formations. Yes, once the shooting starts, it provides a clue as to where the shooters' loyalties lie; but there is no guarantee any individual American will survive that initial shooting long enough to make that call.

As far as our soldiers can see at a glance, EVERY Afghan is a potential threat, yet EVERY Afghan is simultaneously to be protected and befriended, since that is our mission there The stress must be enormous and it's a kind of stress that is different from that of "declared" wars.

We know from Vietnam that such stress and confusion can lead to thinking of every native as a "gook", and in extreme cases to atrocities against native women and children. I see no reason why Afghanistan wouldn't present a similar problem. (FWIW, police in some neighborhoods face a similar problem with similar results.)

My point is simply to acknowledge the problem. I'm not saying it excuses the desecration of bodies, but it might help to make such actions more understandable. This is only one reason why our soldiers are returning with never before seen rates of PTSD.

 

[Nova]

Wow. It's really interesting to see the differing views on this particular incident.

To those who have no problem with it, I ask you, what is the worse thing that a human being can do to another human being? IMO, kill them.

Yes, some of our soldiers are trained to kill. That's their job. And if the enemy is attempting to kill them (which is also THEIR job), they are well within their rights. I can understand being trained to dehumanize the enemy in order to kill them and I would think peeing on them BEFORE you blow them away would make more sense in that regard.

The question here is, (IMO) WHAT is the purpose of peeing on the enemies you have just killed? What is the message in that? They're DEAD! They're not going to be walking away with a message or lesson learned, right?

So, WHAT WAS THE POINT of these US Marines performing and recording this act? Are ALL of our soldiers psychologically damaged? Are they trying to send a message to their own commanders? Do they want to be discharged? Or was it just some stupid, juvenile stunt?

WHAT was the point?

Fairy, I can only guess from afar, but I think it's a release of tension expressed toward someone who has frightened you very, very badly.

In the Iliad, Achilles kills Hector (who earlier killed Achilles' boyfriend, Patroclus), then ties the body to Achilles' chariot and drags it in the dirt seven times around the walls of Troy. Achilles is "specially" insulting Hector (and Hector's relatives in the Trojan royal family), but he's also blowing off steam after an epic hand-to-hand combat.

Only after Achilles calms down is he convinced to allow Hector's father to come and collect his son's remains for burial.

A fictional example, but one that was considered "history" when it was written and recited to people who knew all about combat. I think we can assume it struck them as generally true to human nature.

 

[Nova]

The way I look at it is this: If the situation was reversed, the American people would be outraged. Just because Americans are the ones doing it, doesn't mean its okay. While I do think this sort of behavior is caused by the grueling life these soldiers day to day I think it is up to our military to teach soldiers to respect prisoners and the dead. If they are willing to die to protect this country they need to be willing to show restraint to protect us too.

As someone who tends toward overly long posts (okay, everybody stop laughing now!), I can only tip my hat to Lava's succinct yet comprehensive account of the issue.